RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats-

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Lockit -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 2:41:05 AM)
LOL I find it funny that the airline thread got hijacked. I know.. I'm sick.

WyldHrt -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 3:22:27 AM)
You and me both, Lockit! V= why should I define something you should already know? sheesh

BBBTBW -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 4:48:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 quote: ORIGINAL: Lynnxz What about the people that feel they are entitled to a seat because they feel claustrophobic... or they want more room just because... or their leg is screwy and they can't sit still? Are you discriminating against them as well? that was a point I made earlier. Given my druthers, I'd rather be the only person on my airplane. why? because I want it to be like that. my ratiocinations are the same as large people who wants two seats. Are airlines discriminating against me because they won't let me ride by myself in a 747 for 500 dollars? By the mentality of a lot of posters in this thread (assuming they cared about thinking objectively, which I doubt is the case), then yes, they are discriminating against me. It just seems that you argue for the sake of argument. The misconception you seem to have is that large people want to have 2 seats, or want to take up more room than is allowed. The fact is that the travel industry has failed to look at the fact that they don't make their accomodations for the average sized person. Large people are not looking for special treatment, people in general are seeking a REASONABLE accomodation for their travel. Bearing in mind that there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. I don't know how tall you are, how large or small you are, what your circumstances are at all. People that don't need REASONABLE accomodations never think anyone needs an accomdation for any reason. No one fits into the societal norm of everything. There will come a time when you will need a REASONABLE accomodation. I hope it is there for you

tazzygirl -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 6:15:19 AM)
Variation you are speaking like a child, demanding what you want, then telling everyone else to "fuck off" now, im not about to do your homework, google bailing out airlines. many, many times an airlines has went to the government, hat in hand, begging for money. and you still want to call them a "private" business? they have taken public money time and time again, even looked to the government for increased taxes and fees. do a bit more homework dear. you have made your own argument moot. congratulations, scholar!

rulemylife -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 7:04:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt Variation- I knew you were gonna go there [:D] My connection dropped whilst I was making a post asking, amongst other things, "and how would you know when the last maintenance on an airlines' planes was done or whether the kitchen of the local bistro was full of roaches?" Requiring such information to be provided would interfere with someone's "private property", no? That said, do you research the cleanliness and food preparation practices of every place you go to eat? Or do you look for the "letter" posted at the entrance, and walk out if it isn't an "A". How would you know if said establishment/ business doesn't serve people of a certain color, creed, whatever so that you could "vote" with your money? I wouldn't mandate that such information to be required (do you really think I haven't stumbled upon such simplistic observations?). however, good companies who want to reassure their customers could release that information on their own. or, if they wanted, they could willingly join an organization that gives out health or safety grades so that the consumer knows that this restaurant or service is better than its competitors so that they make more money. Stumbled upon or blindly crashed into? Let's put a dose of reality into your theories. Are companies going to release any negative information about their operations? Are restaurants going to proudly proclaim they had a massive roach problem but Terminix saved the day? And are you going to have, and spend, the time researching every restaurant you happen to eat in to determine they handle food safely and cleanly? What about your local grocery store? Or every airline to determine who follows proper maintenance and crew training? How about the safety of toys you buy for your children? You are the only one being simplistic in trying to promote your "no government regulations" ideology. Government has a proper role in regulating those things that individuals do not have the time or resources to take upon themselves but which are essential to their safety.

thornhappy -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 8:07:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme I'm going to take a wild guess and say you're into objectivism. I love boys in their 20s who read too much Ayn Rand haha Don't know if he is or not; but I do know that objectivists seem to forget that Ayn Rand wrote fiction. With a capital F. thornhappy

hopelessfool -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 8:32:48 AM)
Normal airline seats are between 25 and 32 inches across. arm rest to arm rest.so its really about 23 to 30 A womans size 6 is 30 inches. Your telling me that only people to size sixs are fit and anyone an 8 or a 10 is to fat to ride? Bs.

missturbation -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 8:55:21 AM)
I find this a little hard to believe. Im a size 14 and i fit into plane seats with room to spare. I can curl up in them and go to sleep real easy.

