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RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 4:30:10 PM

daddysblondie

Posts: 181
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline

Okay... I feel the need to add a few things in here...

1. The confessing at the dungeon was only one part of my punishment for the snooping/secret keeping and had actually already made a somewhat public apology to our close friends on my own, separate from the issue I raised here on the boards.

2. He and I discussed at length the whys, hows and wherefores of MY indiscretion and the reason he and I are still together now is because he believed me when I told him that my motivation for telling him wasn't self centered and because all other things have been damn near perfect since this happened.

3. He is well aware that I started the thread because we had already talked extensively about what my problems were in following through Saturday evening. I gave him the link and I know he read some of the responses as well as I did.

I appreciate the input, even the stuff that wasn't all the nice... honestly, it gave me some other perspectives, which is what I was seeking anyway.

I'm sure that when some of the other issues he's dealing with let up on him some, he and I will have a long talk about where to go from here and what we are going to do about it.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 61

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 4:32:35 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline

I have had a thought all day and hope I can manage to get it out in words here. Does he always make decisions that you find controversial at best? If he does, you have a choice between accepting those decisions without further debate or deciding if this relationship is really what you want. I just wonder if at the root of it all is that you really don't trust him and his judgement on things. I see a trust issue primarily, a big one too. I also see that your communication is not going well. Those are some pretty serious problems.

I do see a bit of hypocracy, as others have pointed out, that you do not wish to speak of your own misdeeds in a public manner to friends who would likely understand, but seem so willing to share his with strangers who will make all kinds of assessment of him and the relationship you both share. Either airing things in public is acceptable or it's not. You just can't have it both ways.

I wouldn't want to be involved in this if you were my friend, but would agree to it if I were asked to listen to you so that I could offer some insight to you. Just to randomly approaching me during an otherwise fun time would be intrusive. If I was expecting it, then everything changes. Further, you can approach these folks as one friend to another since you do have such a relationship with them. You do not need to elaborate that you are only telling them this because that is your punishment. I would find it offensive that a friend was only confiding in me because she had to.

You have to decide if punishments from him ever seem to address the issue and help you come out the other side better for it. If yes, then there is something that he wants you to learn or take away from this. If no, then there are more problems that need to be addressed. Communication would go so far in helping to resolve all this. Do your best to listen and not do so much talking. Focus on what he is trying to tell you and see if it makes a difference.

lovingpet

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 62

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 5:03:41 PM

faithbunny

Posts: 99
Joined: 10/28/2007
Status: offline

I'm a little surprised to see the OP getting jumped on so hard for her initial trangression, which seems to me to be rooted in insecurity. Who here has never done something he or she is not proud of because they were insecure? Hopefully she and her Master have delved into the reasons for the insecurity and things are better on that front.

As for the punishment... I think it's a tacky and obnoxious one, at best. The OP needs to decide how strongly she feels about the inappropriateness of the punishment. Either she needs to respectfully decline, or she needs to obey. My beloved doesn't love it when I tell him no, but I think it's a lot more respectful than simply BSing him would be.

Personally (and I'm sure this will not be a popular opinion) I don't think that punishment is appropriate except in the case of repeated trangressions, where talking about it like grownups has failed to work. I may be submissive, but I am not a child. Doms make mistakes, too, and subs don't punish them. I think I am deserving of as much respect as any dom does.

~faith

(in reply to daddysblondie)

Post #: 63

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 5:44:00 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithbunny

I'm a little surprised to see the OP getting jumped on so hard for her initial trangression, which seems to me to be rooted in insecurity. Who here has never done something he or she is not proud of because they were insecure? Hopefully she and her Master have delved into the reasons for the insecurity and things are better on that front.

While an understanding of the reasons behind mistakes is important, it should in no way diminish the responsibility of an individual to take on the consequences of those mistakes. While it may seem all soft and cuddly and emotive for the Dom to accept the violation(s) and work simply to fix the problem, it's not a mandatory protocol and, frankly, most people's sets of emotions don't function that way. This doesn't even deal with the fact that she dealt with at least 2 transgressions by piling another on top of it.

