RE: Mold me?

RE: Mold me? (Full Version)

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Rover -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:10:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys I don't believe anyone was referring to making someone into something they could not accomplish or anything so outlandish making someone tall from being short. I'm talking of pushing someone or coaxing them into a direction you think they would be happier being. Yes, I know that no one (that I've noticed) in this thread has made such an assertion. Which is why I haven't made a big stink about it. But there are plenty of folks "out there" that do (well, not the short into tall thing). They literally believe in their ability to mold a submissive/slave into whatever they desire them to be (or be molded into whatever their Dominant wishes them to be). And then they're frustrated and disillusioned when the whole thing comes crashing down around them. Probably the result of someone not being a "real" submissive/slave or a "true" Dominant. And for those who remain firmly rooted in realism... I just shake my head in wonder at the use of another fancy sounding term (molding) that just sounds so much more important than guiding/teaching/etc. At best it's over-romanticized exaggeration. At worst, it's the molding someone into whatever you want. Either way, I don't believe it reflects very well on Leather. John

SirJeremy -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:17:45 PM)
I have just recently become a member here and just wanted to state how impressed I am with this thread and the fact that it has not devolved into something ugly... personally, I find it appropriate for a Dominant to mold a submissive more their liking as well as guiding them to help reach their potential... in this way they have more to offer their Dominant. I would also argue that any new submissive needs to be "molded" - by no means stripped of personality, but direction and training is, in a sense "molding" ... I think, ultimately, it is a simple matter of word choice.... Icarys - you are correct about the sculptor and stone or clay analogy. It's like a Dom(me) pick-up line - and I bet many here used it when they first started out and didn't know any better... and it probably worked lol

Icarys -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:19:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys I don't believe anyone was referring to making someone into something they could not accomplish or anything so outlandish making someone tall from being short. I'm talking of pushing someone or coaxing them into a direction you think they would be happier being. Yes, I know that no one (that I've noticed) in this thread has made such an assertion. Which is why I haven't made a big stink about it. But there are plenty of folks "out there" that do (well, not the short into tall thing). They literally believe in their ability to mold a submissive/slave into whatever they desire them to be (or be molded into whatever their Dominant wishes them to be). And then they're frustrated and disillusioned when the whole thing comes crashing down around them. Probably the result of someone not being a "real" submissive/slave or a "true" Dominant. And for those who remain firmly rooted in realism... I just shake my head in wonder at the use of another fancy sounding term (molding) that just sounds so much more important than guiding/teaching/etc. At best it's over-romanticized exaggeration. At worst, it's the molding someone into whatever you want. Either way, I don't believe it reflects very well on Leather. John I'll assure you, I'm firmly rooted and I don't see a problem with it anymore than I do with the term slave when I full well know, under these laws, there is no such thing. Take words for what they are..tools to describe not ascribe. One word is as good as another when leading, teaching, guiding, steering, pushing, dragging, pulling or molding. Lol I've had to do some of all of it. People place the connotations whether negative or not.

Lockit -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:19:59 PM)
Welcome to the boards SirJeremy!

Icarys -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:21:38 PM)
Yes, welcome to the boards.

NuevaVida -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:28:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover I just shake my head in wonder at the use of another fancy sounding term (molding) that just sounds so much more important than guiding/teaching/etc. At best it's over-romanticized exaggeration. At worst, it's the molding someone into whatever you want. Either way, I don't believe it reflects very well on Leather. John This is an area where you & I see things much differently. I don't see the word "molding" as a fancy term, for one. I've been hearing that term for ages, in regards to parenting, whereby parents mold the young minds of their kids into healthy, strong and capable adults. I've heard it in other non-BDSM contexts, too, although I can't remember them right now :) I've never seen it as a romanticized term, either - just a word amongst many words, to describe what one means when helping to form and shape someone's thoughts. Nor have I ever considered its importance - either more or less than other words. That's an idea that never dawned on me. As for a reflection on leather, well, other than a cool red jacket I have...I don't wear leather. [;)] To each their own, of course. It seems we're all focusing and discussing a particular word, when we're all also agreeing that people can and do influence and form the thought process of others all the time.

Rover -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:30:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys I'll assure you, I'm firmly rooted and I don't see a problem with it anymore than I do with the term slave when I full well know, under these laws, there is no such thing. Sorry this is turning into a bit of an off-topic rant, but it's timely in a way that will become evident in a few weeks. Anyway, I know you're firmly rooted in reality. And a term or two that's an exaggeration isn't very meaningful. But there comes a tipping point where the accumulation of exaggerated terms is no longer an isolated instance, and becomes emblematic of BDSM as a whole (ie: it portrays BDSM as fantasy role play). And I have an issue with that. quote: Take words for what they are..tools to describe not ascribe. One word is as good as another when leading, teaching, guiding, steering, pushing, dragging, pulling or molding. Lol I've had to do some of all of it. People place the connotations whether negative or not. I haven't said whether molding was good or bad. Just realistic or unrealistic. John

