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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/15/2008 9:26:57 PM   
rachel529


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy



No.  i didn't say that.  i am giving credit, where credit is due.  i am saying that President Bush and his policies have kept this country from being attacked again, by anyone, since 9/11/01.
 
joy
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i would like you to expand upon this, as many more americans have died playing iraqi policeman since then, and not by the hands of al qaida...  not to mention the expanded threats from north korea, iran, and our erstwhile allies pakistan

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/15/2008 9:31:10 PM   
Termyn8or


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slavegirl, do you then thank FDR for keeping us from being attacked for many decades ? Hint : Pearl harbor. How long ago was that ?

Also, it was partly FDR's policies toward Japan that made them enemies, they attacked, and FDR knew it was coming. (proven by the FOIA)

So in Bushist fashion, we had to go to war with Germany because Japan attacked us.

So FDR saved us from being attacked for over fifty years, do you think the brilliance of Bush will last so long ?

T

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/15/2008 9:33:08 PM   
rachel529


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it seems to me america has destabilized the whole world in just a few short years, but thats just me i guess...

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/15/2008 9:36:38 PM   
slavegirljoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: manxcat

quote: We (the USA) still have lots of WOMD... Enough I believe to destroy all of humanity. Doesn't that make us a known threat to the rest of the world?



Yes E2Sweet, it does!


manxy


Actually, it makes US one of the primary keepers of the peace in most of the free world.  Much of the world looks to US for military protection and defense.
 
The U.S. provides billions in military aid to our allies, $2.04 billion in military aid was given to Israel in 2005, alone.
 
The U.S. Foreign Assistance Act prohibits military assistance to any country which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights.
 
The Proxmire amendment bans military assistance to any government that refuses to sign the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty and to allow inspection of its nuclear facilities.
 
The U.S. has Memorandums of Understanding, agreements, and treaties with many countries around the world to provide military assistance to them.

Under the NATO charter, the United States is compelled to defend any NATO state that is attacked by a foreign power, within the North American and European areas.

Other major U.S. allies include Israel, Australia, South Korea, Poland, Turkey, Pakistan, Japan, The Philippines, Indonesia, Egypt, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Turkey, Eastern Europe and the Central Asian and Caspian Sea region.

There are over 10,000 U.S. treaties and international agreements in force.

U.S. Collective Defense Arrangements
Set forth below is a list of U.S. collective defense arrangements and the parties thereto:
NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY
A treaty signed April 4, 1949, by which the Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all; and each of them will assist the attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force.
PARTIES: United States, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom
AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND
AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND
A Treaty signed September 1, 1951, whereby each of the parties recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific Area on any of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional processes.
PARTIES: United States , Australia, New Zealand
PHILIPPINE TREATY (Bilateral)
A treaty signed August 30, 1951, by which the parties recognize that an armed attack in the Pacific Area on either of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and each party agrees that it will act to meet the common dangers in accordance with its constitutional processes.
PARTIES: United States, Philippines
SOUTHEAST ASIA TREATY
A treaty signed September 8, 1954, whereby each party recognizes that aggression by means of armed attack in the treaty area against any of the Parties would endanger its own peace and safety and each will in that event act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional processes.
PARTIES: United States , Australia, France, New Zealand, Philippines, Thailand, and the United Kingdom
JAPANESE TREATY (Bilateral)
A treaty signed January 19, 1960, whereby each party recognizes that an armed attack against either Party in the territories under the administration of Japan would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional provisions and processes. The treaty replaced the security treaty signed September 8, 1951.
PARTIES: United States, Japan
REPUBLIC OF KOREA TREATY (Bilateral)
A treaty signed October 1, 1953, whereby each party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific area on either of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and that each Party would act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional processes.
PARTIES: United States, Korea
RIO TREATY
A treaty signed September 2, 1947, which provides that an armed attack against any American State shall be considered as an attack against all the American States and each one undertakes to assist in meeting the attack.
PARTIES: United States, Argentina, Bahamas, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Trinidad & Tobago, Uruguay, Venezuela

During 2004, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovak Republic, and Slovenia were added to the list and Mexico was removed.

http://www.state.gov/s/l/treaty/collectivedefense/index.htm



joy
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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/15/2008 9:39:10 PM   
rachel529


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exactly where did 'invade iraq' come in there?

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/15/2008 9:43:23 PM   
Aynne88


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Then perhaps the war mongerer ought to have attacked the people that attacked us instead of occupying a different country?    

