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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 3:35:42 PM   
Roselaure


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There is no argument that Walmart offers some of the lowest prices around.  I grew up in a town of less than 7000 people and my elderly mother still lives there.  The mom and pop stores could never affor to offer the low prices on everyday goods that Walmart can, which means a lot to low income people. 

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 3:39:36 PM   
Raechard


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I agree, the idea that poor people should pay more out of a sense of national pride is rather amusing. The middleclass can pay those high prices if they like, nothing stopping them.

I'd add it's crucial to make ethical purchases where you can, not all can.

Sadly I predict there will be less fair trade items bought in the near future but if people choose to invest their money with banks that don't profit out of negativity in other parts of the world that is doable, you might not get the rate you want though.
 

< Message edited by Raechard -- 11/29/2008 3:53:20 PM >


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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 4:10:56 PM   
lovingpet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: painpup

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Companies put a lot of money into experts that know how to get inside consumers' heads.  Ultimately, each individual is responsible for their actions.  Companies also have culpability when they just go too ever loving far.  Don't be so naive as to think these folks don't know exactly the climate they are creating.  There are a lot of folks who want to give their families a nice holiday, but are also short on cash.  There is so much emotion attached to an empty tree, especially where children are involved.  Add to that a bunch of folks that just want a bargain because it's there and it is a recipe for disaster.  None of this excuses folks' behavior.  It is, however, predictable and therefore must be accounted for and curbed.

There is also the matter of trying to figure out who was intentionally stomping the man, who was too negligent to notice what they were doing, and those who never wanted to step on him, but was caught in the wave just as much as he was (with lesser consequences, granted).  There were innocent people involved even in the "mob".  I certainally would like to think that I would not have to spend years in prison for being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

As someone with a family member or two that was at the mercy of such crowds as employeed just like this man, I am scared for them every single Black Friday because of all the insanity.  One family member recounts stories of intentional understocking with a memo handed out prior to the day showing what is to be offered WHEN they run out of sale items, not if  (most of these items are of lesser quality and cost more than the sale item).  He recounts people raising fists to hit him because the item they wanted is gone (like it's his fault).  He is also responsible for opening the doors and has nearly been trampled several times.  I hate the people for being such vicious, bloodsucking demons.  I also hate the company for putting him in harm's way like that every single year with the atrocity of it all mounting each time.  I don't let ANYONE off the hook for something such as this.  One day it could be a loved one of mine that is a victim to the corporate greed and mindless, ravenous consumer mob.

lovingpet
Here i go telling my age again when young the youngest of 5 my mom actually shopped Year around sale wise hence no empty tree We were asked if We could have but one item that year [actually this qustion was asked every Year ] what we wanted the most and most times we got that item pursonally i liked my stocking the most my diecast match box cars the buddly L trucks [one a year ] are still prized by me most of said items were purchased aft er Christmas or my mom's green stamps  holidays arn't what they used to be enough said


A few bucks here and there is how I usually do it as well.  Then there are the folks that there are never a few bucks.  They get within weeks of the holiday and unimaginable sorrow sets in.  Some will be telling their children, out of necessity, that the touted myth isn't true because mom & dad and Santa all cannot make gifts happen.  This was the case last year for us and our then 9-year old.  It is a loss of innocence and the fact that a child gets pulled in to the struggles of the family.

None of this excuses ridiculous behavior.  None of this allows you the company or you the customer to put my loved one in mortal danger to supply the materialistic fix (you as a generalization only).  How about adjusting attitudes?  That is much harder than fixing blame. 

In a few years both my children will be beyond the Santa years and we will be focusing on improving the lives of others rather than glutting ourselves on presents.  Our holiday is kept simple and intimate as it is, but we will expand on this in the coming years to include reaching out to our community in many different ways.  I will be so proud of my children when one day they decide they want our holiday dollars spent on a needy family rather than satiating their wishes and whims.  It is a choice to raise socially aware people or the demonic forces that be on Black Friday morning.

I long for some sanity to return to the holidays, too.  I just don't think a few goodies under the tree is such a bad thing either.  Balance and perspective is handy.

lovingpet

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 4:40:18 PM   
scarlethiney


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

No one forced these people to stampede the door, or to trample the Walmart employee.


Except the mob behind the folks in front. If you were standing at the front of the line and the door opened, you would be pushed into the store by the hundreds behind you, therefore, being forced into the stampede. True, no one forced the people at the back of the line to stampede, but those in front, didn't have a chance or a choice. It's called forward inertia. Who is at fault? Those in the front of the line, or those who pushed them into the store? Even if the folks in front saw the man get trampled, would they have been able to stop to see if he was OK? Probably not. For the same reasons stated above.


And your point is .... what ???in response to my post??????


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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 4:42:18 PM   
MrQwerty


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Sounds like the point was yes someone did force them.

