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if only to ensure that workers earn enough money to make a profit from the fruits of their labour, a point frequently overlooked.

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America needs MORE unionization, not less.

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ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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It's very odd that some people would think that working class people making a good week's pay is a "bad" thing.

It's only bad if it's more than what the market will bear.

It's only bad if it makes the worker's output to costly to sell in a competitive market.

And when it's bad, it's bad for everyone.

OMG!!! Celtic I agree with you on something. (I better look outside and make sure the sky is still there)

This is EXACTLY the problem we have with the UAW and some other unions. The pay is more than the market can bear. The auto makers can no longer pay these high wages/benefits and make cars that compete in the market. Yes it's nice if everyone can be guaranteed a living wage and benefits but that's a pipe dream. That is not the reality of the economy now or ever. What other industry anywhere starts high school grads with no additional education at $14 an hour with the potential of making as much as $28 with full pension, health benefits etc.... My kids are right at that age and believe me if there was anything close they would jump at it.

...

As far as cutting wages in other industries and comparing UNSKILLED auto workers to doctors, lawyers etc.... Get real! What comparison is there? Doctors and lawyers sometimes spend 100's of thousands of dollars on their educations they have to pay back! And don't think it's all a cakewalk for them either. My ex worked for a doctor for a time who worked 80 hours a week and struggled to make payroll many times. He had so much overhead he had to carry with his office space, insurance, clerical staff (big expense because of the cost of filing insurance paperwork/transcription etc...) nursing staff, supplies, computers, repairs etc.... He would have to wait sometimes 90 days to get paid. How many businesses could manage to wait 90 days for payment? HE struggled through 8 years of school so he could work 80 hours a week and be a pauper! What's fair about that?

The truth is that most other UNSKILLED jobs pay far less than what autoworkers are making. In Dallas, most unskilled labor, such as retail employees, office clerks, waitstaff, warehouse jobs, delivery drivers, etc.... make aprx $7-10 per hour. Most without benefits. The next level up, people with some experience in these areas, or who make it into management, will make around $10-$14. You will never ever see anyone in an unskilled job making $28 per hour, no matter how long they've been with the company. It just doesn't happen. So what makes automakers so special that they not only want that, but they deserve it?

Sorry but I just can't feel sorry for these spoiled brats who helped drag an entire industry to it's knees becuase they were unwilling to give up anything. Screw em' all I say. The execs in their private jets AND the workers too. Let them see how the rest of the world manages. Maybe they will learn some gratitute.

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ORIGINAL: Vendaval

I find it interesting how many people posting here are very anti-union.  Several of my family members were union but not specifically UAW as we are mostly on the West Coast.  The union was a benefit to the working people during their working years and in retirement too.

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ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
How Republicans, with their almost fanatical hatred of the middle class, have managed to convince working-class people in the Red states that a decent wage is against their own interests is a propaganda coup worthy of Goebbels.

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ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
As far as cutting wages in other industries and comparing UNSKILLED auto workers to doctors, lawyers etc.... Get real! What comparison is there? Doctors and lawyers sometimes spend 100's of thousands of dollars on their educations they have to pay back! And don't think it's all a cakewalk for them either. My ex worked for a doctor for a time who worked 80 hours a week and struggled to make payroll many times. He had so much overhead he had to carry with his office space, insurance, clerical staff (big expense because of the cost of filing insurance paperwork/transcription etc...) nursing staff, supplies, computers, repairs etc.... He would have to wait sometimes 90 days to get paid. How many businesses could manage to wait 90 days for payment? HE struggled through 8 years of school so he could work 80 hours a week and be a pauper! What's fair about that?

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ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
Even when the GM plant here in OKC was still open, I think the highest paid position there was only like $17/hour. 

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ORIGINAL: Aszhrae
Unions were needed in the past to protect labor from unfair practices. Girl knows exactly how they must have felt, laboring for master, master put me in some situations that would have been deemed unsafe. Girl can relate.

