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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 7:07:05 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

So those that are screaming that the Big 3 need to be saved, that also hate Bush, are going to say "Good job" when Bush taps into funds to help the Big 3?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/13/AR2008121300539.html

What exactly does one have to do with the other?

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 7:42:24 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

They don't give a shit about the millions who indirectly rely on the Big Three for their jobs. The suppliers, the banks that fund the suppliers, the people who work for the suppliers, the grocers and doctors and mechanics and hair cutters who serve the people who work for the suppliers. No, they could give a shit about the country.

A very accurate description of the UAW. The UAW never gave a rat's ass about anyone or anything except coercing union dues out of the sheeple.

Want to save the Big Three? Bust the UAW and send Gettelfinger and his stupid band of fuckups to the unemployment line. They've fucked this country over long enough.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 7:45:50 AM

servantheart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

They don't give a shit about the millions who indirectly rely on the Big Three for their jobs. The suppliers, the banks that fund the suppliers, the people who work for the suppliers, the grocers and doctors and mechanics and hair cutters who serve the people who work for the suppliers. No, they could give a shit about the country.

A very accurate description of the UAW. The UAW never gave a rat's ass about anyone or anything except coercing union dues out of the sheeple.

Want to save the Big Three? Bust the UAW and send Gettelfinger and his stupid band of fuckups to the unemployment line. They've fucked this country over long enough.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 7:49:58 AM

cloudboy

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I think you are speaking mostly of the Southern Republicans here. To some degree, FORD and GM buried themselves by betting their loads on SUVs and lobbying Congress against higher mileage standards for their automobiles. Also, whether you or I like it or not, its hard to see how American manufacturing companies can survive here in the US with the Global Economy, largely driven by cheap labor abroad.

NPR this week lamented, "what powers would a CAR CZAR have if a bailout was organized?" How would tax payer interests be safeguarded?

Its pretty safe to say, though, that the BUSH Administration has been a wrecking crew for our foreign and domestic policies.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 12/13/2008 7:55:40 AM >

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 8:22:12 AM

thornhappy

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Hi folks--

Where are the 28/hour figures coming from? For what jobs? Toolmaker? CNC operator? Entry-level assembly worker?

Some of the figures from previous threads had the hourly wage of a Japanese factory worker's as being around 17/hour vs 22/hour for the American's (IIRC, these were from 2004 or so). The 72/hour includes all benefits. That would be lower in Japan in part because they have a nationalized health system.

BTW, one big bad side effect of any or all of the Big 3 going down would be a huge hit to our health systems due to people losing their health insurance. It's bad enough with all the layoffs from this year; add the auto companies and their subsidiary industries to the mix and we'll be collectively screwed.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 8:34:39 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

They don't give a shit about the millions who indirectly rely on the Big Three for their jobs. The suppliers, the banks that fund the suppliers, the people who work for the suppliers, the grocers and doctors and mechanics and hair cutters who serve the people who work for the suppliers. No, they could give a shit about the country.

A very accurate description of the UAW. The UAW never gave a rat's ass about anyone or anything except coercing union dues out of the sheeple.

Want to save the Big Three? Bust the UAW and send Gettelfinger and his stupid band of fuckups to the unemployment line. They've fucked this country over long enough.

edited to add, it wouldnt hurt to cut back on some of the sillier gov regs. I mean really - do you need a light to go on if your tire is getting low? And does it really help if they cant get the things to work right anyway?

< Message edited by thishereboi -- 12/13/2008 8:36:26 AM >

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 9:17:39 AM

TNstepsout

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Hi folks--

Where are the 28/hour figures coming from? For what jobs? Toolmaker? CNC operator? Entry-level assembly worker?

Some of the figures from previous threads had the hourly wage of a Japanese factory worker's as being around 17/hour vs 22/hour for the American's (IIRC, these were from 2004 or so). The 72/hour includes all benefits. That would be lower in Japan in part because they have a nationalized health system.

