RE: .BNP Members Leak.

RE: .BNP Members Leak. (Full Version)

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piratecommander -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 5:47:37 PM)
If that list fell into the hands of a Pirate ;) who knows......... I suspect that many BNP (allegedly) shop regularly for ethnic goods.........then hide them in the same sort of places that you hide ... errrrrr....... your ....errr things you need to hide when being raided by the Peelers or immediately before the BNP communal gathering takes place in their kitchen. Then after that they eat curry and celebrate the "Empire" (or if out on the town currying it...swear blindly that they only went into an ethnic restaurant to "take the piss" out of the ethnics,then take the piss out of the ethnics to the point where the "law enforcement officers" (is that OK monkey ?) arrive to escort them..........not to the cells as you might be led by legislation to believe would be commonly appropriate....... but to a Taxi rank and make sure the vermin are not "too cold" and that they do not get "intimidated" or "harrased" while they wait ' or even directly home "to prevent a breach of the peace" Sometimes on a cold night in a Taxi queue..........................Nah .... not even then do I envy such vermin Pirate

piratecommander -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 6:11:48 PM)
We know that there is a real risk of death threats and of them coming true......so do they.....they know this from their OWN. If they are so keen to hide now...........when they get into power (in their dreams) will they pass a law saying they can all wear pointy white hoods to "preserve thier privacy" ? Pirate

philosophy -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/19/2008 7:25:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: piratecommander when they get into power (in their dreams) will they pass a law saying they can all wear pointy white hoods to "preserve thier privacy" ? ...i hope so, ought to make them easier to see though nightscopes. While normally i'm all about fair treatment for all, i can't help thinking that a few BNP people feeling threatened with physical violence is just karma at work.......

tweedydaddy -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 2:35:54 AM)
I would not vote for the BNP if the alernative would be to have to French kiss a billy goat. The party is a non entity, even less relevant to anything in the real world than the liberal democrats. The BNP is like the game second life, only for bigots. It can't count for anything other than as a wasp sting in the ass to wake up politics now and again to the fact that there are nutters out there. But it provides a useful bogeyman to remind us of what could be. It could best be defined as a political asylum, and to punish people for having anything to do with it goes against my grain. Every one has the right to hold whatever views they like, although they should be challenged, people still have the right to hold those views. If they are denied the right to have a voice, how can anyone possibly put them right? Being named and shamed will only make martyrs of them and cement their hostility. Nothing good comes of a pogrom of whatever shade.

meatcleaver -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 2:50:27 AM)
The real problem people have to wrestle with is do people who are members of a legal political party stop having human rights because the majority don't like the aims of the party? If we take away the human rights of BNP members, have we any right to complain at their aims which are in my view reprehensible but don't (though I'm sure they would like to) take away the rights of others. There is race hate laws in place and the BNP keeps the right side of them. Its nothing new in Britain to be prevented from certain jobs for being a member of a political party though as a country we like to pretend that's not true. Should we list political parties that being a member will prevent you taking up certain jobs? Actually I would imagine the British establishment prefering BNP members to Green party members. A little racism doesn't after all interfer with commerce where environmental issues does.

Darias -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 2:56:25 AM)
Ideally in a perfect world that would be true meat ... though in the case of the BNP wouldnt the political and personal beliefs of its members cause havok were they involved in certain jobs would a BNP member who was also a judge still be able to give fair and just rulings in court ? would a BNP member whos a police officer deal with complaints differently because they were called to a domestic dispute involving a nigerian couple ? would having a doctor working the ER who is a BNP member place injured foreign nationals at risk ? atleast the green party wont be able to treat customers etc differently based on how much they polute ... i mean i dont wear a badge with my carbon footprint rating on it

RealityLicks -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 3:22:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy Nothing good comes of a pogrom of whatever shade. That's right. But no-one is calling for a pogrom. These are BNP members not all BNP voters. It's important to distinguish between the instinctive dislike most people have for racists and trying to maintain standards in public services. In the first case, there's the fairly common desire for people to wish them boils and pestilence. The second is quite different. Senior civil servants in particular - and public servants in general - are banned from membership of the main political parties. It effectively protects the individual and teh institution from charges of bias and other improprieties. They can vote for whom they like - of course - but they may not campaign or be members etc. We live in a democracy, one which has mandated most (not all) public services to actively promote equality as being in the greater good. If you work for such a service (or are served by a trade union) which prohibits membership of groups with a racist philosophy you should respect that ruling. Those who do not think equality is in the greater good can and should campaign openly. There is no gulag for BNP supporters, they are quite safe to do so - but if you hold extremist views you have to accept that certain jobs will be closed to you because they are funded by us all, in all our interests.

