Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (Full Version)

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Aszhrae -> Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (11/30/2008 7:23:08 PM)

There are threads where the subject has come up about submissives being in sub-space, a space where everything seems to finally connect in that moment of the present where understanding and simply being.

Something has come to mind recently and girl has been thinking about it often. Not sure if it has anything to do with the so-called 'sub-space','dom-space' or what have you.

You sit, you're alone, a private place where you can focus your self on the goings on around you. You breathe, either using Ch'i breathing or Tao breathing or simply you do yoga.
You become calm. You become centered and eventually your thoughts become focused. Clarity comes to your thoughts and doubts ease away into nothingness.
You are there, distant but aware.
You have practiced this enough times that no matter where you are or what you are doing, you can get there again.

Pain, it stings, your instincts are to protect your self, but your will has you endure. It stings once more, your emotions begin to surface, by will you control them turn them inward. You strengthen your self so your body can endure even more. It stings again, a little more, a little longer. Your mind wants to shut it out but you continue by force of will to endure even more. You sigh as you become used to the sting. You become sensitive, your skin reacts to the lightest of touches. You become aware. You are wet, the pain has become pleasure. You want more.

The mindset, Pain is Pleasure, you are now focused on doing what would give you the greatest pleasure. You open your eyes, your dominant is smiling, there in their eyes a fire burn. There hand lifts to pet your head and your shoulder.

This was an example of a personal experience years ago.
What girl would like to know, has anyone managed to attain a similar experience?
If so, care to post your experience?
Invite analysis as well or even skepticism.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (11/30/2008 7:27:13 PM)

Subspace does not equal "subs headspace"  Subspace is an altered state of consciousness brought about by an intense chemical and emotional rush related to a s-types pleasure points.  Just because you're a sub and feeling happy and centered doesn't mean you're in subspace

Equally, subdrop does not equal "feeling blue"  Subdrop is the drop of intense chemical and emotional rush.  Just because you're feeling like crap one day doesn't mean you're having subdrop.

Your example is about masochism and focus, not really submission.  So no, it's not what I have experienced.

However, I can reach a sublime state of acceptance and endurance within a pain scene- I just still experience the pain as always pain.



Sexycelticlady -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (11/30/2008 7:45:56 PM)

It is probably slightly different to for everyone. I can put myself into a state similar to that of subspace, without the physical application of pain, but it takes focus and control. I have to say, when in subspace pain is still pain, I just care less and am removed from the immediacy of the pain. It is a way I can deal with the pain but not turn it to pleasure. I have found that some forms of pain, for me, are pleasurable anyway, whether I am in subspace or not.



Aszhrae -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (11/30/2008 8:20:37 PM)

Thank you Lucky, was trying to get all mystical and spiritual with the whole submissive ideology that pleasure can be had from pain, but oh well.
Nice kill. :( 



NuevaVida -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (11/30/2008 9:25:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae


Nice kill. :( 


In your OP you invited skepticism. When you received it, you respond negatively. Did you not really want skepticism?

I personally have not experienced subspace from pain very often. I have been brought there by other experiences with my former owner. Once there, I was hardly aware of anything around me, and was either left to keep riding it, or snapped out of it when he wanted me "present" again. Pain was something that typically brought me out of subspace or prevented me from going there. But subspace to me is different than what you described, as I become completely unaware. Perhaps this is what LA was talking about when she differentiated a "subs headspace" versus "subspace." Aware and caught up in the moment, totally in tune to him and my responses to him would be more of a headspace experience. Subspace for me is just la la la la....



Twicehappy2x -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 4:14:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

was trying to get all mystical and spiritual with the whole submissive ideology that pleasure can be had from pain,


It can, but it has little to do with anything mystical or magical.
 
As for me, i drop into subspace at Scooter's touch.



AquaticSub -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 4:24:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Subspace does not equal "subs headspace"  Subspace is an altered state of consciousness brought about by an intense chemical and emotional rush related to a s-types pleasure points.  Just because you're a sub and feeling happy and centered doesn't mean you're in subspace

Equally, subdrop does not equal "feeling blue"  Subdrop is the drop of intense chemical and emotional rush.  Just because you're feeling like crap one day doesn't mean you're having subdrop.

Your example is about masochism and focus, not really submission.  So no, it's not what I have experienced.

However, I can reach a sublime state of acceptance and endurance within a pain scene- I just still experience the pain as always pain.


What she said. Subspace is the floaty happy feeling I get after playing. After playing I don't feel particularly connected to the world around me as I do after mediation and nor do I feel the need to protect myself during a scene - even in my base instincts. Unless you want to count lifting a leg for a moment but I don't. Unless it's a "you will endure this for me regardless of your pleasure" scene, one of the body language tricks I've found myself using is I will shift from the position when it's "too much" and then relax back into it when ready.

After mediation I feel calm and strong but it doesn't really have anything to do with any particular headspace I achieve as a submission, be it washing his clothes or taking pain.

BTW, I also don't really understand your response to LA.

Edited to add: While pain is found in spiritual practices, the idea of pleasure from pain is hardly an ideology. Those, like me, who experience it do so because of the chemical reactions within the body to a pain stimulus. There are those with absolutely no connection to spiritualism or any belief system (other than non-belief) who experience pain as pleasure wonderfully. I think you may be looking at this from the wrong angle.



chamberqueen -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 6:27:20 AM)

I think many have had a similar experience.  Whether or not it turns into subspace will vary - from person to person and from session to session.  For most it is an acceptance of what the Dom/me chooses to do.

