RE: Mold me? (Full Version)

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NuevaVida -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 10:03:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy


You are right. I should try to be more open minded. But here is my question for you. You said he shaped you and helped you. But did he elimiate the spark of who you are inside of you?
I see and talk to Dom's who think it would be so "cool" to eliminate all trace of what a person was and completely make them over into their "doll". That, I can't accept.


Hi MidMichCowboy, I hope you don't mind if I also take a stab at answering this, since I was also molded by my former owner.

No, he did not eliminate the spark within me. In fact, I allowed the life I had lived to dull that spark, and through submitting to him and following his path of shaping me, that spark reappeared, brighter than ever.

There seems to be a misnomer that molding and shaping means stripping down who someone was and rebuilding them. That certainly was not the case with me. While he worked with me to strip my baggage away, he mostly worked on developing my thought process - teaching me discernment and self analysis, and how to create boundaries for myself and trust myself. As he did so, the "real me" emerged and came shining through. Nor did I ever once feel like he was posing as my therapist (I had a therapist, who taught me other things I needed to learn) because of the way he dealt with me. He did not want to be an armchair therapist. He did want to push me through certain tasks and expectations that would result in me learning myself and what I am capable of by setting a very high bar which I continued to strive to meet. In looking back, the bar wasn't so high at all when we started, but it felt high for me at the time. When I would reach it, it would inch a bit higher, and so on. What was required of me always required a lot of effort, based on my abilities at the time. Where I started and where I ended up were very different places. We are no longer together, and while there are pains related to the end of that relationship, I will always be grateful for what I gained from it.

I can understand concern over a dominant turning someone into their dolly doll. In my case, his desire was to bring me to be a better me, so I could better serve him from a place of inner strength, and he was very proud of both of our work. There was no "recreating" who I am. What there was, was bringing out the best of who I am, and what I am capable of.



NuevaVida -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 10:04:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Beautiful additions, you two.



Thank you for the kind words, NihilusZero.



sexisubi -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 10:06:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Okay...I've only casually glanced at some of the initial and final posts. Are many people really this discomforted by the concept of "molding"? What do you think the entirety of D/s relationships are based on? A contented sub wishing to learn how to change things to better serve her Dom. A conscientious Domme guiding her sub along to a path of better self-image.

Compatibility is only a foyer doorway. It's the good first step to ensure that both people want to be in the same 'building', but molding is (it would seem to me) an integral bonding process in D/s relationships. Of course there will be folks who identify themselves as D-types who don't actually have the wherewithal to properly guide someone...but how is that any more a realistic epiphany than the fact that there are fake accounts on an online community?

Perhaps I'm projecting some of my own thoughts, but I can't imagine a D/s relationship where the sub didn't choose her Dom based on the fact that she saw him as being worthy/competent to play the role of mentor, teacher and objective partner.



this is kinda where i tried to fit my post: you know i was talking my Master about this and he made an excellent point!

Some people are trying to find self worth. For some self worth is being found worthy to others, the issue with this is that once that person that made them feel worthy is gone then at that point the sub feel hollow and empty again. The point of a Dom is to show them that the submissive is stronger then they think. A submissive needs to realize what makes them golden so when they no longer have that person, that Dom, that moment, they can still think of themselves as worthy and beautiful. Growing with in a relationship is a thing Dom's want to be perminant, not just until They are gone.

However self improvement i don't think as 'molding' persay. In my opinion people attempt to find Doms to solve issues... and you can't find someone to fix you... you can find someone to talk to, who is your piller your steppingstone, your only light in your dark cave. these are actually good feelings and in reality i think everyone can agree that there is some improvements and adjustments that are made more so in D/s then any thing else. In nilla they call them comprimises... in D/s they call them protocalls = P (small joke)

However, i still personally don't buy 'molding' transforming someones thoughts and changing them from who they are to what is wanted by that Dom... a Dom can unlock doors and have you do things that They like cause well isn't that the nature of it all. So yes some training is involved... but i dont think anyone can truly be scrapped down and made over again.  