GreedyTop -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 9:11:25 AM)
Is that 14 US or UK size, Misst?

missturbation -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 9:19:45 AM)
UK 14. No idea what that equates to in America.

camille65 -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 9:20:53 AM)
I'm absolutely miserable in an airline seat even though I'm 'just' a size 12. The fibro, lupus and tmj end up forcing me to take a full day of medication and rest after traveling. One of the times that I flew to Beijing there was an obese woman next to me. She had to raise the arm thingie because she literally did not fit in just her seat, so she ended up sharing mine for 19 hours. It was awful, completely miserable especially once one of her feet moved into my foot space. She should not have been relegated to a single seat, she physically needed more space (and ended up taking it, my space). I do my utmost to see that I have an aisle seat, mentioning that I use a cane and that it is quite hard for me to travel. More than not it makes no difference to the airline. More than not there hasn't been the scheduled wheelchair or courtesy cart so that I could make my next flight. Ohboy I miss the old days of air travel, when folks dressed nicely and the seats were bigger. Real food was served (none of that 3$ bag of cracker crap) with cloth napkins. Heh of course I was a lot smaller back then but the seats really were bigger! The airlines are trying to maximize the seating, cramming as many passengers in as possible with this being the result. I wish that passengers as a whole would get together and demand change from the service provided by the airlines.

GreedyTop -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 9:22:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation UK 14. No idea what that equates to in America. I just looked it up.. UK14 = US12

hopelessfool -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 9:25:56 AM)
It depends on the company south wast and american airlines almost all of their planes have these measurements. And Most other american airlines have these as well in several if not half of their planes.

NuevaVida -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 10:38:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: variation30 quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida That's how we remain in a civil society. I wouldn't call a society who remained civil only through coercion and aggression very civil... quote: Laws are in place so that members of society can all enjoy opportunities for work, recreation, shopping, etc. I'm confused, why should all members of society enjoy equal opportunities for work, recreation, shopping, etc. I've never taken well to the litany of egalitarianism... Rothbard has an excellent quote on the subject which I feel is somewhat relevent since you are making a plea to your subjective notion of 'fairness'. "The diversity of mankind is a basic postulate of our knowledge of human beings. But if mankind is diverse and individuated, then how can anyone propose equality as an ideal? Every year, scholars hold Conferences on Equality and call for greater equality, and no one challenges the basic tenet. But what justification can equality find in the nature of man? If each individual is unique, how else can he be made 'equal' to others than by destroying most of what is human in him and reducing human society to the mindless uniformity of the ant heap?" To create absolute equality, you're going to have to knock everyone on the right side of the bellcurve down a few notches. taken to it's ends, you'd have the wonderful world of harrison bergeron. to be perfectly honest, people don't deserve equal 'opportunities' because people aren't equal. The Mozart's, the Szasz's, the Mises', the Sagan's, the Rockefeller's, the Rostropovich's, and the Cummings' of the world put out products and ideas that are unquantifiably more impressive than anything I could produce. they deserve more. likewise, any individual who produces something deserves more than the lumpenproletariate. I dont' see why we should have rights to education, healthcare, maseratis, foie gras, or two seats on an air plane just because we are a human. quote: I don't want to live in a society that forces people to stay out of movie theaters and restaurants and certain buildings, just because businesses won't put up a ramp (hey, isn't keeping people out of those places forcing people to do something they don't want to do?). Try living your life in a wheelchair for awhile, and see if your perspective changes. Otherwise, maybe being forced to stay home is OK with you, since you wouldn't be able to get around very much. I can't really comment on this since your whole post centered around equality and I specifically left "equal" out of my argument. People should have opportunities. Not necessarily equal opportunities. Different animal altogether. quote: I find this quite funny. you don't want to live in a society where people are forced to stay out of movie theaters and restaurants because they dont' want to build a ramp...but you are more than happy to live in a society where people are forced to build ramps, larger bathrooms, regulate smoking, etc. on their private property. sigh Yep. Same as in California they are "forced" to meet earthquake standards, fire standards, and other OSHA regulations. If you want to be in business, you're going to have to conform to the rules & regs surrounding running it. quote: and no, keeping people out of those places is not forcing people to do something they want to do. what a silly argument. denying someone a trade or transaction is not the same forcing someone to commit an action. if you can't figure out why, I'd be more than happy to hold your hand through the argument. Why did you decide to become condescending in your discussion? Was I insulting of you? Do you believe that will win anyone to see and understand your view point? How is forcing an action bad, but forcing an inaction (such as staying home) good? quote: you know what, if I lived in a wheelchair, I wouldn't have a different perspective. sorry. No one knows what their perspective on something will be in 20, 30, 40 years. If we could so easily predict that, we'd be static and not fluid individuals. But my questions are rhetorical now, since you decided to take this conversation to a different level - one I am not interested in.

