RE: .BNP Members Leak.

RE: .BNP Members Leak. (Full Version)

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colouredin -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 1:39:30 PM)
I have known some people, people who are in their 50's and have voted liberal all their lives who have said things like well the BNP make good points. I think its less to do wit actually agreeing with them and more to do with ttal frustration with british politics and the desire for radical change.

LadyEllen -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 1:40:33 PM)
You'd be alright Darias; one of their policies is to get out of the EU (oh, and for you to do so too) and for us to form a Federation of the British Isles (or some such). Yep. I can see the Irish swapping the EU and all their gains of the last century in favour of that. Although I think it would be nice to have the 5 Nations Football Tournament back. E

littlemissmira -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 1:42:43 PM)
out the racist and closed minded ones this girl says!

colouredin -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 1:43:55 PM)
or better yet, more education for those with closed minds? Normally they are closed due to ignorance.

piratecommander -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 1:43:58 PM)
You don't need one Pirate

GreedyTop -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 1:44:55 PM)
well, I am trying to get an understanding of British politics.....

colouredin -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 1:47:17 PM)
ahh its not that hard GT, the people who are meant to be left are right of centre near the people who are meant to be right and the people who are meant to be centre are left of centre and we have a first past the post system so if you are a raving lefty in a right wing area your vote pretty much doesnt count

Darias -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 1:47:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen You'd be alright Darias; one of their policies is to get out of the EU (oh, and for you to do so too) and for us to form a Federation of the British Isles (or some such). Yep. I can see the Irish swapping the EU and all their gains of the last century in favour of that. Although I think it would be nice to have the 5 Nations Football Tournament back. E and give up my pretty coloured passport? my abilty to work in most countrys on the continent? my shiney new roads funded by the national development plan supported by the EU? not to mention watching my government getting spanked by the EU parliment over things like carbon footprints etc? oh Hell no besides it would never work. no matter how any irish citizen feels about the UK at the moment.... try and convince them to join what amounts to a revival of the british empire...... I`d hate to be the UK ambassador sent to deliver that offer quote: ORIGINAL: littlemissmira out the racist and closed minded ones this girl says! and welcome to the boards mira... what better way to get involved than to begin with a cry of "down with that sorta thing" (in a terribly polite and submissive manner im sure)

LadyEllen -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 1:47:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin I have known some people, people who are in their 50's and have voted liberal all their lives who have said things like well the BNP make good points. I think its less to do wit actually agreeing with them and more to do with ttal frustration with british politics and the desire for radical change. Agreed. The BNPs best card is exactly this dissatisfaction, this frustration at being ignored and told whats best for you, based on evidence that many in their daily lives know to be suspect. As soon as the BNP identify something like this, they play to it - manipulating that frustration towards support for some aspect of their policies - which of course then means support for all of their policies and their standpoint. But this is more a failure of mainstream politics than anything the BNP can take credit for. Just another reason for the BNP to be given a public grilling in open debate is for us all to make the mainstream listen and do something about this frustration - perhaps this is the reason the mainstream avoid the BNP though, for fear of being asked difficult questions? E

colouredin -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 1:53:58 PM)
I would say that to have the debate would mean having to admit to many shortcomings in the current climate. Wales' version plays te same card as the BNP (oh ajnd bigs up how the English oppress them) it feeds on disatisfaction and racist myths. I think there have been so many failures of our government in so many areas certainly for the last few years of labour (our knights in shining armour) I would say that Brown should be given credit for his handling of the economy but to be honest blair has done some serious damage to this country with his stting on the fence attitude to everything. governent agencies are so full of red tape so as not to offend anyone that thing skeep going wrong, and the people who seem to be victems of all the mess are the vulnerable people that most need protecting. Its horrible to watch. Its no wonder that people are searching for people offering REAL change rather than setting up a web cam to 'relate to the young people' or simply fighting amoung themselves rather than asking what people want. I dont support the BNP never will and I dont want to give that impression, but I can see why they have emerged and are gaining popularity (just as the Nazis did, for the same reasons) and something is going to have to change eventually.

