RE: Vulnerable Dominants

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NihilusZero -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 11:08:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida I'll add that the man I'm seeing lost his mother yesterday. I'm sorry to hear about his/your situation. Best emotional recuperation wishes.

NuevaVida -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 11:12:18 AM)
Thank you for the well wishes. Our moms are so similar, we would talk about them a lot and mimic they're accents to each other (which were also similar). I have never met the woman but feel a sense of loss myself. It has been a privilege to share this experience with him, and since my Dad recently died (2 years ago), I can share in the experience of a parent ending his/her suffering. But I don't want to hijack this thread with this...just wanted to point out that his decision to be vulnerable with me at this time has been touching to me.

oceanwynds -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 11:14:12 AM)
Vulnerablity is within everyone. When a Dominant shares their vulnerabilty to me, it simply means that I have touched their heart in a deep way. They trust and have faith in me to be their for them, as much as they wish. Vulnerability is not equated to weakness in my book. It usually is a passage of time where growth is there for them. It does not diminish my view of Him. He is always Sir to me. oceanwynds

heartfeltsub -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 11:23:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys That's why I made the comment earlier that many say they want a Man first but when you are that Man with all of the good and bad that comes with being him,,they typically can't handle it. It would lead me to believe that those, even though they say they do, don't really know what it is they want for sure. I find that to be true for everyone in general. Interesting point. I'll add that the man I'm seeing lost his mother yesterday. He is out of state with family, making burial arrangements. He called me four times yesterday to talk about it. This does not make him "weak" in my eyes, it endears me to him, particularly since we are relatively new to each other and he chose to share his grief with me. If he had shut me out in an effort to keep up a "strong" demeanor, I would be disappointed. What i have seen and was commenting about was not something like you described here NV, not a for lack of a better term coming to mind, a "temporary" emotional time period in the Dominant's life, but rather what i have heard comments about is a more permanent perceived "weakness" in character, an insecurity, a place of struggle, that sort of thing. Please also understand that i am not claiming that this viewpoint is correct, just that i see some submissives doing it. And yes i agree with John, that it can come from a place of unreasonable expectations on the part of the s-type. i think it can also come from a stereotype of what a Dominant is "supposed" to be (although i don't think there is a "supposed" to be in reality). heartfelt

NuevaVida -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 11:28:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub What i have seen and was commenting about was not something like you described here NV, not a for lack of a better term coming to mind, a "temporary" emotional time period in the Dominant's life, but rather what i have heard comments about is a more permanent perceived "weakness" in character, an insecurity, a place of struggle, that sort of thing. Please also understand that i am not claiming that this viewpoint is correct, just that i see some submissives doing it. And yes i agree with John, that it can come from a place of unreasonable expectations on the part of the s-type. i think it can also come from a stereotype of what a Dominant is "supposed" to be (although i don't think there is a "supposed" to be in reality). heartfelt I completely agree, heartfelt. In my last relationship, my owner made it a point to never appear vulnerable or weak in my eyes. He felt it would damage our dynamic. It was a point of frustration, because I wanted to know the complete and real owner, and feeling shut out from that part of him was difficult. Then again, as has been said here, there is a vulnerability balance. I think some people equate "vulnerable dominant" similarly to "weak/needy submissive." I've probably done that myself in the past.

Icarys -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 11:42:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub quote: ORIGINAL: NuevaVida quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys That's why I made the comment earlier that many say they want a Man first but when you are that Man with all of the good and bad that comes with being him,,they typically can't handle it. It would lead me to believe that those, even though they say they do, don't really know what it is they want for sure. I find that to be true for everyone in general. Interesting point. I'll add that the man I'm seeing lost his mother yesterday. He is out of state with family, making burial arrangements. He called me four times yesterday to talk about it. This does not make him "weak" in my eyes, it endears me to him, particularly since we are relatively new to each other and he chose to share his grief with me. If he had shut me out in an effort to keep up a "strong" demeanor, I would be disappointed. What i have seen and was commenting about was not something like you described here NV, not a for lack of a better term coming to mind, a "temporary" emotional time period in the Dominant's life, but rather what i have heard comments about is a more permanent perceived "weakness" in character, an insecurity, a place of struggle, that sort of thing. Please also understand that i am not claiming that this viewpoint is correct, just that i see some submissives doing it. And yes i agree with John, that it can come from a place of unreasonable expectations on the part of the s-type. i think it can also come from a stereotype of what a Dominant is "supposed" to be (although i don't think there is a "supposed" to be in reality). heartfelt I have a problem trusting people. I want to and the logical part of me says that it's best if I do even if they do something that hurts me. I'll be the better person for it. So I push past it but I'm far from there. It's an ongoing battle that I have lost from time to time and in the process has caused me to loose people in my life that meant the world to me. Life and people are much more complicated than they have to be and we make it so. We have the power to be angels to the world if we can only strip out the demons that live within.

