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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 5:56:03 AM   
RainydayNE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee


you must be the change you want to see in the world....all this Ghandi makes me want to cry....

perse


so true :)

(in reply to persephonee)
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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 6:02:22 AM   
mystickoolaid


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OK. I'm a bit confused. I personally enjoy more feminine men, some of my best friends are flamingly gay and/or want to be women. All of the TS/TG/TV people who have contacted me have been totally open and honest... and I don't mind having someone come to be my submissive regardless of sex, race, sexual orientation, etc.


I do have a few questions... Aszhrae (I hope I spelled that right) forgive me for my forwardness but are you TS/TG? Or is this just a random question you were curious about? I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, I am new here.

2nd one... what kind of 'verification' do Masters look for?

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 6:09:19 AM   
pixidustpet


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aszhrae, i'm sorry that you have been hurt by someone asking you to verify who/what you are.  obviously transgender is an issue for you...being born in the body that doesnt match the brain wiring can be terribly hurtful to ones-self, not to mention how others percieve you, i am sure.

as others have mentioned, the concept of being able to reproduce with one's partner is very important to some people. (gads i hate the term "breeding" but that's my issue!)  but at the same time, i look at the current "PREGNANT MAN!!" invented story.  he isnt a man at the moment, he's male legally and from the waist up, but still biologically performing a solely female act.  men at this moment cannot concieve a child within their bodies nor carry it to delivery, therefore...female, no matter how much he prefers the title of male (and i will address him as such because that is what he essentially wishes to be in the end).

no matter how much a transgender person wishes to be, genetically they cannot change the gender of the body they were born into.  and to some people, that will ALWAYS matter, as to some people they will ALWAYS reject *me* for being short, and fat, and tattooed, and wearing the signs that yep i carried offspring within me.  but THOSE people arent the choice for me.  they would always find me wanting in their minds, because i couldnt live up to the mental image that they carry for what a perfect submissive/slave/lifepartner should be.

yes, it really sucks to be found wanting.  but in my case i'd MUCH rather be told i didnt meet someone's standards up front than to be held forth as a maybe for time on end thinking that i was forming a relationship and being heartbroken to find out that i had never really measured up in the first place.

i know that may not be helpful to you at the moment, but its helped me in knowing it is not really me, but just that i dont meet the other person's blueprint.  i found two wonderful dominants whose blueprint i  DO meet, and am fairly content and happy now.

kitten

(in reply to chamberqueen)
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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 6:10:38 AM   
MamaDomme1


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~~FR~~

I could care less about a persons genetic DNA structure.  Doesn't matter to me what equipment one is born with, or without.  And I sure don't wish for more children.... raised all I need to raise.  I feel that love can and will transcend any biological issues.

Things I *DO* verify:  health status, marital status, criminal background status, etc.  Not to say any of those things will affect a decision whether to proceed with a relationship or not..... I just require honesty about it.  I want any potential partner to be completely honest with me from the beginning.

If I think I am developing a loving relationship with someone of the female gender and time comes to peel off the clothing, I want to know if I will be moving aside the dangly bits or not, ahead of time.  Surprises of that nature tend to piss me off.  And the same goes if I think I am develop a loving relationship with a male and I find no dangly bits.

Honesty will carry one much further than any amount of deceit.

(in reply to persephonee)
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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 6:48:11 AM   
SimplyMichael


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I require honesty and if I found out someone was not a biological woman and hadn't mentioned that up front, I would drop them instantly. 

How would the OP feel if the "mistress" she was so in love with turned out to actually be a man in drag?  "She" wants a biological woman, she wants what she wants and that is okay but if someone else has a standard she wants to complain.

Sorry, people have a right to choose what they want to choose.

(in reply to Aszhrae)
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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 7:02:34 AM   
Rover


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While I sympathize with the OP, I cannot help but feel that this is a case of unrealistic expectations.  It's not realistic to expect that some (many?) people will not care if a prospective partner is transgendered.  Having that unrealistic expectation leads to frustration, anger and hurt when, time and again, it is shattered.
 
