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RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 9:29:48 AM   
AngelGeena


Posts: 1324
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline 		Staples...ouch  *shudders*

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 9:51:53 AM   
slaveforsure


Posts: 17
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Sir will keep me out of subspace for as long as he wants...and sometimes he won't let me go there at all. (Yes, an experienced Top is very capable of doing that) If he told me that I would never be allowed to go there though, well, to be really honest that is not a dynamic that would meet my needs.


Well, I’m really glad to know I’m not alone in this aspect of things. My Master – being a sadist as well has a very similar mindset – sometimes he wants me aware of the pain he’s administering, other times he’ll let me float off.   As kyra stated – it’s nowhere near as satisfying for him if I’m off in la-la-land.
My Master can read my body and reactions very well so he’s capable of keeping me alert or letting me “slip away” depending on his mood or the situation.  From personal experience – I think it’s totally up to him whether or not I get there – there’s really nothing I can do to make myself go to subspace or keep from slipping away, it just kind of happens. I can’t imagine having to beg to go there when you don’t really know when it’s coming.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 9:52:33 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Sounds like they know what they want and are informing you of that.  It's very generous to allow you to be able to beg for it on occasion.

Unfortunately bottoms tend to become addicted to subspace and care for that more than the scene dynamics and experience itself.  This can become a problem if the bottom is also a submissive and claims to want to submit to the dominants preferences.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to AngelGeena)
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RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 10:15:06 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveforsure
From personal experience – I think it’s totally up to him whether or not I get there – there’s really nothing I can do to make myself go to subspace or keep from slipping away, it just kind of happens. I can’t imagine having to beg to go there when you don’t really know when it’s coming.



Actually, Sir and I both have to work pretty hard sometimes to keep me from going there. I know the way there really well and NOT going there is a lot harder for both of us than going there.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to slaveforsure)
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RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 11:25:18 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Sounds like they know what they want and are informing you of that.  It's very generous to allow you to be able to beg for it on occasion.

Unfortunately bottoms tend to become addicted to subspace and care for that more than the scene dynamics and experience itself.  This can become a problem if the bottom is also a submissive and claims to want to submit to the dominants preferences.


I agree with everything you said here, completely. With my former owner, his pleasure was the purpose of our play. I was his toy to use in whatever way pleased him, and my pleasure came from knowing he was enjoying himself. For me, that was the whole point of submitting to him - to please him - and my fulfillment came from that.

That said, he mostly wanted me in subspace whenever possible, because he could better manipulate me while there and I was more vulnerable to him there. However, he could zap me out of space in a heartbeat or he could prevent me from going there to begin with if he wanted to. I'm pretty sure I would miss going there if never allowed again, but as you said, I find it very generous to be allowed to beg for it.

For me, being owned meant existing for his pleasure and his whim. I wasn't into our play for my own physical satisfaction, although I was always grateful when he allowed it. But more than that, I was grateful for the opportunity to please him.

With the dom I am seeing now, he gets a lot of pleasure out of giving as much as he receives. I am learning to adapt to that because it is my nature to automatically sacrifice my own desires for his, and he doesn't want me to do that. The last time we were together he was very giving, and his generosity overwhelmed me. He doesn't play in a way that brings me to subspace, but this is balanced out by the other things he gives me. I am in completely unchartered territory here!

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 11:45:36 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Lots of good responses here.  I'm also ambivalent about subspace.  Yes, it makes me feel great and powerful to induce it.  Behold how I have reduced her to mindless quivering flesh!  But, as several other people have said, I also want her to be right there and cognizant of her circumstances, not in lala-land.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 11:58:25 AM   
moonvine


Posts: 780
Joined: 11/7/2004
Status: offline 		Most of my play for the past 10 years has been non sub space play as the doms either haven't known how to get me there or just haven't done it.  When I was with someone who knew how to get me there I think they felt it more of an accomplishment and not something to beg for.  I'm more accustomed to begging for orgasms.

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 12:06:50 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

Hi everyone,
I have been informed that I will no longer be permitted to go into sub space when we play.  They seem to enjoy the little eeps and oochies and nonsense that come out of my mouth when I'm kept fully aware.  I'll be allowed to beg for sub space on special occasions *like leap day ahem. 

