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2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 5:50:11 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMJP9ep_VABDoexPPDXfIDbnJL6gD94O8DFG0
Two people were shot to death in a crowded toy store on Black Friday in a confrontation apparently involving rival groups, city officials said.Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other. Ferguson said he asked police whether the incident was a dispute over a toy or whether it was gang-related. He said police told him they were not going to release further details until the victims' relatives were notified.

Sorry to the gun people but I cant see the benefits... just fear and paranoia. This isnt hunting, this isnt defending, this is stupidity.
Ive been in knife fights,and threatened with a shotgun(in a robbery)
Ive shot guns(mostly shotguns and rifles) but I still dont feel the need to have the right to carry one just in case.... But then Im english living in canada, its  not been the culture. Im happy for that.
Lucy



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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 6:10:27 PM   
Evility


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Status: offline 		I'm happy you live in Canada, too. I've even happier that you are not in the position to make decisions about my rights. It never ceases to amaze me that gun control advocates do not understand that those who break the law with handguns now will continue to break the law with handguns after you take them away from the rest of us.



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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 6:20:09 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Where on earth did I say that I want to remove your rights? Im more than well aware of the 2nd amendment and how unlikely it is to be repealed. We come from different cultures thats all. calm down this chick aint about denying you anything.
With all due respect
Lucy



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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 6:26:01 PM   
lovingpet


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Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline 		I will have an opinion on this when there is more information.  This could be absolutely anything at this point.  Regardless, it has nothing to do with gun control.  It has everything to do with any other number of things, but violent crime is a symptom not the root issue.

lovingpet

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 6:32:22 PM   
Raechard


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Would it make you feel different if the assailant had a permit and acted in a moment of madness? We’ve all experienced road rage drivers endangering our lives because they feel invincible with a car why wouldn't the same happen with a gun, seems logical to me.

The problem is all people that do this are portrayed as cold hearted criminals rather than normal individuals that temporarily lose their sanity.
 

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 6:44:43 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Sorry to the gun people but I cant see the benefits... just fear and paranoia. This isnt hunting, this isnt defending, this is stupidity.

Hmmm......two stupid people removed themselves from the gene pool and you don't see a benefit?


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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 6:49:34 PM   
khalya


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Status: offline 		It wasn't the gun that did the harm, it was the idiots wielding the gun. I have always wondered why people are so stupid.

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 6:52:11 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: khalya

It wasn't the gun that did the harm, it was the idiots wielding the gun. I have always wondered why people are so stupid.

Genetics, most likely.

Best argument for wide ownership of guns there is--improves the gene pool while simulatneously improving society.


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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 6:53:28 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

The problem is all people that do this are portrayed as cold hearted criminals rather than normal individuals that temporarily lose their sanity.

Someone who shoots someone else over a toy is something other than a "cold hearted criminal"?

Not in my book.

If it's gang related, same difference.


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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 7:06:43 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		From where Im sitting  theres no improvement when guns are involved. my opinion, and yours of course differs.... If death was the result of all stupidity, we would have very few people living. But then you have to define what stupidity is. I suspect we could come up with a lot of definitions that would be agreeable, but a hell of a lot that wouldnt.
Lucy


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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 7:17:21 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		First off, what kind of an asshole needs a gun in "Toys-R-Us?"  I completely support gun rights but that was unnecessary to begin with.  If you're making a money drop at the bank after a store closes, you may very well need a gun.  If you are making deliveries in a bad neighborhood, you definately need one.  If you are shopping for toys, you only need a fucking checkbook and a list unless you are a psycho dumbass who plans to shoot someone.  Just my opinion.

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 7:23:47 PM   
lovingpet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard


Would it make you feel different if the assailant had a permit and acted in a moment of madness? We’ve all experienced road rage drivers endangering our lives because they feel invincible with a car why wouldn't the same happen with a gun, seems logical to me.

The problem is all people that do this are portrayed as cold hearted criminals rather than normal individuals that temporarily lose their sanity.
 