Icarys -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:38:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys I'll assure you, I'm firmly rooted and I don't see a problem with it anymore than I do with the term slave when I full well know, under these laws, there is no such thing. Sorry this is turning into a bit of an off-topic rant, but it's timely in a way that will become evident in a few weeks. Anyway, I know you're firmly rooted in reality. And a term or two that's an exaggeration isn't very meaningful. But there comes a tipping point where the accumulation of exaggerated terms is no longer an isolated instance, and becomes emblematic of BDSM as a whole (ie: it portrays BDSM as fantasy role play). And I have an issue with that. quote: Take words for what they are..tools to describe not ascribe. One word is as good as another when leading, teaching, guiding, steering, pushing, dragging, pulling or molding. Lol I've had to do some of all of it. People place the connotations whether negative or not. I haven't said whether molding was good or bad. Just realistic or unrealistic. John Well hopefully I'll get to see what it is your alluding to. I've noticed that you've said similar things in the past few weeks I think.

Rover -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:38:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida This is an area where you & I see things much differently. I don't see the word "molding" as a fancy term, for one. I've been hearing that term for ages, in regards to parenting, whereby parents mold the young minds of their kids into healthy, strong and capable adults. And used in a parent/child context, it's far more appropriate in that children really are blank slates when it comes to many things. By in large, children take on the politics of their parents. They take on the religion of their parents. They take on the morals of their parents. It's not the same situation with adults. quote: I've never seen it as a romanticized term, either - just a word amongst many words, to describe what one means when helping to form and shape someone's thoughts. It may not be a romanticized vanilla term, but it is a highly romanticized BDSM term. It's part of an overly romanticized portrayal of power exchange relationships, and can be found in most BDSM oriented erotic fiction novels. quote: As for a reflection on leather, well, other than a cool red jacket I have...I don't wear leather. [;)] I'm not into leather fetish wear either. But Leather is not the same as leather. Leather is the historical term for what we now call BDSM. quote: To each their own, of course. It seems we're all focusing and discussing a particular word, when we're all also agreeing that people can and do influence and form the thought process of others all the time. I agree, of course. But I am a fifth generation degree nit-picker. It's in my genes. John

Rover -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:40:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys Well hopefully I'll get to see what it is your alluding to. I've noticed that you've said similar things in the past few weeks I think. Not to my knowledge, I haven't. It's no big secret... just something I've been working on and don't want it to appear that I'm blowing my own horn. It's much more enjoyable to leave that to someone else. :):):):):) John

Icarys -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:48:06 PM)
It may not be a romanticized vanilla term, but it is a highly romanticized BDSM term. It's part of an overly romanticized portrayal of power exchange relationships, and can be found in most BDSM oriented erotic fiction novels. I'm with you with the romanticizing part. I think too many have their heads in the clouds about what is realistic and what's not but it isn't my place to say they are wrong. I might add too..I don't read "erotic" fiction other than Gorean books.{Grins)

NuevaVida -> RE: Mold me? (12/1/2008 4:52:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover And used in a parent/child context, it's far more appropriate in that children really are blank slates when it comes to many things. By in large, children take on the politics of their parents. They take on the religion of their parents. They take on the morals of their parents. It's not the same situation with adults. Actually this happens quite a bit with adults, D/s or otherwise. I know lots of couples who, after years of marriage, begin to think alike, enjoy the same things, share the same friends, etc. But in non-D/s relationships this isn't necessarily a goal in the relationship, but a formation over time. Where we differ here is in your idea that being a "blank slate" is necessary in order to travel through some molding process (unless I misunderstood that). quote: It may not be a romanticized vanilla term, but it is a highly romanticized BDSM term. It's part of an overly romanticized portrayal of power exchange relationships, and can be found in most BDSM oriented erotic fiction novels. We share different experiences here, although admittedly my experiences are fairly limited overall. quote: I'm not into leather fetish wear either. But Leather is not the same as leather. Leather is the historical term for what we now call BDSM. I know. I was joking. quote: I agree, of course. But I am a fifth generation degree nit-picker. It's in my genes. John And you do it so well!! [8D] Just to clarify, I'm not trying to an ambassador of the word "molding". Just offering a different perspective to take, toss, throw at me, etc...

