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RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/14/2008 7:24:22 PM

DDraigeuraid

Posts: 321
Joined: 4/3/2008
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OK, I am somewhat isolated. Playboy is still in Business?? Haven't seen one in years.
Dragon

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Post #: 41

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 4:24:11 AM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DDraigeuraid

OK, I am somewhat isolated. Playboy is still in Business?? Haven't seen one in years.

and i bet you go to Hooters for the wings

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Post #: 42

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 6:25:33 AM

housesub4you

Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
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Wow, how come we can't live in a world where no one ever offends anyone?

Jeez.....I was flying last year reading a Playboy and member of the crew asked me to put it away because it was offending someone who could see it as they walked past my seat. I was reading the interview, not looking at the centerfold,... I was admiring that in the cab to the airport

Ahhh....what is this world coming to

< Message edited by housesub4you -- 12/15/2008 6:28:58 AM >

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 43

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 6:47:57 AM

corysub

Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

What do I think? I think that issue will sell twice as much as normal.

As for the Playboy cover and the reaction by the Catholic church, I think a religious sect whose leaders have done so much to cover up and deny sexual child abuse for decades, even centuries, and to repeatedly allow it by relocating known pedophiles, has lost the right to be offended by a photo.

How about catholics like me...dontcha think WE are offended if the Virgin Mary is used in a porn magazine? Is there no respect for the religious beliefs of others anymore? You won't see a nude Mohammad because the editor would find his head being lopped off..but it's soooo freakin easy to ridicule christians...up to now there has been no downside risk. Sure there are problems with the Catholic faith. Wherever humans are involved you are going to find weakness, perverts, and out right criminality. I don't think, however the Catholic church has a monoply on that..they are just bigger than most religions around the world and been around longer than most other than Jewish and witchcraft believers.
I'm here on a BDSM venue so obviously not a good catholic boy...full of sin I guess. However, I don't like people casting stones at my religion as an excuse for outrageous attacks on our icons.

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 44

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 6:55:52 AM

corysub

Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
You'd think the iconic vessel for all creation would be accepted as the fertile, feminine creature she is, instead of cannonized into an untouchable and untouched virgin. To me, THAT is sacriledge.

Bravo.

Bravo my ass!
Well, catholics believe Mary is the mother of Jesus...not a feminine "vessel" or fertile "creature".
Mary, because of her faith, became the mother of believers, we don't see her "sexually". It
is sacrilage to pose that model nude...and if it was a muslim Mary that editor would have his/her head
sliced off.

< Message edited by corysub -- 12/15/2008 6:56:50 AM >

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 45

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 7:38:12 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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Yeah, and I suppose y'all still believe she was a virgin.........rolling eyes. First and foremost, regardless of religioun, she was a woman. There is nothing wrong with celebrating the feminine. Sacrilege my ass.

You don't like it, do not look at it or buy it.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 46

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 7:52:17 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
It is sacrilage to pose that model nude...and if it was a muslim Mary that editor would have his/her head sliced off.

Three things: one, your talk of sacrilege is irrelevant in the XXIst century, especially since you are describing an act of 'sacrilege' that was committed outside of your juridiction - it's not up to you to denounce something as sacrilegious. The Inquisition is over. Secondly, the mag was published in Mexico, so it's none of your business (and I don't care whether you're a Catholic or not: it's not even happening in the country where you live). Thirdly, your hypothesis that a joke about a "Muslim Mary" (wtf?) would get the editor killed is pure speculation. Calm down: iconoclasm won't kill you.

And... how do you feel about freedom of speech again?

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Post #: 47

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 7:57:09 AM

Lucylastic

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Muslim editions of playboy, do not have nudity in them.

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Post #: 48

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 7:58:06 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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You mean that there are Muslim editions of Playboy? But... what's left in them then? The "articles"

?

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Post #: 49

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 8:01:58 AM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
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snicker, well indonesia is one country that has non nude version, not sure.... never managed to get my hands on one.