Maybe it seems a light thing to you (and this isn't meant as an affront but just an awareness of differing 'limits') but I find deception to be one of the most extreme violations. My reactions to this will mirror that. And, while I have no intention of being intentionally cruel to the OP, it's nice to see she is open to seeing different perspectives on this and doesn't feel it's personal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithbunny

As for the punishment... I think it's a tacky and obnoxious one, at best.

That's not for you to decide. And, this is yet another indirect issue wrought from her having brought things up here in public: she has openly invited half-informed criticism of her Dom. It's a dishonor. Frankly, the construct of his punishment (as I understand it from skimming through) did seem to appropriately address the issue of secrecy...by forcing her to make herself an open book for a short period of time. Some people are whining about being made unwilling audience members by such an act (as if being involved in this very thread isn't the same thing!)...but that's their own personal pet peeve, at worst and a silly emotional overreaction at worst.

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithbunny

The OP needs to decide how strongly she feels about the inappropriateness of the punishment.

No, she doesn't. She needs to decide if she plans to submit to her Dom or not. If she has, then it is her responsibility to abide by his rule. Otherwise they're just role-playing/part-timing.

Even if she felt unsure about his decision, it should certainly not be something brought up at that moment and certainly not in public. To go even further, I would expect my sub/slave to willingly and, without question, do what I've set forth (an indication of honoring my decision) and only afterward taking the time to ask me about it, as far as her feeling awkward about it. If the situation/punishment was really something that made her feel entirely uncomfortable, then I might understand her yieldingly bringing it up beforehand...but that would have to be an extreme case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithbunny

Either she needs to respectfully decline, or she needs to obey. My beloved doesn't love it when I tell him no, but I think it's a lot more respectful than simply BSing him would be.

If you get to decide when and where you obey...what's the point of the D/s dynamic? Who, at that point, is really even wielding the control in the power exchange?

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithbunny

Personally (and I'm sure this will not be a popular opinion) I don't think that punishment is appropriate except in the case of repeated trangressions, where talking about it like grownups has failed to work.

I think willful decisions to violate trust and honor don't need a 'three-strikes-you're-out' policy. How many times does you're partner need to cheat on you before it's a "repeated transgression"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithbunny

I may be submissive, but I am not a child. Doms make mistakes, too, and subs don't punish them. I think I am deserving of as much respect as any dom does.

Why are you bringing up being made to feel like a child? Violating the honor and trust of a relationship...and being made to be accountable for it, is not an issue of treating someone as a child (unless the guilty party doesn't like taking the consequences of their actions and likes treating reactions as guilt trips or patronizing because they're in denial).

Yes, Doms make mistakes too. And, perhaps I live in an odd ideal world...but I expect the Doms to carry the burden of being their own very strict police. I don't expect any leeway of myself if I make a mistake...and I'll be the first one to admit to such if it has affected my sub/slave.

Respect is not really relevant here. It's about integrity. If your actions do not display such...then I fail to see how some expectation of "respect" is even fair or logical.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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(in reply to faithbunny)

Post #: 64

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 5:56:42 PM

MasterTslave

Posts: 200
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline

I have no idea what you did or how bad it was...but Master T would not allow me to change my punishment. If He told me to do something, he would be even more upset that I hadn't followed thru with his wishes for punishment. It is not your place to change the punishment, if that was the case, you would not be a sub/slave (IMO). I take whatever punishment I have coming to me and if I fuck it up, I get to do that punishment and get another to go on top of that one...would get more punishment for even thinking about asking Him to change his punishment.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 65

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 6:08:14 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

A rhetorical answer to the tone of an unspoken question I can sense here: Why am I being so harsh?

Because her Dom shouldn't have to be. No caring Dom ever likes being the bad guy, but often it's not possible to empathically express if something has wounded us and to what extent. And, if our sub (who we depend on) is questioning our ethical integrity (based on our choice of punishment) enough to air it out in public...and then handfuls of people are gasping about how awful it seems...who is left on the Dom's side? There is a thread in General about 'vulnerable Doms' and I can only imagine how discomforting it must be to be in his position through this...especially if he's seeing this thread play out.