Anyone else in this situation?  Any thoughts?

well wishes,
*tgfkasunshine


Himself is very stingy about taking me to subspace I imagine because it gets pretty boring, pretty quick to sit there and beat on an inanimate object. Special occasions (like my birthday) he'll let me go, but otherwise, his thing is the 'reaction' he elicits so very little floating around in subspace for me. Subspace is such a treat, that I'm always very grateful when he does take me there .. it has become special for it's rarity.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 1:55:58 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline 		Sub space confuses me, my head can and will go fuggy, but, I still have conversations, am aware, know what's going on.  In some ways I becomes less responsive when I'm not enjoying it and having to work hard to take it.  I'm so focused on "getting through" that everything else fades into the background.  I confuse myself, but, I do tend to only let go and drift after all the hitting and hurting is over, I don't feel "safe" when there's still violence going on.  And needles, I have no control over my head and reactions when there are needles involved.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 2:06:17 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
With the dom I am seeing now, he gets a lot of pleasure out of giving as much as he receives. I am learning to adapt to that because it is my nature to automatically sacrifice my own desires for his, and he doesn't want me to do that.

I know I sound like a broken record but same here.  Everybody always talks about the difference between serving your Master the way YOU want to versus the way HE wants to be served and I know, for me and lots of others, it was something I had to work through.  My Master is not a sadist at heart and doesn't get off on doing lots of sadistic things at random moments.  When I became His, I guess I was expecting more "sacrificing," "suffering," and or "pain."  That is not, however, what He desires.  Complete ownership and control - knowing I don't make decisions that are not pleasing or sanctioned by Him - is what I feel He gets off on most.  That's cool.  In addition, it is very pleasing to Him to give me pleasure and fulfill desires that I have in addition to His own.  As you often say, NuevaVida, it was a bit difficult in the beginning to get used to that and "see" it as "serving" Him.  But, I grew to see that if I'm doing EXACTLY what He desires, then I'm serving Him the best I can in the ways He wants.  If that doesn't involve sadism and suffering, so be it.  Deferring to Him in all manners on all things is the way I serve and if that involves not always totally sacrificing what I'd like, I guess I can live with that......luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to NuevaVida)
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RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 2:07:04 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Sometimes he wants me to go deep into that space and to enjoy it. I think he knows it's a stress reliever for me and he likes to know I'm being pleasured at times as well.

There are times though when his sadism comes out and he wants to hear the cries, the moans, the agony, the sheer torment and the tears.

If I was never ever allowed ever again to feel subspace though I don't think I'd last for long in such a relationship. I need a nice balance and I don't wanna go through life always being aggravated and frustrated.

In the end though it just depends on his mood and desires.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 2:34:10 PM   
SlaveBlutarsky


Posts: 491
Joined: 10/10/2005
From: Upstate, NY
Status: offline 		Interesting topic and discussion. It never even occurred to me that subspace was a controllable environment, but in reading some of the responses, it certainly appears that way. I tend to go into subspace if there's a slight breeze and domme withing a 3 mile radius, so it may be a difficult thing to manage. It's very intriguing to think about the active denial of subspace for punishment/discipline though, 

_____________________________

Strong for all, weak for one

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 2:52:43 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci
As you often say, NuevaVida, it was a bit difficult in the beginning to get used to that and "see" it as "serving" Him.  But, I grew to see that if I'm doing EXACTLY what He desires, then I'm serving Him the best I can in the ways He wants.  If that doesn't involve sadism and suffering, so be it.  Deferring to Him in all manners on all things is the way I serve and if that involves not always totally sacrificing what I'd like, I guess I can live with that......luci


Yeah, I'm learning to live with that, too. My former owner really enjoyed my suffering, so it's hard to shift the mindset while "new man" enjoys doing for me. When we were last together, he actually put my feet in his lap and relaxed himself by rubbing them while watching TV. I literally laughed and said, "Are you serious???"

And one of these days, luci, we're going to have to disagree on something and duke it out, lol.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 3:11:03 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Usually towards the end of play, he will let us drift off and enjoy.


That's pretty much the same here....but he wants a whole lot of hurting before we get there.


Now that im not getting to play with M as often as i like due to distance, i have noticed that when we play, he is giving me exactly what and how much i need to have like, an ideal scene...all thud with a touch of sting but not too much, just enough kissing and body contact to keep me coming...and its fabulous...but it occurs to me, i am kind of missing the struggle...the events that i have to overcome or endure before getting what i need in the end to take me over....hmmm....gawd, that doesnt make me a masochist or something, does it??
im kind of missing the "whole lotta hurting" aspect now.....damn, am i never satisfied?

perse

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 3:39:14 PM   
AStudyInScarlet


Posts: 79
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
When we were last together, he actually put my feet in his lap and relaxed himself by rubbing them while watching TV.


hahah that's how my boyfriend likes to relax too. my foot rubs aren't for me, they're for him. he's a foot man. you won't hear me complaining.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 3:54:10 PM   
ishyB


Posts: 555
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: offline 		Hi nameless chicky, (They are taking a long time, aren't they? I'm committing a cardinal sin here cause I'm curious as hell!)
 