piratecommander -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 2:21:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darias soooooooooooo pretty much.... no foreigners allowed? anyone explain to them the population of the british isles about 10000 years ago?? or 5000? do members go through genetic testing and extensive family tree investigations? to the other Irishers on CM.... please tell me we dont have our own version? I've tried explaining the population/genetic thing to these kind of people before..........talk about the celts and they think its a football game. Pirate

Darias -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 2:28:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: piratecommander I've tried explaining the population/genetic thing to these kind of people before..........talk about the celts and they think its a football game. Pirate ive had simular experiences in Canada and the US .... my response was along the lines of " so you dislike mexican etc immigrants... wait a minute didnt you tell me your great great grandad was from ireland like 5 minutes ago " killed the conversation for some reason

gumshoe -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 2:47:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark If there is nothing apparently inherently wrong with the people you support, why would it be such an issue for you to admit your affiliations? I agree the Blame the Non-whites Party is a particularly unpleasant bunch of crack-pots and whingers who deserve all the scorn they get. The problem with letting all and sundry getting hold of the membership lists of such outfits is that how do we really know there isn't any actual risk that some of the inevitable death threats may come true? Also there other nutters out there, such as Red Watch, who target members of legitmate political parties. If the membership lists of such parties were similarly made public, it would be a nutters wet dream.

Evility -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 3:47:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen The reason its serious (well, the second reason maybe) is that BNP members and activists get targeted by left wing groups for harassment and violence, justified by them as being necessary to resist the BNP. And that was so painfully obvious in the news article I'm amazed that the OP even asked the question, not once but twice.

RainydayNE -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 4:02:08 PM)
the BNP is scary. well, atleast when i was in scarborough they were. that's been years ago, though but still... scary dudes =p

RealityLicks -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 4:17:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gumshoe there other nutters out there, such as Red Watch, who target members of legitmate political parties. If the membership lists of such parties were similarly made public, it would be a nutters wet dream. I doubt anyone is going to give these people the propaganda coup they crave by assaulting or even killing them. The worse they can expect is losing their jobs. Many investigations are going on but so far I know of only one person who has been sacked for being on this list. He was a journalist and I suspect no-one would work with him once this came out. More sackings, please! I appreciate the privacy arguments and the BNP's freedom to exist. But what about my freedom to boycott the shops and businesses of racists, who hate me but are too cowardly to say so to my face?

LadyEllen -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 4:36:05 PM)
I'm sorry RL, but the principle involved here is just plain dangerous. The idea that a person can be disenfranchised entirely from the socio-economic system by virtue of their views and beliefs is abhorrent - equally abhorrent with the views and beliefs held in this case. That such disenfranchisement will very likely occur in this case, then we are setting a course whereby any group whose views and beliefs are believed to be abhorrent can be treated in a similar way in future. The problem is that what is acceptable and what is abhorrent can so easily vary over time as events unfold or opinions are manipulated. We must have freedom of conscience and freedom of expression - no exceptions, for if we start to make exceptions then we thereby set a precedent that can only serve to undo that which protects us. Where consience and expression breach the law by way of the actions of those holding them, including our hate crime laws and laws concerning the incitement and solicitation of offences, then it is a different matter. But it is wholly wrong and deeply dangerous to think to condemn people purely on the basis of their thoughts, however much we might disagree with them. E

RealityLicks -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 4:39:14 PM)
Sigh. I never said that BNP members should be "disenfranchised entirely". I said that I wanted the information to allow me to boycott using their firms wherever possible. That is for my conscience and mine alone.

LadyEllen -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 4:44:14 PM)
You called for sackings RL. Should we then all walk around with badges on, showing our various affiliations so that others may judge from them whether they wish to associate with us, deal with us, employ us? I dare say I might be speaking against government policy, but thought is not yet a crime as I understand it. E

RealityLicks -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 5:03:37 PM)
Yes and I still want sackings. My view is that being a racist is not simply an unpleasant social failing, like farting in lifts. But I am an individual and have not asked you or anyone else to join my boycott -- so what on earth has it to do with you? Do you similarly insist that BNP members shop in ethnic stores when they probably prefer to use shops and services they approve of? As to badges: my badge is my scuplted and sleek black body; the BNP don't need badges because I have their addresses on my hard drive instead. You're never going to understand people by telling them what they think instead of asking them, Ellen.

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