BTW, one big bad side effect of any or all of the Big 3 going down would be a huge hit to our health systems due to people losing their health insurance. It's bad enough with all the layoffs from this year; add the auto companies and their subsidiary industries to the mix and we'll be collectively screwed.

thornhappy

I don't know exactly where that figure comes from, but I was listening to a discussion on this topic on CNBC a few days ago. I think they mentioned that $28 was the top but $14 was the starting pay.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 11:49:42 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Hate Bush often leads to only downing Bush, and never acknowledging when he does something good. I am not a Bush fan, but I always find it hypocritical when people hate anything a particular person does, because of who is doing it and not what is being done. So the example of Disgust with "Neo Cons" and then the supposed leader of those Neo Cons actually doing something to help, links together. See how that works?

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

So those that are screaming that the Big 3 need to be saved, that also hate Bush, are going to say "Good job" when Bush taps into funds to help the Big 3?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/13/AR2008121300539.html

What exactly does one have to do with the other?

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 12:24:50 PM

popeye1250

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You know, I'm starting to see a pattern here.
Why not cut everyone's pay?
Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, Nurses, Managers, etc.
I mean how can surgeons explain and justify a $25,000 bill for a 3 hour operation?
The insurance cos and Medicare/ Medicaid don't question that?
We can import Doctors from India who will work for 20% of what Doctors in this country work for!
Or lawyers $650 for "filing a motion?" (Filling out a form)
And there are Armies of Lawyers out there!
I think we need to examine *everyone's* incomes if we're going to get away from the free market system.
Let's get this "global economy" going and get some real cheap "Proffessionals" in here to do the above jobs! Time to make those salaries *real* competitive!
Whatever happened to the law of supply and demand in this country?
If we're going to get away from capitalism in this country then let's cut everyone's pay!
Then we can have the 7/11 worker seated right next to the surgeon and the autoworker in the country club.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 12/13/2008 12:46:20 PM >

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 1:09:40 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

And there are Armies of Lawyers out there!

So let's kill all the lawyers.

Take everyone with a law degree, line them up against the nearest wall, exterminate them like vermin.

Start with Harvard grads, then Yale, then Stanford......

Kill 'em all, let Lucifer have some fun.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 1:19:26 PM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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quote:

are going to say "Good job" when Bush taps into funds to help the Big 3?

Yes, Please let him make one non-country-damaging decision before he leaves office, the duffus. M

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 1:25:19 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Please let him make one non-country-damaging decision before he leaves office

The non-damaging decision would be to say "No".

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 1:27:18 PM

cjan

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Why have so many forgotten that the labor movement in the U.S. is largely responsible for creating the middle class in this country? Many bled and died so that others could have a decent standard of living.

The UAW is not opposed to taking cuts if it means saving their jobs and the industry.It's a complex situation which requires everyone to share the pain. However, imo, it is the management of the big 3 which is most culpable for the mess we are in. They have behaved with arrogance and greed, counting on the government ( read tax payers ) to not allow them to fail. The CEOs of all three need to go, without golden parachutes.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 1:28:22 PM

FullfigRIMAAM1

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You clearly don't work with the auto industry (neither do I), and you're not bothered by the massive unemployment we already have. I also have a bias for keeping some American things, but that is me. M

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 1:33:30 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Hate Bush often leads to only downing Bush, and never acknowledging when he does something good. I am not a Bush fan, but I always find it hypocritical when people hate anything a particular person does, because of who is doing it and not what is being done. So the example of Disgust with "Neo Cons" and then the supposed leader of those Neo Cons actually doing something to help, links together. See how that works?

Yeah, I do.

Forgive me though if I don't jump on the "Bush was one of the greatest Presidents of all time" bandwagon.

Something Republicans are already trying to trot out while Bush's approval ratings are practically non-existent.

The same way a crappy 'B' movie actor became President and now we are told he saved the world from certain destruction.

I'm willing to acknowledge he has had successes but those successes don't erase the many, many mistakes and overall incompetence.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 1:41:07 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

A very accurate description of the UAW. The UAW never gave a rat's ass about anyone or anything except coercing union dues out of the sheeple.