Has there been any indication that he's been a bad Dominant to her? Abusive? Negative in anyway? He finds out someone he trusts has lied to him...and then that she kept the lie a secret. He takes time to choose a punishment that, to me, seems adequate. Sure, it leaves some people with that "it's in public!" itch...but that's the point: to put her in a place where she could not hide as a contrast to having spent however long doing just that. And...the response he receives to that? Refusal, and then the opening of his choice to public ridicule.

All these criticisms of his choice of punishment (which wasn't that bad, really) seem ignorant of the fact that that is what he felt he would need to arrive at a place of understanding of her remorse and a sense of closure to this episode. And, frankly, his feelings don't seem to be getting attended to by anyone...even the person he is trusting the most. If X is what he needed to get over the situation, I'm having trouble comprehending how deciding to critique the choice was the default reaction by his sub, rather than caring acceptance (obviously, so long as X is within extreme reason...and it was, in this case).

So...he shouldn't have to be the one to point out the utmost negative view in order to have the point(s) brought to light. Maybe he's more easygoing than I'm making everything sound here and he's open to giving her even more leeway to make up for her mistakes...but even if he isn't, it doesn't translate to some automatic 'bad Dom!' trait in him. He shouldn't have to be the one who could conceivably come in here trying to defend his decisions because even his sub will not do it.

Paint me the bad guy, then. That's fine....but hopefully in the process it will open up some eyes to how it must be in his shoes, to where maybe (just maybe) the perspective changes to where his sub (presuming that she cares for him and wants to be with him) actually starts acting like it (within the context of this discussion).

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 66

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 6:20:31 PM

daddysblondie

Posts: 181
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline

Wow... thank you for putting it in words that hit home...

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 67

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 6:23:34 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

A rhetorical answer to the tone of an unspoken question I can sense here: Why am I being so harsh?

Because her Dom shouldn't have to be. No caring Dom ever likes being the bad guy, but often it's not possible to empathically express if something has wounded us and to what extent. And, if our sub (who we depend on) is questioning our ethical integrity (based on our choice of punishment) enough to air it out in public...and then handfuls of people are gasping about how awful it seems...who is left on the Dom's side? There is a thread in General about 'vulnerable Doms' and I can only imagine how discomforting it must be to be in his position through this...especially if he's seeing this thread play out.

Has there been any indication that he's been a bad Dominant to her? Abusive? Negative in anyway? He finds out someone he trusts has lied to him...and then that she kept the lie a secret. He takes time to choose a punishment that, to me, seems adequate. Sure, it leaves some people with that "it's in public!" itch...but that's the point: to put her in a place where she could not hide as a contrast to having spent however long doing just that. And...the response he receives to that? Refusal, and then the opening of his choice to public ridicule.

All these criticisms of his choice of punishment (which wasn't that bad, really) seem ignorant of the fact that that is what he felt he would need to arrive at a place of understanding of her remorse and a sense of closure to this episode. And, frankly, his feelings don't seem to be getting attended to by anyone...even the person he is trusting the most. If X is what he needed to get over the situation, I'm having trouble comprehending how deciding to critique the choice was the default reaction by his sub, rather than caring acceptance (obviously, so long as X is within extreme reason...and it was, in this case).

So...he shouldn't have to be the one to point out the utmost negative view in order to have the point(s) brought to light. Maybe he's more easygoing than I'm making everything sound here and he's open to giving her even more leeway to make up for her mistakes...but even if he isn't, it doesn't translate to some automatic 'bad Dom!' trait in him. He shouldn't have to be the one who could conceivably come in here trying to defend his decisions because even his sub will not do it.

Paint me the bad guy, then. That's fine....but hopefully in the process it will open up some eyes to how it must be in his shoes, to where maybe (just maybe) the perspective changes to where his sub (presuming that she cares for him and wants to be with him) actually starts acting like it (within the context of this discussion).