If you're looking to change someone, start by looking in the mirror.  It's not possible to change everyone else, but it possible to change you.  Gosh, you should understand that better than anyone else on these boards.  So now you've changed the physical... finish the job by changing your expectations and accept that (like all of us) you're not going to appeal to everyone.
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Aszhrae)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 7:11:32 AM   
KnightofMists


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based on these comments... I am surprized that you don't think it's a crime that a Master or Mistress shouldn't care if it's a boy or girl that become their slave.  Fact is... we not giving birth here... we are making choices....  Regardless if we agree with the choices or not... it is everyone's right to make those choices that they believe will bring them happiness. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Aszhrae)
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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 7:26:40 AM   
marie2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

Girl has thought about this since reading how some wish for verification, do you have any idea how much damage you might have done to the girl or boy after they fail your verification requirement. Ever thought that it was for you the master or you the mistress that the individual you just shot down went through hell to get to where they are just to be with you the master or with you the mistress. They have already made the sacrifices to be a boy or girl, having sacrificed their families, their friends, their chances for employment just to be that boy or girl you have always wanted as your submissive.
And you just shot them out of the sky with wanting a genetically pure girl or boy. Asking for verification, may be your screening method, might imply that they are not good enough for you. Unless of course, asking for verification, is to guarantee that you a breeder is guaranteed. *rolls eyes*

This comes from the darkness. But never the less an observation and question.





Because of the highlighted red....because it's that big of a deal in your life, the process you (generic) went through has become a part of you mentally.  And for that reason alone, it should be disclosed up front so that the other person knows the mental as well as the physical of who they might be getting involved with.  

And not everybody wants to deal with that.  On the other hand, others may be fascinated by it.  

We all can't be everybody's cup of tea.  I wouldn't take it personally if someone shyed away because of that.   Heck, I've been ruled out (more than once) because I have a child. 

(in reply to Aszhrae)
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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 7:38:20 AM   
LaTigresse


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Aszhrae, for ME, it is all about honesty and full disclosure. Regardless of how you feel about this issue you are smart enough to know that it is important to alot of people.

There are ALOT of details of my personal life that are not put on this website for mass consumption. However, if I am beginning communication with someone I make sure I start putting those details out there for them. Now, it may be that none of them will matter......coolio. BUT, what if one of them mattered alot? Being dishonest, lying, being deceitful, etc. are not qualities I want associated with me. I prefer to tell it like it is and risk running people off rather than deal with the drama later on.

Wouldn't you prefer to tell someone that you are xxx (whatever the issue may be) and have them say, "okay, thank you for telling me but it really doesn't matter at all", than not tell them and have them find out later, after you've become emotionally invested, and have them kick you to the curb for lying to them? I know I would.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Aszhrae)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 8:30:41 AM   
stella41b


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Aszhrae

I'm going to come back in here and give you some advice - unsolicited, it might not apply - but I'm giving it for what it's worth.

If you thought that being passable and not disclosing would get you through, I'm hoping that these responses from the non-transgendered folk here - and trust me these are pretty frank but mild, will disabuse you of that illusion right away.

You've spent 18 years in domestic service, I'm not too sure how far you've got in your transition, but take it from me, you've been cocooned in a safe haven, and like it or not you've got to start standing on your own two feet and counting on only yourself. Being able to do this with some degree of independence is the acid test for gender reassignment, I think (off the top of my head) it's called the Harry Benjamin standard of care. If you were in the UK you would need to go through a Real Life Test for 2 years or so and change your name and live as a woman 24/7 in order to qualify for treatment.

You've got to start waking up to reality.. Now you are seeking a Mistress, but how much do you need that Mistress, and why? To support you? Very few women will be willing to do this in a D/s dynamic, unless you've signed up for total slavery, most domestic jobs involve kids, not D/s, they're vanilla, and you're not only competing with an awful lot of women.

Like you I'm a domestic service submissive, I started out that way, but I have also held vanilla domestic cleaning jobs and been paid up to £10 an hour for my work. I've done secretarial work office work, and I was busy gathering all these skills and experience before I even attempted to go through the transition.

But Aszhrae, you're doing this for you, nobody else, and like it or not you cannot change the world or change society just like that. Yes, it's me Stella being a bit of a hypocrite here, I'm established in theatre and gender and sexual orientation is my mission, my cause, because I have stood up to people, the Church and organizations in the past and spoken out - not just for me, but for everyone. However realistically I know that the chances are I'm going to be dead before any of these changes take place. Right now I will settle for a decent sized audience and a long running production.

My gender issues devastated my childhood and my teens, it took me years to get my head round the concept, it decimated my self-worth, and you're expecting the non-transgendered to be able to understand from a few postings?

But it's like MasterFireMaam says, forget about those people who reject you, forget about the negative - gender reassignment is stressful, traumatic, and painful, you need to focus on the positive and look for people who accept you, anyone.