I've gotta ask you something about this. If you are not allowed to float off to subspace when playing, how is the difference made between play and punishment?
Is it just the intent that counts? Or does the fact that you enjoy play makes that the whip doesn't come out in punishment?
 
Also, do you still enjoy play now that you are no longer off to subspace? Does the fact that they derive pleasure from it make up for lost endorphin highs?
 
Master has never played with me before.
He has never really forbidden me to go off to subspace during punishment, but I'm incredibly hard to get there and the way he does it doesn't leave any chance of even getting close to subspace.
I'm wondering now if he would allow me to go there should he ever chose to play with me, but him being his trustworthy self he is refusing to tell me...
 
I wish you well,
 
ishy

< Message edited by ishyB -- 11/30/2008 3:55:08 PM >

(in reply to sunshinemiss)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 3:58:28 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB
if you are not allowed to float off to subspace when playing, how is the difference made between play and punishment?
Is it just the intent that counts? Or does the fact that you enjoy play makes that the whip doesn't come out in punishment?

Punishment = serious behavioral transgression needing harsh correction

Play = cuz the dom wants it
quote:


Also, do you still enjoy play now that you are no longer off to subspace? Does the fact that they derive pleasure from it make up for lost endorphin highs?

I don't get endorphin highs, I'm not addicted to subspace and rarely go there, so perhaps it's easier for me, I don't play expecting to go there and quite enjoy play without it.

Let's not forget that impact/pain/endorphin inducing play is actually only a subset of kinky play, no matter how much more it may get discussed and seen.
 


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to ishyB)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 4:42:09 PM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: ishyB
if you are not allowed to float off to subspace when playing, how is the difference made between play and punishment?
Is it just the intent that counts? Or does the fact that you enjoy play makes that the whip doesn't come out in punishment?

Punishment = serious behavioral transgression needing harsh correction

Play = cuz the dom wants it
quote:


Also, do you still enjoy play now that you are no longer off to subspace? Does the fact that they derive pleasure from it make up for lost endorphin highs?

I don't get endorphin highs, I'm not addicted to subspace and rarely go there, so perhaps it's easier for me, I don't play expecting to go there and quite enjoy play without it.

Let's not forget that impact/pain/endorphin inducing play is actually only a subset of kinky play, no matter how much more it may get discussed and seen.
 



LA...

You dont get the endorphin rush? Sometimes i feel like im a junkie waiting for him to rig me up when im waiting to be played...my whole body is singing for it...but if it werent for the endorphins...well, that would just be a beating. What, if i might ask, do you get out of a scene when youre bottoming?

Thankyou
perse

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 4:59:47 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well as I said, "Let's not forget that impact/pain/endorphin inducing play is actually only a subset of kinky play, no matter how much more it may get discussed and seen."

I get adrenaline highs, seratonin highs, all sorts of chemical and emotional highs from playing.  Just not endorphins.  Play doesn't just mean beatings.  I'm not a masochist, I don't convert painful stimulations into pleasureable ones.  But there's a huge huge world of play out there which involves no pain or beating or impact whatsoever.  Read my kinks list on my profile and see just a few :)

As I've long said "I love everything about pain play except the pain part" 

Yes, that makes beatings "just beatings" to me but it means they are enjoying their sadism, knowing that I'm NOT enjoying it, that it's ACTUAL pain, knowing that I'm submitting and serving their desires and preferences, knowing that I've endured, knowing that I'll have marks to gloat over later, knowing he wants to play with me at all.  You know, everything BUT the pain part.

I'm not a masochist, so I don't have that conflict a lot of masochists tend to have when they play with someone who isn't a service top or fluffy sadist.  But it does mean I endure a lifetime of being told "You just haven't had it done RIGHT yet."

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Non-sub space play - 11/30/2008 5:09:34 PM   
sexisubi


Posts: 373
Joined: 11/23/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

*blink* How are they planning on keeping you out of sub space? Hit you for a minute or two then leave you alone? *boggles*


wtf? agree with above!

(in reply to aravain)
Profile   Post #: 40
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