Awesome post.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 68

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 6:40:48 PM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

Well said, NZ. I've often been asked "how do I make it better?", to which I always reply... just obey.

John

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Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 69

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 6:59:28 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterTslave
I have no idea what you did or how bad it was...but Master T would not allow me to change my punishment. If He told me to do something, he would be even more upset that I hadn't followed thru with his wishes for punishment. It is not your place to change the punishment, if that was the case, you would not be a sub/slave (IMO). I take whatever punishment I have coming to me and if I fuck it up, I get to do that punishment and get another to go on top of that one...would get more punishment for even thinking about asking Him to change his punishment.

And why should I have to take your punishment? Which is what's going on here.

My issues (and I think this is clear) have not been anything to do with their relationship or punishment dynamic. It's obvious they've been having problems for awhile and have a lot more work and togetherness to get through if this is going to become a long term fulfilling situation for those involved.

My issue is simply with actively choosing to involve people you claim to respect as friends into your own personal relationship crap for no reason other than "he thinks it sounds good." I don't use my friends like that and would feel very low about someone who did.

If the dom wants to disagree, fine. If the sub wants to disagree and go along with it, also fine. But that shows a real lack of character at the least and an enormous lack of understanding of behavioral conditioning dynamics.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 12/1/2008 7:02:29 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to MasterTslave)

Post #: 70

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 7:10:43 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I personally would be annoyed because I would feel you were dragging me into personal relationship issues I didn't give a rats ass about.

I'd tell your Master that too, I'd be like look I don't care what goes on in your relationship privately, please don't be having your slave come tell me what she did to fuck up and how. I don't care and I am here to have a good time, not hear about the negativity going on in your relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysblondie

So I've read enough of the threads that other's have posted to know that I should expect all variety of responses. I promise this wont be the typical "what should i do?" thread...

In a nutshell, several months ago I betrayed my Master's trust and then because I knew what I had done carried serious consequences, I kept it a secret for months. Recent conversations with others about the importance of open communication and honesty prompted me to realize that I needed to tell my Master what I had done and deal with whatever the consequences of my actions were going to be.

Part of my punishment was that I was supposed to tell our friends/acquaintances at our local dungeon what I had done when we were there this weekend.

(in reply to daddysblondie)

Post #: 71

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 9:39:52 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

If nothing else, this thread has shown me one thing... any dominant who utilizes public punishment (of the type that intrudes on other people's good time) is not the dominant for me.

Cali

_____________________________

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(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 72

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 10:32:09 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

Fast reply

Oh great just what this world needs another drama queen. I will be sure to watch you on Jerry! It's really quit simple don't breed ever The second part of my advice is quite profound do as your told instead of dreaming up more shit to create more drama..

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 73

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 10:46:19 PM

daddysblondie

Posts: 181
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline

sorry... too late... i already did... breed that is...

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 74

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 10:50:14 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

And will he still think that if and when you guys become unpopular for spreading relationship , and private relationship stuff to people, who though friends don't give a rip, and are there to have fun, and not to hear your relationship negativity?

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysblondie

He knows about the second because he was there with me last night...

His issue with me at this point is that he feels like my "inability" to do what he told me to do is an ego thing... me worrying about what other people think of me more than i'm worried about what he thinks of me...

(in reply to daddysblondie)

Post #: 75

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 10:52:57 PM

SailingBum

Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysblondie

sorry... too late... i already did... breed that is...

For that the JErry springers of the world will be thankfull.

BadOne

_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to daddysblondie)

Post #: 76

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 10:56:36 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

And will he still think that if and when you guys become unpopular for spreading relationship , and private relationship stuff to people, who though friends don't give a rip, and are there to have fun, and not to hear your relationship negativity?

I think people are starting to stretch the credibility of the "I'm so offended I had to listen to you for 24 seconds that my night is ruined" angle of displeasure argument, especially if the people she'd have been talking with are friends.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)

Post #: 77

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 10:58:46 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysblondie

sorry... too late... i already did... breed that is...