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:01:10 PM   
scarlethiney


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No FatDomDaddy, I'm sorry I disagree.  The people who chose to start the stampede by pushing, the people who joined in the pushing are responsible. Walmart did not have any reason to anticipate that individuals would behave in this way. Nor did any employees obviously anticipate this reaction.
I'm sure there are plenty of people who agree with you and love the idea of holding Corporate Walmart accountable but sorry were I on the jury I would not be in favor of attributing  guilt to Walmart or that particular store.
I would however be in favor of singling out the individuals in that crowd that started that senseless stampede were it possible to identify them.
I will say I agree with the person who said Walmart does have  a responsibility to make the working environment safe for its employees. This is true. But to what degree that they already haven't??? I am sure after this tradgedy all the big box stores will now feel the need to implement some sort of "crowd" control before the Christmas shopping  sales begin in ernest.

scarlet


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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:07:14 PM   
lovingpet


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10-15 years of Black Friday history should spell it out aptly.  This time was coming and it is surprising it has taken this long to be honest.  Retailers have played these risky games for years and now here we are.  Yes the people who started the pushing and shoving are to blame.  I also think there are some who may have a lot of therapy in front of them because they never wanted, intended, and even tried desperately not to step on the man, but could not help it because of the crush around them.  This is a shared guilt. 

lovingpet 

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:09:10 PM   
MrQwerty


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney
I would however be in favor of singling out the individuals in that crowd that started that senseless stampede were it possible to identify them.


It may have been the one that shouted 'fuck he has a bomb we are all going to die!!!' you and me are going to have to go through the CCTV images together and do some lip reading.

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:13:34 PM   
scarlethiney


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The people who started the stampede in my opinion are responsible. I am not denying that there were people who got unintentionally caught up in that forward motion and who had no choice but to move forward. I imagine those poor individuals are just as mortified as every one else is. I never stated that every single person in that stampede was responsible and most here figured that out with out my having to clarify it. 


scarlet


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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:18:15 PM   
lovingpet


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I understand that.  I am saying it is going to be difficult, if not, impossible to separate the maniacs from the innocents and I sure would hope to not wind up in jail because other people could not behave.

Whipping people up year after year with outlandish deals that are never fully delivered upon is okay?  Walmart and any other store that participates in the annual game are culpable for the atmosphere they create.  It takes both a cause and an effect to create a consequence.

lovingpet

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:22:18 PM   
Lynnxz


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They should do it like Best Buy and hand out tickets that you must redeem for the item. Granted, some people might fight over the tickets, but short of tazer wielding robot security guards, what are you going to do?

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:23:44 PM   
lovingpet


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Not over promise and understock?

lovingpet

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:27:38 PM   
Lynnxz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Not over promise and understock?

lovingpet


They usually say it's limited supply. *shrug*


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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:30:12 PM   
MrQwerty


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I was thinking "Gigantic steel people funnel"

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:32:35 PM   
Lynnxz


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Cattle chute? 

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:36:52 PM   
MrQwerty


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Indeed we will feed them in bulk non consolidated form and they will come out single file through the door. This is the hope, this is the dream, tomorrow a better today etc.

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 5:38:34 PM   
lovingpet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Not over promise and understock?

lovingpet


They usually say it's limited supply. *shrug*



Well there's a difference between gosh we never anticipated this many folks wanting this and plotting to only have two of the most sought after items (corporate level, not individual stores/employees mind you).  Further, there was a time when that was not on the ads and companies honored the price the entire length of the sale by means of rain checks if needed.  There was less, though still too much, chaos.  As long as there are big deals and a limited time window, there will be a bit of craziness involved, but it is now well out of hand.  This has been going on for some time and the underhandedness gets worse each passing year.  It's time to clean it up or do away altogether.  This really has to stop.

lovingpet 

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 6:11:39 PM   
mistoferin


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Gosh folks, this isn't the first stampede death and it surely won't be the last. All one has to do is look back at the lawsuits and how they got settled to see who will be held responsible in this. When a venue advertises in such a manner as to create a mob and someone gets hurt...the venue is accountable.

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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 6:19:33 PM   
winterlight


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That was my point i was trying to make. Wal Mart must resonably provide a safe work environment that is why i said they should have had numbers or something like that.


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RE: Black Friday Death at Wal-Mart - 11/29/2008 6:34:51 PM   
painpup


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I NEVER will shop at Walmart. Walmart was single handedly the end of Main Street America. Mom and Pop Hardware store could not compete. They are also responsible for the death of manufacturing in America. To compete with the low prices WalMArt would pay the only recourse for the manufacturers was to outsource to other countries. I feel much better going to TArget. If people would be willing to not always take the cheapest price, we may still have jobs in manufacturing in the US.
Amen. previous posters have pointed out that Costco imports Chinese goods as well. That may be; I only go there for bulk food. Their business practices are far more ethical than Wallyworld's.
Here's why Walmart sucks:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3836296181471292925&q=wal-mart
i just watched this all the way threw it does say it all just say NO TO WALLMART Bravo Hippiekinkster victories can happen i've personally seen the devistation by WallyMart and SAM's small town america DIES

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