moonvine -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 12:03:59 PM)
Using FR How many of the posters in this thread live in Canada? I don't, so it won't affect me one way or the other....

stella41b -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 2:21:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia Is there a full moon tonight?[sm=excuseme.gif] No MzMia, just the same old song, you know, about that shortage of love and kindness when it comes to your fellow man.

Vendaval -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 3:36:47 PM)
A few posters need a time out or to stand in a corner.

variation30 -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 6:38:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBBTBW The misconception you seem to have is that large people want to have 2 seats, or want to take up more room than is allowed. The fact is that the travel industry has failed to look at the fact that they don't make their accomodations for the average sized person. Large people are not looking for special treatment, people in general are seeking a REASONABLE accomodation for their travel. Bearing in mind that there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. I didn't say that large people are always looking for special treatment. nor did I say they are trying to take up more room than is allowed. for instance, they can buy two seats and be allowed to take up as much room in those two seats as they desire...and that is a reasonable accomodation for their travel. quote: I don't know how tall you are, how large or small you are, what your circumstances are at all. People that don't need REASONABLE accomodations never think anyone needs an accomdation for any reason. No one fits into the societal norm of everything. There will come a time when you will need a REASONABLE accomodation. I hope it is there for you I'm 5'11 and 145lbs. despite that, I can very well imagine how being 6'6 and 300lbs. would change how comfortable I am on airplanes. I could even understand how it could be so uncomfortable that I may be more likely to pay more money to sit in first class, buy two seats in coach, or simply not fly and drive where I want to go. and again, I feel I need to stress that there is a very big difference between what people 'need' and what people 'want'.

RainydayNE -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 6:41:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie quote: ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy It's wrong to (penalize) people because of their size. People are all human (I read that once, a few years back), only too human and we are not all the same. You should be given as much space as you need, God knows we all pay enough. The airlines make more than enough money (might I suggest you read some of the annual financial statements from all the US and other air carriers...for a somewhat different viewpoint on that subject). If you're a waitress...would you see it as appropriate to bring 2 meals for the price of one...and in accord...follow on....tips? If you're a home builder...would you add a 2 person tub for the price of a 1 person tub...or a 14 foot wide garage for the same price as an 11 foot? If you're a car salesperson...would you sell someone a Hummer for the same price as a Honda Fit? Would you, as a truck driver....deliver 15 yards of rock for the same price as 6? As an architect, design a 4,500 sf home for the same price as a 1,200 sf one? How about designing 6 brochures....for the same price as 2? Or even printing 100,000 postcards for the same price as 25,000? *(And yet you expect an airline to provide 2 seats for the same price as 1).* YYYEESSSSSSSSSSS. this is exactly it.

variation30 -> RE: Obese has right to 2 airline seats- (11/23/2008 6:44:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Variation you are speaking like a child, demanding what you want, then telling everyone else to "fuck off" now, im not about to do your homework, google bailing out airlines. many, many times an airlines has went to the government, hat in hand, begging for money. and you still want to call them a "private" business? they have taken public money time and time again, even looked to the government for increased taxes and fees. do a bit more homework dear. you have made your own argument moot. congratulations, scholar! now, I'm not about to do your homework, but you may want to take a look and see that if you want to say that having government interference in an industry makes it public, you'll realize that every industry in the world is not 'private property'. every idustry has been regulated through minimum wage, working hour limits, age limits, natural monopolies, and so on and so on. so by your ill-conceived logic...every industry in a country with economic regulations is public and we have 'rights' to those products. which is fantastic, as that means ferrari and treasurer cigarrets are public services and I have a 'right' to take their services for half of the price. look at us sugar, look at us steel, or, if you really want to get a fun perspective of this, look at the us banking system. if you'd do your homework, you'd see that everything from the airline industry to the land we own and live on has been fiddled with by 'public' money and policies. so if you're going to say that airlines are not private property, you're also going to have to concede that your land isn't private property. and trust me, I despise rent seeking more than you do.

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