NihilusZero -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 10:22:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

Some people are trying to find self worth. For some self worth is being found worthy to others, the issue with this is that once that person that made them feel worthy is gone then at that point the sub feel hollow and empty again.

There is a feeling of loss and loneliness for anyone after the disintegration of a relationship. I don't feel a submissive should necessarily garner/need any additional affirmative action post-relationship care than anyone else. There are different ways that a submissive may need to deal with not having their pillar there, but I think that's more style than degree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

The point of a Dom is to show them that the submissive is stronger then they think.

I'd say the point of a D-type is to clear the vision of the sub so they can see themselves as they are...whether negative or positive.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

A submissive needs to realize what makes them golden so when they no longer have that person, that Dom, that moment, they can still think of themselves as worthy and beautiful. Growing with in a relationship is a thing Dom's want to be perminant, not just until They are gone.

If the former Dom's attempts at giving the sub something to feel beautiful about were genuine, they should transcend the end of the relationship. Unless, of course, the relationship ends badly with lots of angered words tossed about that effectively cancel out the previous ones....but that's, again, an issue of the relationship itself as opposed to the dynamic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

However self improvement i don't think as 'molding' persay. In my opinion people attempt to find Doms to solve issues... and you can't find someone to fix you... you can find someone to talk to, who is your piller your steppingstone, your only light in your dark cave.

We find people to fix us all the time. We are biological creatures and even our emotions are born of the same biological matter. If we would seek out a chiropractor to "fix" our back, or a surgeon to "fix" our arteries then I'm not sure how seeking out someone else to fix something emotional is any different. The key point that I think you're trying to make, though, is that the desire to "fix" must start with the individual...in this case, the sub. I would totally agree with this. Coincidentally, this almost perfectly parallels the process of a submissive deciding on a Dominant to surrender to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

However, i still personally don't buy 'molding' transforming someones thoughts and changing them from who they are to what is wanted by that Dom...

Because you don't think it's possible (in which case, reference and cult-developed mentality)...or because you don't think it's ethically honest (even if the suib has made that decision)?

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexisubi

a Dom can unlock doors and have you do things that They like cause well isn't that the nature of it all. So yes some training is involved... but i dont think anyone can truly be scrapped down and made over again.  

Each of us probably has psychological stains that are likely never to come out no matter how many wash cycles we go through, true. But even with that being the case, we learn how to function in spite of them. Molding is just a vehicle directing us in the path of that functioning.



agirl -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 10:35:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I'd far rather be guided in being the best me for me , than the best me for him. I'd think far less of him if he spent his time moulding me for his own ends.


I personally enjoy the way you expressed this, but that's just me.  Too often though, the response would be that you cannot be a *real* slave with an attitude like that.  Which is an opinion that I find often accompanies the "molding to suit my needs" crowd.
 
And I would give that opinion a bit of respect if I felt that, even for a moment, it was realistic.  But since it's just fantasy portrayed as reality (ie: a lie), I don't feel compelled in the least to be respectful of it.
 
John


They'd be right. I'm not a *real slave*;  I'm a real me.

I've always seen 'moulding' as being influenced. I don't have any negative connotations surrounding it, though some people seem to.

agirl


















Rover -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 10:48:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I've always seen 'moulding' as being influenced. I don't have any negative connotations surrounding it, though some people seem to.


I can't speak for everyone, of course.  But I have no issue with the way in which most folks describe "molding"... which is to say that it's realistic.  I fully accept that anyone has the capacity to be molded/influenced/trained/coached to fully become whatever they have the potential to become. 
 
Where I (and perhaps others) begin to take issue is when potential is portrayed as limitless (ie: anyone can become anything their Dominant wishes to mold them into).  That crosses the line from realism to fantasy. 
 
I'm not surprised that the vast majority of folks posting here have remained clearly on the side of realism.  But that does not mean that everyone does.  Cripes, take a stroll through the other side and that becomes rather obvious. 
 
John



Stroke -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 10:55:06 AM)

I'm not going to discuss a Dom saying he will mold you. That goes nowhere unless the sub/slave is open to it. I would focus more on the sub/slave who has a desire to be molded. Someone with that mindframe has an intense desire to feel controlled, even to the point of becoming exactly what her master wants her to be. I see no issue with that at all. It is her intense desire to please which brings her to that state of mind. Saying "mold me" is just another way of saying, "I wish to be whatever you want me to be". 