RCdc -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 4:59:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Evility quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen The reason its serious (well, the second reason maybe) is that BNP members and activists get targeted by left wing groups for harassment and violence, justified by them as being necessary to resist the BNP. And that was so painfully obvious in the news article I'm amazed that the OP even asked the question, not once but twice. If you did not grasp it was rhetorical question, I cannot assist you there. I am and always have been of the belief that if you cannot take the flack and be prepared to take risks for what you believe in, then do not be a part of it. And yeah, that includes dying. Otherwise it is just a half hearted belief with no substantial basis. the.dark.

Aneirin -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 5:29:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: Evility quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen The reason its serious (well, the second reason maybe) is that BNP members and activists get targeted by left wing groups for harassment and violence, justified by them as being necessary to resist the BNP. And that was so painfully obvious in the news article I'm amazed that the OP even asked the question, not once but twice. If you did not grasp it was rhetorical question, I cannot assist you there. I am and always have been of the belief that if you cannot take the flack and be prepared to take risks for what you believe in, then do not be a part of it. And yeah, that includes dying. Otherwise it is just a half hearted belief with no substantial basis. the.dark. I am also of the same belief, it is why I choose not to hide my interest in Kink, for me to do so, would by hypocrisy. Be it family, employer , friends or whoever that knows of my interest, I am ok with it. Those that are aware of my interests, often it is they find the stereotype they once held comes to be nothing when they get to know me. So, being open is also to educate and dispel myths. But those BNP members that have been revealed to be in positions of responsibility over the public, if they have nationalist beliefs, really should they hold their employment positions, I am not talking of booting them out in disgrace, but they themselves should not enter these positions knowing their train of thought, it is hypocritical of them to do so. If the train of thought comes later, they should remove themselves from their positions to follow their beliefs if their belief comes into conflict with their civil duty.

Dargrim -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 5:37:08 AM)
I must say I agree with you fully the.dark. You should always stand up for your beliefs where ever it may lead. Though at the sane time I can see cases where prudence may be called for to avert change later on. However in the BNP's case I am thinking its much more likely to be fear, the intellect governing their cowering. I think people are right about th BNP gaining support through a simple desire to not do things the same way as our Knights in their Shiny Gold Armour of Betrayle (Labour and their new Rich people friends), through as stated previously, the excess of red tape. But also I think it may have something to do with an old desire for some form of National Pride, and sadly they are the only ones who seems to mention it, in case the notion of being British offends. However look at America, for all its faults, ask the varying races within, the vast majority are American and proud to call them selves so. I ask once more why can't we have people realise that skin/religion/ or anything else you care to mention has no inluence on whether they are a part of our Nation, its when they choose to be. Not the most eliquently worded response but I hope someone gets what I meant. Also I am sorry to be unable to remember who said it but I love the idea of badges with political ideologies and affiliations on, just for the confusion mine would give. Fascist Socialist Feminist Humanitarian. Unusual combination isn't it. Would explain butt uni time sadly. Also how do I add a sig if I may ask?

LadyEllen -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 7:03:18 AM)
Given that UKIP is "the BNP for middle England" - according to people of ethnic minorities and sexual/gender minorities who have experienced what goes on behind closed doors at their meetings, (racism, sexism, homophobia et al); Should members and activists for UKIP also be "named and shamed", dismissed from their employments and regarded as outcasts? Now there is as much racist et al propaganda in UKIP official literature as there is in the BNP literature - both are careful to avoid breaking the law, so if we must rely in legal terms on hearsay and circumstantial evidence to condemn BNP members then it is incongruous to avoid similar sources in relation to UKIP and thence its membership. E

UncleNasty -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 7:28:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver What is terribly revealing about this case is that the police seem reluctant to find and prosecute the person who broke the law. I know this practice as "selective enforcement" and see it as very common. It is one of the best ways to keep the unpopular from getting a real voice. And of course, the more laws there are the easier it is to do. In the States it is common for the lower courts to rule against a private citizen and in favor of a coporation, even in bald and obvious contradiction to the laws, rules or process. They know that typically the private citizen will run out of resources before being able to appeal to a higher court so there is little fear of the decision being over turned on appeal. There is also judicial immunity so the justices are not held accountable. Suit can be filed for "color of law" violations, or judicial misconduct, but they rarely gain much traction. Even when proper, even when such has occured, both courts and lawyers are loathe to "attack" one from their own private club. Uncle Nasty