You don't need a Mistress, you need a support network, you need friends, you need family, you need that support because without it it's going to be very tough, and I'm speaking as someone who is getting through my own transition without much support here with me.

Coming here is a step in the right direction, and I will personally vouch for everyone here, these people are supportive, they;ve been supporting me for well over a year now, and many of them write to me on the other side. I don't want to rattle off names, but the list is long and I can't even count the times when something has been said which has helped, taught me something, or simply brightened my day.

But you need that support real time, there where you are, and you need to start developing and building that support network.

There's a ratio which is pretty direct, and that ratio is the less intimate the contact the more open and supportive other people are of people who are transgendered. There are people who aren't transgendered who do understand and who are prepared to understand and support you, to stand by you, and you need to be finding them.

Transitioning or living independently as transgendered is easier in bigger cities, you may need to move to one. The very minimum you need is a room and I would advise you to have a computer with access to the Internet.

If you want to PM me on the other side please feel free to do so. I can see what I can do. No promises, but I can try. I have family in Toronto, not sure how far that is away from you.

You need to ditch the anger and resentment. Nobody's interested. Trust me. People have got their own issues to cope with, nobody is going to make space for you or treat you as a special case just because you're transgendered.

Make sure also you've got the support of the medical profession, a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and/or a trans-friendly counsellor. This is vitally important, because in a previous posting you described what I assume is anxiety attacks and panic attacks, these things need monitoring and professional help and management.

As for a relationship it's possible, but it's not a given. I would say it's a minority of transgendered folk who go on to form successful relationships with someone non-transgendered, especially if it is sexual. It is possible to find a Mistress, but it's not as easy as not being transgendered. Frankly speaking your best chances are among the bisexuals and trans-friendly lesbians, but not all lesbians are trans-friendly. Some are, because there's no PMS, no risk of pregnancy, and there are people who are attracted to the transgendered mindset and even gynandrophiles, people who are attracted to the transgendered.

Get yourself a hobby, go do voluntary work, throw yourself into society and keep throwing yourself into society. You will never ever be completely isolated from society except through your own choice - remember that - you are human just like the rest of society.

People get rejected for other reasons too. Try asking someone who is overweight, thin, short, tall, we all have preferences and prejudices, I have them, you have them too. It's worth bearing this in mind. People might not like you for other reasons than being transgendered. People are people.

This is all I can think of at the moment - I'm writing this off the top of my head. Some of it may apply, some of it probably won't. But you have it.

If you want to message me, please feel free to do so. You'd be more than welcome.


< Message edited by stella41b -- 11/26/2008 8:41:30 AM >


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(in reply to RainydayNE)
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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 8:32:45 AM   
persephonee


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Stella....you have cmail...in a minute...i always say that before i write the frickin thing.

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You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 8:48:46 AM   
DesFIP


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Not wanting a transgendered is not prejudice. Saying it is is the same as saying someone's prejudiced if they don't get turned on by those of the same sex. We want what we want.

Yes, fewer people want a trans. Just as fewer males seek males instead of females. Just like more women seek men and not other women for a primary partner.

Does this make it harder to find a partner if you're transgendered? Certainly. But it is equally difficult for a 5'3" man to find a female partner. Not prejudice, preference.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 8:59:53 AM   
pixidustpet


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stella...

i always read your posts with interest, because you have a dizzying intellect and way of putting things.  and that's damned attractive to me in *whoever* it is.

but dang.  you have my admiration and respect even more now.  i'm proud to know you, and i'd definitely give you a great big hug, woman!

kitten, sniffling from emotion

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 9:52:31 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

If you are constantly hurt by the verification process, don't deal with people who require it. You can attempt to educate people who don't want to know or you can celebrate the person you are and focus on having a wonderful life...in just the way you want. I'm not making light of the challenges in a transgendered person's life, but you must be the change you want. There ARE people here who understand the difference between biological sex and gender. Keep looking.

Master Fire



I'm surprised I missed this before. This is fantastic advice! It really applies to all walks of life.

And Stella, I loved your words. Thank you for sharing yourself so deeply.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 10:16:48 AM   
SingleRarity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae
Does it really matter if you were born one way and are another way?
Just girls and boys that are submissives,
Just dommes and doms that are wanting for submissive/slave.


So from what I gathered from your op, we should just just take whatever partners come our way regardless of taste or preference because if we don't it might hurt someone's feelings?  Um...well then shouldn't you get rid of that clause in your profile that says "NO MEN" in big bold letters? 