Some reach subspace through pain.  I tend to reach it through feeling totally owned.  In the example you give it sounds like you are telling yourself that you SHOULD view the pain as pleasure, not that you automatically do.  I cannot do that.  I experience pain as pain.  I may be proud of myself for accepting it as gracefully as I can, and for allowing myself to be used by my Master in whatever way he wants, and I get pleasure from those things but not from the pain itself.



xxblushesxx -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 6:58:48 AM)

I think, OP, that you are confusing a self-induced trance with sub-space.
While they may have (some) similarities, they are different, physiologically, and psychologically.



SassySarijane -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 7:54:16 AM)

I have to agree with LA. Sub space and sub's headspace are very different things. What you're talking about is more headspace and sub space is the endorphin high. That's my personal experience of both anyway.

ETA: headspace can also add to or intensify the sub space.



oceanwynds -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 2:32:07 PM)

Subspace for me is similiar to being high, I am way out there in the world of pink fussies.

Meditation for me is becoming one with the "All". Mystical experience is being one with a tree, and so on. The two, subspace and meditation are not the same. Subspace brings a real high and can bring a low/crash. Meditation there is always a grounding cord that brings me back nicely.

oceanwynds



DesFIP -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 5:29:30 PM)

I don't find subspace, good play and sex, to be spiritual or mystical. On the contrary, I value wiitwd for it's absolute grounding in the body, in the moment. Not to be spent searching for something else but to rejoice in the physical sensations.



NuevaVida -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 5:41:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I don't find subspace, good play and sex, to be spiritual or mystical. On the contrary, I value wiitwd for it's absolute grounding in the body, in the moment. Not to be spent searching for something else but to rejoice in the physical sensations.


While I have, on occasion, had spiritual (for lack of a better word, in touch with my own spirit) experiences during play, I really love the way you put this.



scarlethiney -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 6:05:35 PM)

Pain is pleasurable for me. It does put me in another place mentally and at some point physically. I am able to tune out everything else during that session. I am high from the pleasure the pain gives me so much so that I don't notice that it's painful. It becomes about the intense sensation.
So yes for me it can be akin to a meditative state.

I am sure it is different for every one. But yes Aszhrae for me pain is pleasure. It is a huge turn on.

scarlet




Aszhrae -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 7:11:16 PM)

It is a mystical experience for me and also quite magical.
It is when girl feels a connection between me and my mistress. Its like a sharing of spirit.
It may not be the same for you.

Girl just knows that, when girl focuses upon her mistress rather than on the self. Girl becomes distant, the pain takes on a whole new meaning. Just don't feel it any more, it doesn't sting anymore, will certainly feel it afterwards, but you might call it a high. Tell you one thing though, after 3 sets of a 100 and 1 of 50 with the belt. Girl becomes really wet and pretty much ready for more. Girl is so in her own place at that moment.
For me its a mystical experience. Pain becomes sensual.
Others may not believe me, but of course, that is their choice.




xxblushesxx -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 7:48:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

Pain is pleasurable for me. It does put me in another place mentally and at some point physically. I am able to tune out everything else during that session. I am high from the pleasure the pain gives me so much so that I don't notice that it's painful. It becomes about the intense sensation.
So yes for me it can be akin to a meditative state.

I am sure it is different for every one. But yes Aszhrae for me pain is pleasure. It is a huge turn on.

scarlet




Is it all pain, or sensual pain?
Personally, when I stub my toe, have a toothache or a migraine, I do NOT feel pleasure!



LPslittleclip -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 7:53:50 PM)

for me as a submissive with adhd i have experienced the subspace both with and without my meds. without it was a very intense experience with a rapid draw down and with the meds it isn't as intense an effect but it doesn't go down as fast. now this is separate from my head space this is how i behave and interact with others.  so the answer is yes it is achievable and very much not an illusion.



celticlord2112 -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 8:01:50 PM)

quote:

Invite analysis as well or even skepticism.

Mind is the illusion.  Mindset merely compounds the error.



Aszhrae -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 8:05:07 PM)

Girl believes there is a difference. There is of course some types of pain girl enjoys doing to her self. Wonder if girl should even mention it here, might be interpreted differently than what was intended.
Girl does remember, way back when, used to get a big kick out of creating 'curly piercings' taking large safety pins apart, and making them look a little like a spring, pierce the skin, just keep twisting it until finally the device would pass all the way through a pinch of skin; shish-ka-bob skewers were fun, you know, the metal ones;
Used to do some interesting things to my self when girl was still in high school, back during my goth days.
Girl just enjoyed the feel and it would help me zone out.
But again its a mindset.

Maybe girl is just twisted. Girl certainly did think so at one time. Now piercings are fashionable :( Back in the 80's having the corner of your mouth, through the cheek, with chain hanging to the ear, had its shock value. Those were the days :)



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Mindset: Achievable or Just an Illusion? (12/1/2008 8:09:25 PM)

I have to say I think Blushes had it dead on- self induced trance through pain is what the OP is going on here.



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