KnightofMists -> RE: Mold me? (12/2/2008 6:59:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida Also as an aside, although I'm not sure it really means anything, but KOM mentioned needing the right tools to mold and shape rock, versus shaping clay (I understood this to mean the right tools aren't needed to shape clay). That was not what I was trying to communicate ... I am only implying that with rock a person will have alot of difficult trying to mold it without the tools to do the job. It's hard nature being much harder than your hands. This is comparable to the "stubborn or resistent" individual that needs to be shaped and redirected in their improper behaviors (deal with these kinds of people at work all the time). while clay the tools needs are not so critical to form it which is comparable to the willing individual that is self-motivated in their own growth and self-improvement. Of course, with anything.. the proper tool is needed to be effective it just the more challanging the problem often the more specific and skilled one needs for the tools required to effective change.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Mold me? (12/2/2008 8:13:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rover quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida This is an area where you & I see things much differently. I don't see the word "molding" as a fancy term, for one. I've been hearing that term for ages, in regards to parenting, whereby parents mold the young minds of their kids into healthy, strong and capable adults. And used in a parent/child context, it's far more appropriate in that children really are blank slates when it comes to many things. By in large, children take on the politics of their parents. They take on the religion of their parents. They take on the morals of their parents. It's not the same situation with adults. It is precisely the same situation with adults, or at least it can be given the right dominant and the right submissive. The problem with this discussion is we are essentially discussing "can someone take oil paint and create a masterpiece" and the answer is both absolutely not and absolutely yes. The fact that almost none can does not negate the answer that a few will. Perhaps a better analogy is "can someone survive a fall from a three story building" and while most can't, there are people who do, however recommending it as an exit is still probably a bad idea. Molding and shaping someone occurs in every relationship, we train our partners by the things we react to. How many people here experienced guilt and shame from their partners in the past over their kinky desires? Our partners taught us not to mention those things, they molded us into vanilla. Okay so now you say molding isn't deep if it changes later and you are right. But again, that excludes the cases where molding and shaping is "internalized" which is what psychologists call it when someone adopts something deeply like a child might. When I met BSB she was not used to being deeply honest with her partner. She had been shaped by a long history from childhood that one does not truly tell others what is going on emotionally. I don't think she longed for honesty but she did long for happiness and as I showed her time and time again how honesty was to be our path to happiness, she opened up more and more. I made her safe to try and rewarded her when she was open and honest. When we had our big breakup it was about something deep and hurtful she should have discussed with me but couldn't. After we worked through that she has truly come over to the other side and internalized not only how to be honest (and I am talking about deep vulnerability and saying things you fear will hurt your partner) but how to do so in a loving and caring way. Of course I harnessed things that were already there in her personality to achieve goals she wanted but it was my being ME that shaped her into a place where she could learn how to be truly open and honest. I am quite she she has internalized that lesson. Was it all me? Of course not, was I a mere catalyst? Possibly. However, at some point you begin arguing over which came first and then nothing means anything. I was there, it was a goal of mine, and it happened, take from that what you will. I think people do that all the time. Again, the problem is that not everyone is painting a masterpiece nor is everyone surviving the fall. There are unreasonable expectations and this is certainly an area of bdsm filled with more fantasy than any other, but that does not negate the fact that it can and does go on successfully.

NuevaVida -> RE: Mold me? (12/2/2008 8:26:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida Also as an aside, although I'm not sure it really means anything, but KOM mentioned needing the right tools to mold and shape rock, versus shaping clay (I understood this to mean the right tools aren't needed to shape clay). That was not what I was trying to communicate ... I am only implying that with rock a person will have alot of difficult trying to mold it without the tools to do the job. It's hard nature being much harder than your hands. This is comparable to the "stubborn or resistent" individual that needs to be shaped and redirected in their improper behaviors (deal with these kinds of people at work all the time). while clay the tools needs are not so critical to form it which is comparable to the willing individual that is self-motivated in their own growth and self-improvement. Of course, with anything.. the proper tool is needed to be effective it just the more challanging the problem often the more specific and skilled one needs for the tools required to effective change. OK, thanks for clarifying, and I agree the proper tools need to be in place and used appropriately to be effective. Having spent time at a potters wheel though, egads, one tiny delicate slip and you have a mess on your hands. [;)] Just for fun, wouldn't these be fun to play with on a person? Heheh...

came4U -> RE: Mold me? (12/2/2008 9:43:07 AM)
By this 'legal age' of 18 and over as this place claims to attract the personality of an individual is (or should be) formed already by parents and lifestyle in general. You can lead another to changes and even a change in morals, but personality? no. (See case studies of Jonestown (personality molding) vs Stockholm Syndrome (morality molding). Molding can occur, if slow and practiced. Finding someone qualified is another matter. Just as some are just as unable or unqualified to mold, some are as equally incapable of being molded. Dominant or submissive..sometimes it happens that.... "Ya can't polish a turd' Stephen King, Christine, 1983.

MercTech -> RE: Mold me? (12/2/2008 3:17:48 PM)
"Mold Me" The first thing that pops to mind for me is "Naaa, I have enough trouble with athlete's foot to deal with more fungus in the house." Stefan

Lockit -> RE: Mold me? (12/2/2008 3:18:52 PM)
I knew that mold thing would haunt me! But it seems a few around here have a mold problem so I don't feel so alone. ROFL

marie2 -> RE: Mold me? (12/2/2008 3:31:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists Of course, with anything.. the proper tool is needed I need a "tool" to make me a very good girl.

Rover -> RE: Mold me? (12/2/2008 3:37:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marie2 quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists Of course, with anything.. the proper tool is needed I need a "tool" to make me a very good girl. marie, I believe they call that a "miracle". John

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