NuevaVida -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 11:01:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Where I (and perhaps others) begin to take issue is when potential is portrayed as limitless (ie: anyone can become anything their Dominant wishes to mold them into).  That crosses the line from realism to fantasy. 



I'll agree with this, John, but it seems most folks respond negatively to "molding" because they are placing the "fantasy" descriptor to it. It's good to keep things in perspective, and understand there is healthy/good molding and unhealthy/bad molding. It would be nice (but perhaps unlikely?) if the automatic nay-sayers could keep that in mind.



oceanwynds -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 11:05:07 AM)

Why people would need to have a dominant mold them is one thing I do not understand. Personally, I cannot comprehend wanting anyone to work me like clay and mold me into a new character/persona.
There might be things you prefer me to do as a submissive that I can learn, but I would hope a person would be interested in me for who I am. Get to know me first, and if it is something that interests you, great.
Now, give me a chunk of clay and have me mold something for you, along with a potter's wheel, I would try:)
oceanwynds



camille65 -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 11:07:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MidMichCowboy

You are right. I should try to be more open minded. But here is my question for you. You said he shaped you and helped you. But did he elimiate the spark of who you are inside of you?
I see and talk to Dom's who think it would be so "cool" to eliminate all trace of what a person was and completely make them over into their "doll". That, I can't accept.


Heh, it was quite the opposite actually. I had killed my own spark and truly did not believe that it could be found again.

R put me on an eating regime, sent me to doctors. Managed my medication for me, organized my bill paying. Changed out my wardrobe. Those are just a few of the changes he implemented.

Its like... I was a human that had become a block of wood. Rigid and encased in layers that I'd carefully built up. Somehow he saw past that, he saw the potential 'me' inside and then he went to work carving away the excess until both me and my spark could be seen again.



NuevaVida -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 11:08:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds

Why people would need to have a dominant mold them is one thing I do not understand.


A lot of reasons have been explained in this thread.

quote:


Personally, I cannot comprehend wanting anyone to work me like clay and mold me into a new character/persona.

Nor would I! But that's not how molding went for me.

quote:


There might be things you prefer me to do as a submissive that I can learn, but I would hope a person would be interested in me for who I am. Get to know me first, and if it is something that interests you, great.

Always a good approach.

quote:



Now, give me a chunk of clay and have me mold something for you, along with a potter's wheel, I would try:)
oceanwynds

Now you're talking! I had my first experience with making a bowl on my sister-in-law's wheel a few months ago and it was amazingly wonderful, fun, therapeutic, fascinating...I'm hooked!!



agirl -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 11:32:41 AM)

I don't 'need' a dominant to mould me..I actively LIKE being moulded and am open to it. I welcome the chance to develop bits of me that are a bit stuck and clogged. It doesn't have to be a dominant. There are all sorts of other people that have done their bit in regards to moulding me, though I have to admit that M is better placed to make it most effective.

It's an extreme view to imagine it as being changed into a different person altogether.

agirl







oceanwynds -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 11:47:45 AM)

quote:


Now you're talking! I had my first experience with making a bowl on my sister-in-law's wheel a few months ago and it was amazingly wonderful, fun, therapeutic, fascinating...I'm hooked!!



Thinking seriously in purchasing a pottery wheel and get back into molding clay.

Back to molding, I think we take on characteristics of those we are involved in. Some areas in my life Sir helped me to become better, yet the need and desire both were there by me. Still don't feel that is molding per say. Couching yes, yet to me they aren't the same thing in my mind.



oceanwynds -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 11:52:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I don't 'need' a dominant to mould me..I actively LIKE being moulded and am open to it. I welcome the chance to develop bits of me that are a bit stuck and clogged. It doesn't have to be a dominant. There are all sorts of other people that have done their bit in regards to moulding me, though I have to admit that M is better placed to make it most effective.