I never said anything about cold hearted criminals (though I somehow doubt any sort of altruism in this).  There are other underlying factors even if it is a case of "snapping".  There are a lot of conditions both within the person and the context of the situation that need addressing.  The gun in the hand matters little.  They could have choked each other to death.  Two people are dead.  That is violent.  Whether or not it is cold hearted is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. 

I tend think a person will respond to extreme stress out of the excess of their character.  If I snapped, I would be in a corner somewhere crying, rather than blowing someone's head off.  We all respond to stress in various ways.  The source of the stress and addressing the means of coping with that stress would be far more effective than moaning and groaning over the fact that guns were used in this case.

lovingpet    

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 7:25:26 PM   
MadRabbit


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Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Were the guns legally licensed and obtained in the names of the gang members or were they guns they obtained illegally?

Edited to Add : I appreciate the tear jerking emotional story about a shoot out in a children's toy story to help promote anti-gun ownership.

I was going to start another thread about a poor child being mentally handicapped from her mother's use of crack during her pregnancy in promotion of anti-drug laws.

Then I remembered crack is already illegal.

The law doesn't seem to stop the flow of such stories though.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 11/28/2008 7:30:47 PM >

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 7:34:46 PM   
Irishknight


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Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		The very fact that they were in a toy store makes them in the wrong.  Many stores have signs on the doors stating no concealed carry inside.  I have seen them on Toys-R-Us doors in other places. 
By its very nature, the store is a place where there will be lots of children.  I believe that it would qualify in a number of states as a violation of their laws to carry a handgun into such a place.  I realize the laws were written with schools and daycares in mind but toy stores would probably qualify under the intentionalla ambiguous legalese spoken by state legislators.

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/28/2008 8:51:00 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		The full report on this situation is not finished but here are initial interviews from some witnesses at the scene from a local TV station, KCAL.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=4226712&cl=10880992&src=news


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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/29/2008 2:09:40 AM   
tweedydaddy


Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		Ban all handguns now, we did and we don't miss them, the gun loving lobby talk a lot of macho bullshit, but when it call comes down to it, leaving so many handguns in the hands of so many people is madness.
The right to bear arms was established a few hundred years ago by a slave owning elite, America is not the country it was then, you gave up the slaves, now  for God's sake get rid of the guns.
With no apology to the gun people at all.

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/29/2008 5:16:48 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMJP9ep_VABDoexPPDXfIDbnJL6gD94O8DFG0
Two people were shot to death in a crowded toy store on Black Friday in a confrontation apparently involving rival groups, city officials said.Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other. Ferguson said he asked police whether the incident was a dispute over a toy or whether it was gang-related. He said police told him they were not going to release further details until the victims' relatives were notified.

Sorry to the gun people but I cant see the benefits... just fear and paranoia. This isnt hunting, this isnt defending, this is stupidity.
Ive been in knife fights,and threatened with a shotgun(in a robbery)
Ive shot guns(mostly shotguns and rifles) but I still dont feel the need to have the right to carry one just in case.... But then Im english living in canada, its  not been the culture. Im happy for that.
Lucy




Do you honestly believe that the 2 gang members would not have had guns, if they had been illegal?  Do you really think they cared if they were breaking any laws?  Maybe you don't have a problem with your rights and freedoms being ripped away, but I do.

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/29/2008 5:25:08 AM   
thishereboi


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Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweedydaddy

Ban all handguns now, we did and we don't miss them, the gun loving lobby talk a lot of macho bullshit, but when it call comes down to it, leaving so many handguns in the hands of so many people is madness.
The right to bear arms was established a few hundred years ago by a slave owning elite, America is not the country it was then, you gave up the slaves, now  for God's sake get rid of the guns.
With no apology to the gun people at all.


I think it is just wonderful that you live in a country that doesn't allow guns. I think it is great that you agree with these laws. I don't want those rights taken away in this country and really don't see why it is any of your business. Just because you don't have a problem with your government taking away your rights, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you or wants to live like you do.

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/29/2008 5:35:59 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		get your guns now.   the govt is the burglar.

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RE: 2 dead after shots fired in Toys 'R' Us - 11/29/2008 6:12:50 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I expect these two individuals came across the range of toy guns and militaria and this influenced them to shoot each other

(the sort of ridiculous explanation that would be advanced by certain quarters here)

E

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