Isnt that all anyone buys playboy for? those and the jokes
Lucy

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Post #: 50

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 8:02:56 AM

CarrieO

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Joined: 1/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

Well, catholics believe Mary is the mother of Jesus...not a feminine "vessel" or fertile "creature".
Mary, because of her faith, became the mother of believers, we don't see her "sexually".

I have yet to meet a mother that wasn't a "feminine vessel" or a "fertile creature". Where is the sacriledge in that?

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(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 51

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 8:24:36 AM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

quote:

Regardless of whether "outside" people agree or disagree with Catholicism/Christianity, this is the belief of these people and what is on that front cover shows a complete lack of respect for those beliefs.

I agree.

It is not only what the content is, but where.

quote:

They have every right to their beliefs, but they don't have the right not to be offended.

Why yes they do have the right not to be offended.

quote:

I'm here on a BDSM venue so obviously not a good catholic boy...full of sin I guess.

You can still be 'sinless' and be on this site. I don't break any of the ten commandments by being here, if you think about it, I doubt you do either. Seeking or discussing bdsm does not make one less Christian, Catholic or other. (This includes being here on a site that has advertisements of the bdsm sort, they are adult sites).

quote:

I have yet to meet a mother that wasn't a "feminine vessel" or a "fertile creature". Where is the sacriledge in that?

The only things strictly feminine about Mary is her ability to give birth, her soft kindness, charity and ability to raise a son to his full potential. The point is, she is piety, devoid of any human necessity of sexual contact or expression of such (physically or in manner). Yes, a true virgin.

I truly don't care what people think as far as disagreeing with the entire religion of it all nor the non-belief of the entire storyline or what some call fable of her in any biblical sense but I do care if someone makes a profit on the exploitation of the truly innocent.

Without boundaries upon shameful displays of our (or another's) religious figures as sacred, when will it end?

(in reply to CarrieO)

Post #: 52

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 8:34:39 AM

WinsomeDefiance

Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
You'd think the iconic vessel for all creation would be accepted as the fertile, feminine creature she is, instead of cannonized into an untouchable and untouched virgin. To me, THAT is sacriledge.

Bravo.

Bravo my ass!
Well, catholics believe Mary is the mother of Jesus...not a feminine "vessel" or fertile "creature".
Mary, because of her faith, became the mother of believers, we don't see her "sexually". It
is sacrilage to pose that model nude...and if it was a muslim Mary that editor would have his/her head
sliced off.

Speaking of sacriledge, by the tenants of your own historic covenants, it is sacriledge to iconize anyone or any thing. The lord, your god, is a jealous god, and demanded that you have no other gods before him. One would assume that commandment included the eternally chaste mother of your christ, or any saints that followed in her wake.

That aside, it is possible to not only educate yourself on the correlation between the various feminine aspects, and their history in the evolution of your faith's dogma, but to also embrace the spiritual without the traipings and shackles of organized religious dogma. For example, the symbolism perverted in the magazine could have as easily been a representation of Kuan Yin, who it can be argued that the iconization of Mary could have been mirrored after. In the overall scheme of things, Christianity is a young, immature religion - that could be argued is largely a bastardization of many older religions. What is sacred to you, could be construed as blasphemy to those faithful followers of older religions that came before.

I respect your right to your beliefs, I simply do not share in your view of what constitutes blasphemy of the sacred, or even share your concept of what is sacred. The womb, as a vessel of creation is sacred in many beliefs. I simply see nothing wrong in celebrating the beauty of that.

Exploiting it for profit, is simply good marketing, as I originally stated and stand by. If it wasn't good marketing, and any moral outrage genuine, it would balance out in the bottom line on a profit and loss sheet.

< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 12/15/2008 9:21:11 AM >

(in reply to corysub)

Post #: 53

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 8:38:52 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

I keep getting Playboys in the mail even though I let my subsciption lapse at least a year ago, so of course I open them to see what's inside. And it's generally the same old thing: airbrushed pictures of insipid young things with fake breasts (and now and then an unimaginative tattoo) hidden among ads for vodka and clothing that's really not à la mode de Lordandmaster. I read the pontificatory opening section of questions and answers because every once in a while they refer to something I've never heard of. The rest is a bore.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Isnt that all anyone buys playboy for? those and the jokes

(in reply to Lucylastic)

Post #: 54

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 8:39:15 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

what you think?