It's an extreme view to imagine it as being changed into a different person altogether.

agirl

 
In my mind, when I have heard others talking about being molded, not from this post, was someone willing to become an empty vessel to be filled up and made brand -new. Almost like the Stepford Wifes movie. So when I read the question, that was were my mind went too immediately. I must confess that I didn't read all the posts from this thread, but have gone back and found some interesting points, as always. :)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 









sexisubi -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 11:53:59 AM)

Nihilus,

You are correct in soo many ways... i cannot disagree with anything that is said cause in many ways they are correct...

However, you asked me a question about molding... the reason i dont 'buy molding' is maybe because my perception of it is different then others. i personally view molding as a form of brainwashing... breaking a person down before rebuilding them back up... it's the breaking down that i disagree with. i'm not talking about zooming in on a paiting and then ever so gently zooming out and adding ones own touchs to the mix. i'm talking about scrapping that painting and making a whole new one. Usually, this process can be a very tough one and an emotionally unstable one... cause to break a person is just wrong in my opinion.

Many people i have come into contact with have some bearing on my life... even if i might not have know their names... it could have been something i over heard or maybe it was the look they gave me.. or maybe it was the joy i brought to thier life in a very brief moment, or the joy they brought to mine. Does this effect my perception? of course... Does this change me into a new painting? no, just adds some strokes. my Master does many things to push me through different things and challenges my perceptions and helps me see things in a different light. None of these things are breaking me but i will say i have 'grown' a lot because of it. 'growing' to me is different then 'molding,' anyway i hope this made sense... =)

So i guess for me its just the way i view molding. when i think molding i think a person taking another person and creating the person they want... but it doesnt matter if anything is left of the person or not.  



Icarys -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 12:14:14 PM)

I mold myself so why not a submissive. I work on things like patience when I want to tell someone they are full of crap..It doesn't always stop me but it helps. I mold a females attitude if I don't like it. I mold her body. I mold a lot of things.

I'm big on compatibility but everyone has stuff they need to work on, If you think you don't, I would suggest you start working on denial.



KnightofMists -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 12:25:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Add it to the loooooooooong list of BDSM concepts that make us all look silly.
 


I have you know that the "Play-DO" submissives are not a silly concept ;)  There are usually moldable into anything you might like... but you need to be careful of what you pickup at the store.. some of the more cheaper brands are actually "Play-Do-ME"  and you can only mold them into what they want... It's all about them.



Rover -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 12:31:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Add it to the loooooooooong list of BDSM concepts that make us all look silly.
 


I have you know that the "Play-DO" submissives are not a silly concept ;)  There are usually moldable into anything you might like... but you need to be careful of what you pickup at the store.. some of the more cheaper brands are actually "Play-Do-ME"  and you can only mold them into what they want... It's all about them.


*LMAO*   I'll look for those while I'm Christmas shopping.  ;)
 
Seriously, how many terms can we (collectively) use that are either exaggerations or utter fabrications?  It's a rhetorical question... no need to answer. 
 
John



Icarys -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 12:35:24 PM)

I'll stick with the Play-do's..I find them much more fulfilling than the Play-do-me's



Icarys -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 12:43:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Add it to the loooooooooong list of BDSM concepts that make us all look silly.
 


I have you know that the "Play-DO" submissives are not a silly concept ;)  There are usually moldable into anything you might like... but you need to be careful of what you pickup at the store.. some of the more cheaper brands are actually "Play-Do-ME"  and you can only mold them into what they want... It's all about them.


*LMAO*   I'll look for those while I'm Christmas shopping.  ;)
 
Seriously, how many terms can we (collectively) use that are either exaggerations or utter fabrications?  It's a rhetorical question... no need to answer. 
 
John

Usually I agree with most of what you say John but not on this occasion. I find it hard to believe that you haven't done some molding to get something out of a submissive that you thought needed to be there.

Just to add: I've never had too many problems with the terms we use. They were here before I came here and I'm not gonna try and change them to separate myself so I can be different in some way. (look at how cool I am) I know what they mean to me and that's what works. I keep a level head when using them in my everyday life and I also know what the reality of it all is, for me anyway.



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