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ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
Yes it's nice if everyone can be guaranteed a living wage and benefits but that's a pipe dream. That is not the reality of the economy now or ever.

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ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

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It's very odd that some people would think that working class people making a good week's pay is a "bad" thing.

It's only bad if it's more than what the market will bear.

It's only bad if it makes the worker's output to costly to sell in a competitive market.

And when it's bad, it's bad for everyone.

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ORIGINAL: rachel529

heres what i dont get... if the union is asking for too much money, cut the wages and let them strike.  im sure theres plenty of people who would love to make 23/hr and cross a strike line, and just because they are unionized doesnt make them sacrosanct.  task one for the car czar?

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

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ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

Girl is far from being disgusted.
Honestly the big three did it to themselves. Priced themselves right out of the market, Union heads only really care about the union dues that they receive and each time the company shows a profit the UAW decides that its time to go on strike.
Awww, poor babies. Did it to themselves.

Did the unions force GM to produce 8 different Escalade models that won`t sell during 4 dollar gas times?

Did GM pass corporate laws empowering the UAW to set wages and benefits well beyond what their competitors charge ?
Did GM pass environmental laws making it impossible to drill or open a new refinery in the last 3 decades ?

The government did both, the former made it impossible to compete profitably at the low end of the market. So GM did
what they could. They concentrated manufacturing on higher margin models like the Escalade. The environmental laws
produced $4 a gallon gasoline which priced the middle class out of the Escalade.

There will be no drilling or a new refinery built for at least the next four years. The cap and trade environmental regulations
being talked about will bring gas, diesel and fuel oil back up from their recent lows.

A lot of you want socialism, now your going to get it, stop your bitching about your reduced standard of living.

No one is selling cars right now.Every brand,even imports are down.

Brilliant. I would of never guessed.

700 billion for bankers (who produce nothing)with no accounting and we can`t drum up a 14 bil. bridge loan for Detroit?

Umm...let's see. Banking industry goes down and *EVERY* SINGLE DAMN BUSINESS (starting with the big 3) goes down.
You seem to think the money spent on the bankers has something to do with people in government thinking they
deserve it more. It's about consequences not morality.

Something`s a miss.

To put things into perspective,we throw 14 billion dollars down a rat hole every month,in Iraq.

Please, your party has moved on to forcing everyone into socialism and servitude. Please move on from yesterday's
propaganda. Your party needs your help in trying to convince other people slavery (ie socialism) as opposed to freedom
(capitalism) is in their best interest. Please try to keep up. Your party doesn't want anyone to notice the war is won so i'm
sure they'd appreciate you moving on too.

We can`t get that much to help out the big three?

~~~~~~~~~~

We could easily fall into an economic depression,if Detroit fails.

I hate to break it to you, but your party believes the worse things get the better off they will be. They have absolutely
no motivation to do anything that would help the fundamentals of the economy as opposed to just pay lip service to it.

There`s an estimated 16 million more home foreclosures to come in the next two years.

Wait, i thought *only* the rich were supposed to get fucked up the ass the next four years (and i mean that in a violent
un-collarme kind of way).

Letting Detroit fail would only add to that.

Detroit is done. Federal policy has seen to that. Some Democrat politicians are now figuring out that the millions upon
millions of dollars the UAW provides in campaign donations are about to go away so they are trying to figure out how to
keep these companies around a few more years at *our* expense.

I`m still quite amassed at the lackadaisical attitudes concerning out economic future.As if folks were some how immune to job loss,business loss,home loss,retirement savings loss,etc.

No dude, you just haven't been paying attention for the past 40 or so years. Sorry to say, even with this crisis you're still bitching about rich
uncaring corporations, not the scumbags in the government you've been empowering.

Dosen`t everyone have to eat,wear clothes,stay warm and dry?

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ROFLMAO, You'd cross a UAW picket line for $23 an hour ? If you're lucky your car will be torched. If you're unlucky you'll be trapped in the car when it happens.