OttersSwim -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 11:46:51 AM)
So I have to say that I love it when my Lady is vulnerable. It means that I have an opportunity to step in and support her in a time of need. It does not in any way diminish her, or her dominance over me, in any way. It is an essential part of the give/take relationship we have together. [:)]

CreativeDominant -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 12:02:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lunalay Maybe I misunderstand... But, I suppose we are all vulnerable in our own ways; dominants aren't superhuman. [;)] However, my Sir once told me that his kindness was often mistaken as a weakness and left him vulnerable to being attacked and chided constantly. But, I love his goofiness and his kind persona. No need for the "all-powerful" act. Being kind and being patient CAN set you up to being attacked by those who perceive kindness and patience as weak points. But almost anything that is good can be taken as a weak point simply because those things that are considered "good" traits in humans...dominant or submissive...are also those areas in which fairness and understanding come into play. All these things work in favor of those who look for weaknesses in others or in favor of those who perhaps do not exploit vulnerabilities until it works to their favor to do so. If you are the type who likes to have everything on the table so that it can either be fixed or at least understood, even if it cannot be fixed, then I see you as a person who is fair. But if someone knows that about you and wants to hurt you, they can refuse to discuss whatever it is that has created a problem or they can say all they want to say and never give you a chance to be heard or to discuss things with them. If you are the type who understands that people make mistakes and that there are varying levels of mistakes and that it is best to understand what was going on in the person's head that made the mistake, then that can be used against you by anyone cunning enough to work things out in their head and offer up a palatable "reason" each time they are called on their mistake. So what does a person do? You can keep on trying to be who and what you are but as nv said, you set boundaries for behaviors you will and will not tolerate and you lay them out. This is one reason I have revised my profile, at the suggestion of a friend, so that there is a bit more clarity about me and about boundaries. nueva vida said: "Then again, as has been said here, there is a vulnerability balance. I think some people equate "vulnerable dominant" similarly to "weak/needy submissive." I've probably done that myself in the past. " I think this is one reason, in addition to the ones I have cited...others have cited...why some dominants begin to start making themselves over into someone like your owner. Paradoxically, it can become very frustrating for the submissive but on the other hand...how many more times does the dominant want to lay himself open to being hurt OR to being seen as nv noted...equated, because you are a vulnerable dominant, to a "weak/needy submissive"? Let's see the dominant hands raise for that being the image of themselves they want to project or to have others visualize.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 12:35:27 PM)
Emotional vulnerability = the possibility of being hurt emotionally. Open to liking and loving someone, not closed off or hiding feelings. I lived with a man who had the shield of invulnerability. He talked a good story but he was in reality so closed off, he couldn't love his um's. Well - actually, he did love them, but he couldn't show it to them. Needless to say they didn't have a good relationship with him. I wanted a partnership with a man who could tell me and show me that he loved me. and that is what i have - and he is my dominant. No if's, and's or but's. I didn't want an automaton - a robot that looked like a man, but without the emotion. Interestingly, we both feel as if the other is getting less out of the relationship. And i feel that is a healthy way to be. Now, if i was going to just play with someone, then sure - go for the fantasy, and have a dom that is immune to my wiles, and can see through all my tricks (not that i have any), but i think that would get old quickly in real life.

Icarys -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 12:41:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 Emotional vulnerability = the possibility of being hurt emotionally. Open to liking and loving someone, not closed off or hiding feelings. I lived with a man who had the shield of invulnerability. He talked a good story but he was in reality so closed off, he couldn't love his um's. Well - actually, he did love them, but he couldn't show it to them. Needless to say they didn't have a good relationship with him. I wanted a partnership with a man who could tell me and show me that he loved me. and that is what i have - and he is my dominant. No if's, and's or but's. I didn't want an automaton - a robot that looked like a man, but without the emotion. Interestingly, we both feel as if the other is getting less out of the relationship. And i feel that is a healthy way to be. Now, if i was going to just play with someone, then sure - go for the fantasy, and have a dom that is immune to my wiles, and can see through all my tricks (not that i have any), but i think that would get old quickly in real life. Being vulnerable doesn't make you blind lol. Your still able to see through a persons tricks.

SageFemmexx -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 1:01:05 PM)
I initially did alot of counseling with my vunerable dominant. he had come out of a nasty divorce and had some terrific emotional damage. He needed to talk out his hurt and pain and someone to listen that would not judge him as less than for being vunerable. To me, it has made him more of a man and a better dominant. It certainly bonded us in more ways than one. To be vunerable is to be human, to be a dominant that has needs does not make him less of one. I certainly would not want a cold, unfeeling sob for a dominant. Walling off emotions and feelings does not make for a better Sir in my opinion. We need to feel...it is an essential part of who we are. Sage.