Daddy's Ballerina, e

(in reply to Aszhrae)
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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 11:55:59 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Are you really saying that a monogamous Master or Mistress that desires progeny should not want a fertile mate so they can spare a transsexual lying about their past the trauma of revealing the truth?   Tell again that you think the human race is supposed to give up procreation so as not to step on the toes of a transsexual lying about their past. 


A trans-sexual is NOT lying about hir past if xhe states hir current emotional/mental and/or physical gender (if post-op). A post-op transgender male is MALE. A pre-op transgender female, living as a female but awaiting the surgery is FEMALE. A non-operative trans male or female is the gender that he or she is mentally... the gender that xhe claims. What is it about this that people just don't get. Transgender is not "cross-dresser"... it is a valid condition where the mind is oriented as one gender, the body is oriented as another.

Sure, if your object is to get your submissive-type pregnant, then a trans female won't do -- but neither will an infertile one, and considering that something like 1 in 3 women these days is infertile... so I guess that severely limits your dating pool... or... wait... you don't require proof of fertility??? How can that be??? So if you don't require proof of fertility, how do you know that this genetically born female you're going to collar can produce progeny for you???? What if she can't????

It blows my mind that people are actually trying to justify this kind of bald-faced discrimination on such feeble grounds. At least be honest in saying "Oh, yeah, btw, I'm biased against transgenders."




_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to ResidentSadist)
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RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 11:59:37 AM   
LaTigresse


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For some it may be discrimination, for others it really may not be. To assume it is with everyone is, in my opinion, a type of reverse descrimination.






_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 11:59:51 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SingleRarity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae
Does it really matter if you were born one way and are another way?
Just girls and boys that are submissives,
Just dommes and doms that are wanting for submissive/slave.


So from what I gathered from your op, we should just just take whatever partners come our way regardless of taste or preference because if we don't it might hurt someone's feelings?  Um...well then shouldn't you get rid of that clause in your profile that says "NO MEN" in big bold letters? 

Daddy's Ballerina, e



Actually, no... I notice that she doesn't specify "No genetically -born- men" or "No 'trans' men"... she just says "no men"... what she's talking about is discriminating against people because they were born in a different body that wasn't a match for the person inside the shell, and who went through measures to make the change so the inside matches the outside. What she's talking about is a -very- specific kind of discrimination, where, despite an individual being male, because his 'maleness' is by surgery rather than by birth, he is barred from positions open to -male- servants... or where a female who is female by surgical adaptation in body to match the mind that has -always- felt female is barred from positions meant for female submissive types SOLELY because she wasn't born a female. What about that is so hard to understand?


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to SingleRarity)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 12:01:00 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

For some it may be discrimination, for others it really may not be. To assume it is with everyone is, in my opinion, a type of reverse descrimination.



Maybe you can explain to me, in a way I will understand, how "You're not male enough because you weren't born male" or "you're not female enough because you weren't born female" is not discrimination.

(Oh, yeah -- found one of Dame Calla's hot-buttons here...)


< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 11/26/2008 12:02:02 PM >


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Verification: more harm than good - 11/26/2008 12:11:39 PM   
LaTigresse


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I did not read her OP as that being the case. I read that she was upset that she was asked to verify she was what she said she was. There were no specifics (that I read) as to what exactly was demanded, OR that she would be told to bugger off regardless.  Just a proof of her words. That she was indeed, what she said. For all we know the dominant in question would desire her more for her truth. We don't know.

Just because this is an especially sensitive area, and a very emotional one for her, does not mean that some people would see a lie about such a huge part of her life as acceptable. And yes, I am one of those weird people that consider omission a lie.

To give an "outside the box" point of view from my own experiences I will explain what I mean. I have had many many men, that definately are men, some trying to pretend otherwise, contact me. They are not TG, they have only one thing in mind. Trying to fool the hot(in their eyes) lesbian into giving them wank material, and wasting my time. One was quite convincing even. He did the whole makeup, wig thing. BUT when I did bust him, he was just a straight guy playing crazy internet games.

Asking a person to prove themself is not a crime. I've done it when I felt something was off. As I said, just because this is a delicate issue, does not mean that there is the obvious intent some might assume.

Edited to add, since you have admitted this is a hot button for you, please consider that you also have a viseral emotional reaction to it which will colour your perception of the nature of intent of others. Maybe even with an intent that does not exist.

I have my own hot buttons where this is the case.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 11/26/2008 12:13:59 PM >


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 60
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