For that the JErry springers of the world will be thankfull.

BadOne

Do you always pick on the ones that seem easier targets because other posters are on their cases?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to SailingBum)

Post #: 78

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 11:05:18 PM

YourhandMyAss

Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

I listen to ofriends too, but there's very much a time and a place, and my one night out at the dungeon with daddy, is NOT the time to air private issues to me. I don't get to go to dungeons with daddy very much, and my time there is for him and I to play and have fun, not listen to a friend confide, by order of her master she lied and made him mad. And I certaintly would think less of her master if she was my friend and her Dom told her to approach me on my night out of fun, with their personal issues.

Being approached with personal relationship problems, on my ONE night in months out, would seriously ruin my mood . If you're my friend you know I never get to go to dungeons with Daddy since time and money don't allow, and you'd know not to approach me on one of the only nights I'll have out in prolly months more with drauma.

Now sometime tomorow or the next day over ims or coffe yeah sure I'd listen to you. But not on my night out at the dungeon, and not dureing my limited time to publically play with daddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

Putting aside whether what he asked of you is rude, (which in my opinion is not, if you are only talking to friends...I listen to my friends, and when I have something I need to talk about, hope that they will listen and help me in the same way)

But, I think your master is quite correct in his assessment. It does seem that you are more interested in others' reactions/feelings, than your master's.

The sign thing sounds like a cop-out. Especially if you have trouble communicating your flaws/mistakes with others.

I wish you both well, whatever is decided.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

Post #: 79

RE: Not your average punishment thread - 12/1/2008 11:08:20 PM

DavanKael

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

A rhetorical answer to the tone of an unspoken question I can sense here: Why am I being so harsh?

Because her Dom shouldn't have to be. No caring Dom ever likes being the bad guy, but often it's not possible to empathically express if something has wounded us and to what extent. And, if our sub (who we depend on) is questioning our ethical integrity (based on our choice of punishment) enough to air it out in public...and then handfuls of people are gasping about how awful it seems...who is left on the Dom's side? There is a thread in General about 'vulnerable Doms' and I can only imagine how discomforting it must be to be in his position through this...especially if he's seeing this thread play out.

Has there been any indication that he's been a bad Dominant to her? Abusive? Negative in anyway? He finds out someone he trusts has lied to him...and then that she kept the lie a secret. He takes time to choose a punishment that, to me, seems adequate. Sure, it leaves some people with that "it's in public!" itch...but that's the point: to put her in a place where she could not hide as a contrast to having spent however long doing just that. And...the response he receives to that? Refusal, and then the opening of his choice to public ridicule.

All these criticisms of his choice of punishment (which wasn't that bad, really) seem ignorant of the fact that that is what he felt he would need to arrive at a place of understanding of her remorse and a sense of closure to this episode. And, frankly, his feelings don't seem to be getting attended to by anyone...even the person he is trusting the most. If X is what he needed to get over the situation, I'm having trouble comprehending how deciding to critique the choice was the default reaction by his sub, rather than caring acceptance (obviously, so long as X is within extreme reason...and it was, in this case).

So...he shouldn't have to be the one to point out the utmost negative view in order to have the point(s) brought to light. Maybe he's more easygoing than I'm making everything sound here and he's open to giving her even more leeway to make up for her mistakes...but even if he isn't, it doesn't translate to some automatic 'bad Dom!' trait in him. He shouldn't have to be the one who could conceivably come in here trying to defend his decisions because even his sub will not do it.

Paint me the bad guy, then. That's fine....but hopefully in the process it will open up some eyes to how it must be in his shoes, to where maybe (just maybe) the perspective changes to where his sub (presuming that she cares for him and wants to be with him) actually starts acting like it (within the context of this discussion).

Hi, NZ----
Another exquisite elucidation; my compliments. I don't think you're being harsh at all; you captured the essence: keep your commitments and take personal responsibility. :>
Davan

_____________________________

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-Me

Waiting is

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Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
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(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 80

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