DavanKael -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 1:28:12 PM)
Vulnerability, to me, connotes depthful, open sharing. The more important the relationship, the greater depth of all of those things, generally speaking. Of course a Dominant should be vulnerable, as should a switch, slave, or submissve; we're all real people and vulnerability is part of real relationships. Davan

SirJeremy -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/1/2008 5:09:11 PM)
The 'terminator Dom' only exists in session work, punishment, and play time... it's not a 'real world' concept. Vulnerability only comes with extreme comfort and a level of shared trust, experiences and emotions.... if the poster means it in a way which a sub can emotionally injure a Dom, the answer is still the same - we are all human and, therefore, subject to emotional responses when we become attached to someone (especially in long term relations)

ExSteelAgain -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/2/2008 4:14:43 AM)
It appears we all agree vulnerability is a good quality whether you are Dom or submissive. Being you is a mark of confidence and not something to hide behind ill understood facades of dominance/submission. I have no doubt some Dominants play Circe’s song over and over and regrettably many new submissives listen, believing that is the way it is supposed to be. However, if the relationship goes beyond the weekly scene, contrived behavior will start to lose its appeal fast enough. I suppose we could put it in our terms as Dom and sub frenzy that gets them into role playing, masking their vulnerability and making them both do things they’ll regret later. A philosopher, I happen to be reading about on another site, Eric Hoffer, had interesting thoughts on similar behavior. I won’t get into it here, but he may be worth your time reading.

NorthernGent -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/2/2008 1:39:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag What does the phrase or concept of "vulnerability in a dominant" mean to you? What do you think that is or would be? Do you think its something a dominant should or should not be, and if so why or why not? I'd define 'vulnerable' as behaviour that is variable around the norm. I'd estimate that no one is solid 100% of the time, but there are varying extents to which people can be moved from their desired stance. I think it should be kept in check as much as possible - a firm hand etc. Edited to add: I've just read a few other posts and it seems I have a different view of that which constitutes vulnerablity. Being hurt by a failed relationship is not akin to being 'vulnerable' - that is normal behaviour. Vulnerability is a matter of not being able to live up to expectations - at least in my book.

tormentedtears -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/2/2008 4:57:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Any partner of mine, dominant or submissive or vanilla, would need to be vulnerable. If they are not vulnerable, then they are are also not actually exposing themselves to me as an authentic partner. Rather, we are shadow boxing in some sort of elaborate game. I'm not much of one for roleplaying.. not in the bedroom and most especially not in my life as a whole. As I read the above quotation, it rang with the truth I did not previously have the words to express. I also need to know that the Man that literally holds my life in His hands, shares a human, loving bond with me. Respect is watching Him address life with truth and at times seeing how that can make us all vunerable.

ThundersCry -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/2/2008 5:06:06 PM)
I do not see vulnerability as a weakness...though when I was younger I...did... Just the opposite...was my experience... when I took the risks involved... I like people to submit raw to...me... And in return, that allows me to give back...raw...all that I have... The good...the bad and the...ugly... Such freedom...

NihilusZero -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/2/2008 5:07:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThundersCry I do not see vulnerability as a weakness...though when I was younger I...did... Just the opposite...was my experience... when I took the risks involved... I like people to submit raw to...me... And in return, that allows me to give back...raw...all that I have... The good...the bad and the...ugly... Such freedom... Very nicely put.

kiwisub12 -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/2/2008 5:21:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Icarys quote: ORIGINAL: kiwisub12 Emotional vulnerability = the possibility of being hurt emotionally. Open to liking and loving someone, not closed off or hiding feelings. I lived with a man who had the shield of invulnerability. He talked a good story but he was in reality so closed off, he couldn't love his um's. Well - actually, he did love them, but he couldn't show it to them. Needless to say they didn't have a good relationship with him. I wanted a partnership with a man who could tell me and show me that he loved me. and that is what i have - and he is my dominant. No if's, and's or but's. I didn't want an automaton - a robot that looked like a man, but without the emotion. Interestingly, we both feel as if the other is getting less out of the relationship. And i feel that is a healthy way to be. Now, if i was going to just play with someone, then sure - go for the fantasy, and have a dom that is immune to my wiles, and can see through all my tricks (not that i have any), but i think that would get old quickly in real life. Being vulnerable doesn't make you blind lol. Your still able to see through a persons tricks. Oops - i certainly didn't mean that my Sir can't see through me - you would think i was the size of a toothpick the way he can see what i am up to - sometimes, before i know what i am up to.lol. And that is one of the things i love about him.

Leis -> RE: Vulnerable Dominants (12/2/2008 11:25:54 PM)
The few times I've seen my Master truly vulnerable provoke a real softness in me and a sickly strong desire to take care of him until the storm passes. It feels good in hindsight to be with someone who also has to experience being human and having emotions.

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