GREAT marketing idea.

they could do a whole series based on female idols/goddesses...no need to single out any particular religion/cult by focusing only on one worshipped female.

quote:

...if it was a muslim Mary that editor would have his/her head
sliced off...

wtf...muslims have a Mary?

(in reply to came4U)

Post #: 55

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 8:49:36 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

what you think?

GREAT marketing idea.

they could do a whole series based on female idols/goddesses...no need to single out any particular religion/cult by focusing only on one worshipped female.

quote:

...if it was a muslim Mary that editor would have his/her head
sliced off...

wtf...muslims have a Mary?

YES!

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Post #: 56

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 9:15:11 AM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

quote:

wtf...muslims have a Mary?

Muslims have most of all the same 'characters', some named differently, some in higher positions (Noah, Peter, Matt. etc...) ie: Jesus (in the Q'ran) was merely a prophet not a messiah. Mohommed (name meaning: highly praised) as Jesus thought himself to be a God, hewas a more prolific document keeper and writer of events, also thought by some to be equal with Jesus except Mohommed was not prophesised (nor prophesised to die). He also made no miracles except some what consider writing the beginnings and basics of the Q'ran. (Surah Maryam, 19:27-33)

He considered Jesus to be like a brother. "O Mary, indeed God gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary – distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near".

*on this note, it is a misconception that pictures of Mohommad cannot be duplicated, they can, they should just not be displayed.

< Message edited by came4U -- 12/15/2008 9:23:06 AM >

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 57

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 9:47:56 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

what you think?

GREAT marketing idea.

they could do a whole series based on female idols/goddesses...no need to single out any particular religion/cult by focusing only on one worshipped female.

quote:

...if it was a muslim Mary that editor would have his/her head
sliced off...

wtf...muslims have a Mary?

YES!

ok, sorry...of course they have a reference to her in their texts, as the mother of Jesus...but, the idolatry and worship of her that takes place within the Catholic Church, like the idolatry/worship of Jesus, never struck this slave as being similar to the way the muslim faith views her.
to be more clear:
this slave sees the "idolatry/worship" of Mary along the lines of idolizing her statuary, naming houses of worship and religious orders after her, selling her image on postcards and plaques, praying to her(or in her general direction), etc.

this slave was just curious to know if the muslim faith has a "Mary", not the "Mary, mother of Jesus".
like, perhaps, the mother of their patron prophet, that gets, at minimum, special recognition...even if it looks and reeks of "worship".

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 58

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 9:59:23 AM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline

My understanding of the Christian faith is one does not worship false Gods (with the exception of the Catholics...who worship whomever the vatican tells them to). Is Mary a God? If not then i cannot see it as sacrilage.

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Post #: 59

RE: Playboy's nude Virgin Mary - 12/15/2008 10:18:24 AM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
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Not seeing them 'half dressed' or on the cover of a nudie mag does not need to create a question of whether they are worshipped as God-like, that is not the point. It is where they are portrayed and how that is the problem. I am not Catholic, their church has become a patriarchal house of bullsh*t.

They only 'worship' her in the sense that she helps draw in crowds of millions women and children (and trillions of dollars I might add). They drew on Mary's ability to create a softer, gentler side in the ideals of repentence and self-preservaton of the sins of the masses (of womenfolk of old Rome and further into and beyond Italy) who would otherwise be just as hesitant to admit faults and sins to their husbands (who likely are busy or uninterested).

Mary herself would no doubt find herself bathing in disgust over the commercialization of any artifacts in her name. Including statues or any other likeness that imitates herself in importance instead of the faithful revering God's words (maybe even places of holy worship) themselves.

Try to think before you compare statues, postcards or prayer beads which are for sale by Vatican (or other sources), to the topic. With ny other items for sale she is at least dressed and not a statue in front of a XXX store itself.

(in reply to sirsholly)

Post #: 60

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