Want to save the Big Three? Bust the UAW and send Gettelfinger and his stupid band of fuckups to the unemployment line. They've fucked this country over long enough.

Great idea!

When autoworkers wages are reduced to $10/hour then Wal-Mart can start importing Chinese cars and we'll all prosper.

Happy days will be here again.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 1:52:51 PM

Aszhrae

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Why have so many forgotten that the labor movement in the U.S. is largely responsible for creating the middle class in this country? Many bled and died so that others could have a decent standard of living.

Nothing wrong with the labor movement but there is everything wrong with the unions. Be it 14/hr or 28/hr, add in all the benefits and then of course there is the pension afterwards which of course helps them maintain their standard of living @ 70000/yr. But hey, that's okay, pro-union would say they earned it. But think about the other side of the coin, if the individual makes 50000/yr, for every 40000/yr another individual is employed.
Unions were needed in the past to protect labor from unfair practices. Girl knows exactly how they must have felt, laboring for master, master put me in some situations that would have been deemed unsafe. Girl can relate.
However, now is not the time to bail out the fat cats with their private jets flying all the way to senate for a bailout. They are not thinking about labor, the fat cats are only thinking about their own pay checks.
And yes, girl does not much care for unions either.

If the big three want a bail out, girl is damn sure if they went to labor and had labor invest in their own future. They might be able to get what they need to bail themselves out. It worked for a great many companies back in 80s. When instead of the company closing its doors for good, the company offered their employees to buy into the company and become vested owners.
If they also did this, they might get the senate to agree to give them the balance needed to keep going.
Then again it may be a conflict of interest if the UAW members bought into the company that they helped to price themselves right out of the market.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 2:18:58 PM

Hippiekinkster

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As I said, the obstructionism isn't about working out a deal that would benefit both workers and stockholders, nor about retooling and integrating new technology, it's about busting the union.

"1. This is the democrats first opportunity to payoff organized labor after the election. This is a precursor to card check and other items. Republicans should stand firm and take their first shot against organized labor, instead of taking their first blow from it."
http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/12/1713569.aspx

How Republicans, with their almost fanatical hatred of the middle class, have managed to convince working-class people in the Red states that a decent wage is against their own interests is a propaganda coup worthy of Goebbels.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 2:24:45 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

You know, I'm starting to see a pattern here.
Why not cut everyone's pay?
Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, Nurses, Managers, etc.
I mean how can surgeons explain and justify a $25,000 bill for a 3 hour operation?
The insurance cos and Medicare/ Medicaid don't question that?
We can import Doctors from India who will work for 20% of what Doctors in this country work for!
Or lawyers $650 for "filing a motion?" (Filling out a form)
And there are Armies of Lawyers out there!
I think we need to examine *everyone's* incomes if we're going to get away from the free market system.
Let's get this "global economy" going and get some real cheap "Proffessionals" in here to do the above jobs! Time to make those salaries *real* competitive!
Whatever happened to the law of supply and demand in this country?
If we're going to get away from capitalism in this country then let's cut everyone's pay!
Then we can have the 7/11 worker seated right next to the surgeon and the autoworker in the country club.

Yeah Popeye,you got it!

A race to the bottom,with less and less for everyone.

Damm the unions for wanting to improve the pay and lives of workers.

The problem is that no one`s buying cars all of a sudden.Cars were selling just fine not long ago.

And that has nothing to do with labor.Nothing.

It has everything to do with management and the present CEO and manager of the US, the anointed one,George Bush.

It is disgusting that cons would create this mess ,then try to use it,exploit it, to hurt American workers when they`re most vulnerable.

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RE: I am so disgusted... - 12/13/2008 2:34:03 PM

Aszhrae

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Republicans want to run everything, We all know and knew, republicans always want to fight someone. The whole bloody party are paranoid and thinks everyone is out to get them. So they get them first.
But, girl is not in favor of the union, never have and never will.

Really do think that if the union wants to survive they need to buy into the big three. The big 3 are thinking about a quick fix. They want to thumb their noses at the Republicans, then they should do it themselves and they should be able to rally.

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