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RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 7:55:27 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I dont see it that way Butch - when you have multiple ID you can reference the others to get the one faulty ID repaired. With a single ID "it must be correct" even if its not, as you have no means of proving an error through other means. And with the new technology being proposed here at least - its very unlikely you'd even know there was an error on the ID.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 7:58:42 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		You do not have to have an Id in the states unless you want one. You can go to the secretary of state and get an non drivers license one. If you want to get technical we all have a birth certificate You can use that to travel in some countries. It is what I used until I got a passport.  

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:00:26 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I've never understood the resistance to ID's...I wish we had a federal ID that matched required DNA samples of every citizen of this country.

Then use this ID for everything that needs an ID.

Our government will only abuse this information if we let them. What does this have to do with privacy? Hell right now I have all kinds of ID's...to drive...for credit and debit cards...social security...my job...my bank...on and on. It would be great to have just one.

Butch




And of course there has never been anything to suggest our government would be anything less than completely trustworthy.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:06:17 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I dont see it that way Butch - when you have multiple ID you can reference the others to get the one faulty ID repaired. With a single ID "it must be correct" even if its not, as you have no means of proving an error through other means. And with the new technology being proposed here at least - its very unlikely you'd even know there was an error on the ID.

E


What you say does make good sense but it must not work very well. People today under our present system have a terrible time straightening out stolen identities. I think because it is so complicated to work with all the different ID’s

I just think it will not be better one way or another...they both have drawbacks. But a single ID will be more convenient and would have the added benefit of helping to solve crimes…at least if DNA is required to get the ID.

Butch

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:08:47 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I've never understood the resistance to ID's...I wish we had a federal ID that matched required DNA samples of every citizen of this country.

Then use this ID for everything that needs an ID.

Our government will only abuse this information if we let them. What does this have to do with privacy? Hell right now I have all kinds of ID's...to drive...for credit and debit cards...social security...my job...my bank...on and on. It would be great to have just one.

Butch




And of course there has never been anything to suggest our government would be anything less than completely trustworthy.




An ID would not make our government any more or less trustworthy...I think if they wanted to find me they could with or without an ID.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:10:04 AM   
rachel529


Posts: 197
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline 		i think the point is dont trust the government.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:11:01 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The DNA thing has a lot going for it of course - but here's the thing; if everyone has to have a DNA ID, then your insurance company is going to want to swipe your card to see what ailments you might be prone to - the existent underclass in the US who cant get healthcover will multiply enormously, and many who can get cover will pay much more for much less service (we're not covering you for this, or this or this). Factor in that healthcare that comes from employment, and if youre not up to scratch genetics wise, you wont be able to get a job either.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:13:45 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I just think it will not be better one way or another...they both have drawbacks. But a single ID will be more convenient and would have the added benefit of helping to solve crimes…at least if DNA is required to get the ID.

Butch


So now we not only have the intrusion of an ID requirement to deal with but we should welcome with open arms our government having our DNA on file? 

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:15:19 AM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rachel529
i think the point is dont trust the government.

Quite.

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:15:27 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Great Point Lady Ellen. A Emploryer could use that as an excuse for not hireing you.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:15:54 AM   
rachel529


Posts: 197
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline 		im just waiting for everyone to have satellite chips... for safetys sake.  hey, who cares if they know where you are if you arent doing anything wrong?

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:16:27 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The DNA thing has a lot going for it of course - but here's the thing; if everyone has to have a DNA ID, then your insurance company is going to want to swipe your card to see what ailments you might be prone to - the existent underclass in the US who cant get healthcover will multiply enormously, and many who can get cover will pay much more for much less service (we're not covering you for this, or this or this). Factor in that healthcare that comes from employment, and if youre not up to scratch genetics wise, you wont be able to get a job either.

E


Obama's going to fix all that...lol.. no need to worry about insurance .. I don't know all the ins and outs of DNA...I'm wondering if there is a certain amount of info that would ID you but not detailed enough to reveal medical conditions...I just don't know.

Butch

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:21:32 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		This very issue is what was raised here Butch - though we have an NHS so it doesnt matter too much on healthcare matters, your DNA would be taken into account for things like life insurance, pensions et al; its very difficult to get a mortgage without having life insurance tagged on.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:22:37 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

An ID would not make our government any more or less trustworthy...I think if they wanted to find me they could with or without an ID.


The point being it would open the door to potential abuse that we have seen time and again up to, and including, the Patriot Act misuse and Bush's wiretapping program.

Why would you be willing to surrender more freedom in light of the long, sordid history of our government overstepping its legal authority regarding its citizens?

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:25:29 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I just think it will not be better one way or another...they both have drawbacks. But a single ID will be more convenient and would have the added benefit of helping to solve crimes…at least if DNA is required to get the ID.

Butch


So now we not only have the intrusion of an ID requirement to deal with but we should welcome with open arms our government having our DNA on file? 


It would be less of an intrusion, at least if one ID could be used in all instances. They most likely have your finger or foot print already...but what problem do you see with DNA ...I mean what do you envision the US government doing that causes such worry in you?

Butch

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:29:34 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This very issue is what was raised here Butch - though we have an NHS so it doesnt matter too much on healthcare matters, your DNA would be taken into account for things like life insurance, pensions et al; its very difficult to get a mortgage without having life insurance tagged on.

E


As I say above there may be a way to ID without detailed info...I would feel a lot better if that were the case. But even now the same info is on files by your other ids. They could access that info too...except there are laws against it...Those same laws will be applied to the one ID as well.

Butch

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:30:22 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		PA drivers license now has a mag strip on it.  I actually was going to take a magnet to it, I decided not to because when I am pulled over by the cops, I prefer to have it a short and non-stupid event.

If they cant get the basic info then that keeps me even longer in their "(not) free to go". 
when such happens they have a way of noticing other infractions.  we all have them.  you cant drive 2 miles with out some violations, that is how they are written.

It doesnt help to get mouthy with a cop, particularly in rural areas.

Todays paper says shoppers are using less credit and more cash/debit.   the key word is "debit".   being that debit cards can trigger NSF fees- what a scam waiting to happen.  New fees are planned for debit cards, you can count on it.

Ya know they advise people that if someone tries to kid nap YOU, never to get into the car willingly.   Apply this logic to the government (bus, train, etc)

as with a rape- it is better to fight the attacker.  

the erosion of civil liberties is awfully convenient for the grid.

note that the US had the cost of the veitnam war,  so in 1971 we went off the gold standard.   (my 75 year old neighbor thinks we are still on it)..so consider the current war.   what hard asset will we surrender for that debt?????



(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:34:51 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

An ID would not make our government any more or less trustworthy...I think if they wanted to find me they could with or without an ID.


The point being it would open the door to potential abuse that we have seen time and again up to, and including, the Patriot Act misuse and Bush's wiretapping program.

Why would you be willing to surrender more freedom in light of the long, sordid history of our government overstepping its legal authority regarding its citizens?


Gun proponents like to use the...one law will lead to others bugaboo. I believe this way of thinking applies to your arguments.

I’m for the Patriot Act but not it’s abuse…but because there is potential for abuse does not mean all Government actions will be abused as well.

Remember we had enough of the abuses and we kicked them and their kind out of office.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 11/24/2008 8:35:42 AM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:39:23 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Then there is the age old problem of forgery. Anything that can be made can be copied - look what happens with credit cards as they evolve.

If someone else has an ID that has my name and my DNA on it, and their picture, who is the real me?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Real ID, will you carry ID??? - 11/24/2008 8:40:37 AM   
rachel529


Posts: 197
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline 		i seem to remember bush getting re-elected....

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 80
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