MadAxeman -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 7:35:39 AM)
The BNP has been backpedalling on 'race' for a while now. The shift in attack is towards 'immigrants' and in particular the Polish. Same northern European race as us and therefore the BNP is not racist (according to them). Support for the BNP has ben growing in the south of England for the first time, especially in and around the ports which see immigrants settling in larger numbers. It's difficult to be pro English here anymore without being tagged racist. England and the English only seem to come together during sporting events. It is illegal to display the English flag without proviso. If you apply for anything in this country you can be Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Asian, British, Afro Caribbean or Other. Not English. When working class people of limited world awareness see houses and benefits being given to immigrants (bearing in mind the immigrants need emergency care and provision) while they are on long waiting lists, some rancour follows. This is the seam that the BNP has been mining. English dissatisfaction. I don't believe that there are enough hardcore racists to sustain a sensible electable political party. Ordinary people are being seduced with politics about single issues . There have been other pro English/British parties. UKIP as has been mentioned and the English Democratic Party. However with an open door policy to new members. The suited thugs soon join and drag the whole thing down. The BNP are a necessary evil. We must protect the right to free speech and while they are in the open, they can be engaged and their ideas changed. Now someone will call me a racist, just for explaining some of the detail. That is the kind of thinking that those of us who are politically active and anti fascist are trying to avert.

RCdc -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 7:42:25 AM)
Personally, Lady E, I don't believe that the question should be 'should (insertwhateveraffiliationhere) people be named and shamed' because I do believe in privacy - I'm not certainly not supporting outting peoples address, credit details and email. But rather, 'why would it matter if you are so verhmently supportive of and happy to be part of (insertwhateveraffiliationhere)' does a list with your name on it, matter?'. I support any number of organisations. I'll happily be on support lists for various groups - it just so happens my convictions are based in organisations which promote sexuality, the arts or social/homeless. Yeah I would be pissed if details about what people in that organisation thought of me were printed.(Not sure how many read the list itself). But being named as a supporter? Why not? If there is nothing inherently wrong with the organisation and your not willing to take that risk? Courage in your convictions - or do not bother. the.dark.

RealityLicks -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 7:48:08 AM)
To mention only the most obvious fallacy of Ellen's post: membership. The BNP do not admit black members - unlike UKIP - and they also strongly oppose homosexuality. UKIP absorbed the people stranded by the Tories' dive for Labour's centrist politics and it should be no surprise they are social dinosaurs but they haven't got a stated racist philosophy at the heart of their mission. If they don't allow black people to join, where's the "hearsay" element? Anyone is free to be a bigot but it's great knowing who they are so I can choose whether to give them some of their own medicine. At least I dislike them for who they are and not for a coincidental element of their make-up. Incidentally, there are very few London addresses on the list which suggests that when people actually know each other rather than believing the Daily Heil etc, racist views are far less prevalent.

RCdc -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 7:53:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadAxeman It's difficult to be pro English here anymore without being tagged racist. England and the English only seem to come together during sporting events. It is illegal to display the English flag without proviso. While that is kind of true, not totally. It is illegal to fly any national flag without proviso unless it is on a actual flag pole. And it has to be vertical, not horizontal. the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 7:57:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dargrim Also how do I add a sig if I may ask? Welcome to the forums Dagrim. On the top of the page, click 'My Profile'. Gives you the options for your signiture there. the.dark.

RealityLicks -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 7:59:38 AM)
It's not racist to explain their policies but the views you have outlined are presented uncritically but also as if they are based on truth. Its a bit like listening to someone describe a unicorn - you know they have it "right" but the thing still does not exist. Leaving aside we're talking about the British National Party --Where on earth did you get the idea that displaying the English flag was illegal? There were thousands being flown by Britons of all colours during the last World Cup, from cars and houses. Where were you?

RCdc -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 8:07:26 AM)
It is RL. I was living in Cornwall when it first came about, or at least when I first became aware of it. There was a big thing about it because people were getting fined and told to remove their black and whites, which if you have ever been to Cornwall, you will know it is a huge issue because they fly them everywhere. If you have a bonifide flag pole it is ok. But to display them in windows, on horiziontal poles etc is illegal. It's hardly held up here on individual levels, particularly when there are sporting events and on particular saints days, but business' have to have the right paperwork. There was a big thing a short while back about a pirate flag being flown and the guy not wanting to remove it. the.dark.

MadAxeman -> RE: .BNP Members Leak. (11/20/2008 8:18:16 AM)
In 2006 during the World Cup several councils tried to make their tenants obtain permits to fly flags. The media frenzy by the tabloids led to a relaxation of the rules. You would still need council permission to erect a flagpole outside your house, even in the back garden your neighbour can have it hauled down for blocking their sunlight. Some war veterans in particular cannot understand how pride in the flag they fought for is anti social. My neighbour erects a 7 foot TV in the back garden every football match, halloween, Christmas, firework night, fortnightly barbecue, birthday etc and plays God Save The Queen at full blast when drunk. If only he could have a flag instead...

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