quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

In the early 60's in Massachusetts they still had the "vagrancy laws" on the books.
If you didn't have $2 on you and an I.D. they could lock you up for being,....a "vagrant."
I think it was an easy way for the cops to get someone off the street that they didn't want on the street.
Massachusetts may be a "liberal" state but Massachusetts cops are anything but liberal!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

In the early 60's in Massachusetts they still had the "vagrancy laws" on the books.
If you didn't have $2 on you and an I.D. they could lock you up for being,....a "vagrant."
I think it was an easy way for the cops to get someone off the street that they didn't want on the street.
Massachusetts may be a "liberal" state but Massachusetts cops are anything but liberal!

Wow, that's a really shitty law. I had never heard of that. Although I do know of some homeless people that commit crimes just to get arrested for food/shelter so I guess it wouldn't be all bad... But if you had just lost your wallet and wearing awful clothes, I could see how being arrested as a vagrant would suck.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

for one, the federal government can augment the current real id's so that they contain more information all for our 'safety and health' - which would fly in the face of privacy. the real id act puts no restrictions on what the id card can be used for in the future. the fear is that this is opening the door for a national id that is required for things other than flying or entering a federal building/nuclear power plant. and let's not kid ourselves, that's what's going to happen.

Example? I'm still not seeing why this is a big deal. What are you worried about happening?

quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30


it's bad enough we have SSN's and are required to carry ID (Jefferson would've shot a bitch if he found out this was happening)...

but as far as what I"m worried about, I'm worried about the federal government passing legislation that makes any interaction within the 'private' sector (if only such a thing existed) require a national ID card. most of these things require a state/national ID as it is. post-patriot act you have to show two froms of ID to open a bank account. you have to have a SSN to go to school, to work, etc. you cannot fly if you don't have ID. you cannot use credit cards/cheques if you don't have an ID. and so on and so on.

it's already bad enough...but the threats to privacy increase if a single federal agency is in charge of a system that keeps tabs on everything from our purchases to our medical history. I'm of the opinion that any move away from rugged individualism towards a more collectivised centralization is a bad, bad thing.

why? well, let's say that the ubermensch who work in government make a few bad decisions that I want to ignore...it makes it more difficult to do such with this kind of oversight. let's say in a few decades the 2nd amendment is completely stricken out. I may want to ignore this and keep a gun or five around just in case I have to protect myself or my loved ones from some type of aggression. it's much more difficult for me to take these steps if every purchase or withdrawal I make is recorded in a federal database. or let's take a look at this example...I don't have a lot of money, but what I do have saved is in several ounces of gold. what if a law is passed that makes it illegal for american citizens to privately own gold (which was done under fdr and was maintained up until the nixon years). well, I can't hide my wealth as the government knows that I purchased a few pamp suisse bars and isn't going to take 'um, I lost them now get off my property' as an answer. privacy is a very valuable asset that protects you from aggression (by more than a few sources). and to be honest, I'm not going to give it up and throw my fate to the competence and altruism of politicians.

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ORIGINAL: Lockit

You also need a social security card for school grants, of which you seem to have no problem with. ROFL

quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: variation30


it's bad enough we have SSN's and are required to carry ID (Jefferson would've shot a bitch if he found out this was happening)...

but as far as what I"m worried about, I'm worried about the federal government passing legislation that makes any interaction within the 'private' sector (if only such a thing existed) require a national ID card. most of these things require a state/national ID as it is. post-patriot act you have to show two froms of ID to open a bank account. you have to have a SSN to go to school, to work, etc. you cannot fly if you don't have ID. you cannot use credit cards/cheques if you don't have an ID. and so on and so on.

it's already bad enough...but the threats to privacy increase if a single federal agency is in charge of a system that keeps tabs on everything from our purchases to our medical history. I'm of the opinion that any move away from rugged individualism towards a more collectivised centralization is a bad, bad thing.

why? well, let's say that the ubermensch who work in government make a few bad decisions that I want to ignore...it makes it more difficult to do such with this kind of oversight. let's say in a few decades the 2nd amendment is completely stricken out. I may want to ignore this and keep a gun or five around just in case I have to protect myself or my loved ones from some type of aggression. it's much more difficult for me to take these steps if every purchase or withdrawal I make is recorded in a federal database. or let's take a look at this example...I don't have a lot of money, but what I do have saved is in several ounces of gold. what if a law is passed that makes it illegal for american citizens to privately own gold (which was done under fdr and was maintained up until the nixon years). well, I can't hide my wealth as the government knows that I purchased a few pamp suisse bars and isn't going to take 'um, I lost them now get off my property' as an answer. privacy is a very valuable asset that protects you from aggression (by more than a few sources). and to be honest, I'm not going to give it up and throw my fate to the competence and altruism of politicians.

See, I don't see this as a bad thing. I think it's good that you can trace guns/flights back to people, because it won't affect the majority of people, but it will effect the people who choose to to retarded things on flights/with guns. While I think it would be terrible if they were to make it illegal for individuals to own gold (that makes no sense to me at all, why would that have been implemented in the first place? I don't want to have to wikipedia it haha), I think for the most part, the good out weighs the bad. SSN I think are somewhat like our SIN numbers we have here, and are used for tax purposes, which I would assume makes it easier when it comes time to file them (I wouldn't know, I don't deal with my own taxes haha). For credit cards/checks, I would be more upset if I wasn't asked for id, because I wouldn't want someone using my credit card without consent. I'm still not really seeing the downside.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Actually, i think here in the states it is illegal for an adult to not have an official ID, either a DL or an ID on them of the state of which they are a resident or a passport or military id some type of official ID.  I believe these laws were in effect long before 911 etc.  They can actually be given i believe its a ticket of you are stopped or asked for same by law enforcement and can produce no official ID.  This however, is not oft times enforced, but i do believe it is law in most if not all of the US States.  I don't know the specifics on it, but i do believe its already a law an adult must carry some form of official ID on them or they can be cited.  Our drivers licenses are by State, so if you drive you technically already have such an ID on you (let's hope). 

angel

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ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: rachel529

read 1984 by george orwell.

I've read it multiple times, it's my favorite book. There's a big difference between a piece of id and that book. That's a really silly comparison.

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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

if you are law abiding then you have nothing to fear from carrying an ID
on the other hand, if you dont carry an ID it is clear evidence of your criminal nature and intent

its really not a big deal to have ID - we all have it in some way or another; the big deal is the nature of ID being brought in now on the basis of fear and suspicion and the "equality of all" approach which means everyone must be guilty until proven innocent. where its also a big deal is the capabilities of modern ID cards to store information which the holder him/herself doesnt know is on the card - information which can be manipulated by those in authority, either deliberately and with evil intent or more likely accidentally, to render one an unperson at a stroke.

E

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ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
I even remember being proud to get it for the first time.

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ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra
I even remember being proud to get it for the first time.

Why????

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ORIGINAL: variation30
you cannot use credit cards/cheques if you don't have an ID.