I thank him too, for finally get out of office before he fucks anything else up. Good riddance.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: rachel529

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

It's called strategy.  Eliminate Saddam--a known threat--and weaken al-Qaida--another known threat.

In the real world (where there are bad guys that want to hurt you) that's how its done.


Thank You, celticlord, for, once again, being the voice of reason and sensibility.
 
As of, 11:20 PM EST (NY, NY) on 12-15-2008, it has been 2,652 days, 15 hours and 34 minutes since our country was ruthlessly attacked on Tuesday, September 11, 2001 at 8:46 AM EST (NY, NY). 
 
Thank You, Mr. President, Mr. Vice President, and our military men and women for keeping this country and my children free from further attacks over these past 7 years.
 
joy
Master David's erotic-domestic slave



are you saying iraq is responsible for the plane hijacks?  really?


No.  i didn't say that.  i am giving credit, where credit is due.  i am saying that President Bush and his policies have kept this country from being attacked again, by anyone, since 9/11/01.
 
joy
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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/15/2008 9:44:44 PM   
NormalOutside


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rachel529

it seems to me america has destabilized the whole world in just a few short years, but thats just me i guess...


Of course it's not just you.  America is a bankrupt, but powerful imperialistic power, spreading terror and hate through all humanity.  Anyone who pays taxes to the US govt has the blood of a million Iraqis on their hands and I mean that in the most literal way possible.  Shame!


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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/15/2008 9:58:06 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

No.  i didn't say that.  i am giving credit, where credit is due.  i am saying that President Bush and his policies have kept this country from being attacked again, by anyone, since 9/11/01.

Not quite.  By that same logic you could say he also protected the planet from being destroyed by asteroids or Martian attack.  You can give him "credit" for many things, protecting us from another 9/11 is not one of them.

~stef

< Message edited by stef -- 12/15/2008 10:00:14 PM >


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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/15/2008 11:24:20 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavegirljoy

The U.S. provides billions in military aid to our allies, $2.04 billion in military aid was given to Israel in 2005, alone.
 
The U.S. Foreign Assistance Act prohibits military assistance to any country which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights.

 
....seriously, you don't see the irony in putting those two paragraphs together?

 
quote:

The Proxmire amendment bans military assistance to any government that refuses to sign the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty and to allow inspection of its nuclear facilities.


...would that specifically exclude Pakistan?
 

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/15/2008 11:26:08 PM   
BbwCanaDomme


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So, the "George Bush is the reason we haven't had more terrorists" argument is kind of like the tiger repelling rock from that episode of the simpsons, right? You can't prove the rock is doing anything, but you also don't see any tigers around...

Anyways, all the Iraq thing has done is kill a bunch of innocent people who didn't need killing, as well as create a new generation of anti-American extremists, who in a decade or so are going to pull another 9/11, and to be totally honest, I won't blame them. The only difference between 9/11 and what the US is doing to Iraq right now, is organization, money, and government involvement. Also the death toll.

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 1:16:21 AM   
Aneirin


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What 9/11 has created though, is a fear in the Western world that there are people capable of launching an attack within the heart of a country, when and where they want.

They have created a situation where suspicion is rife, suspicion of others in our own community. The fear and suspicion has done more harm than ever, for it has tightened the security within our countries to the point where all of us are now treated with suspicion, we are all potential terrorists in the eyes of our security.

Our armies fight overseas, our taxes fund a war we cannot win, yet at home, we are falling apart. Honestly,  given what appears to be happening,  Al Quaida have achieved an aim, they have caused once great nations to die from within.

Just look at what has happened in America and Britain in these past seven years, how have we changed on a domestic level. For one thing we now have well at least in Britain, new laws passed in haste, laws that threaten the security of anyone national or not, and a special squad formed in a name but used for whatever by it's controllers, whatever abuses that would be unthinkable in the past.

Where will this all end, how do we stop the rot from within, perhaps one thing we should all consider is that we no longer are the powers of the past, our greatness has waned, we are just nations with a history. Perhaps even we should consider surrender and tend to our own businesses, let them be so they may let us be and there concentrate our energies and resources on where it matters the most, rebuilding of our countries, the military just tend our borders, those borders around our actual lands.

I know very little about President Bush other than what I read here and observe in the news, so cannot really say that much for or against him, but there is one thing above all things that he has said or done that I for one will damn him to hell for, is the stupid,  ill thought out,  post 9/11, '  vow ' , on world viewed television, the word, ' Crusade ' , for with that given the history of Islam and a very real remembrance, he announced war on the Islamic nation, something that has lost him credibility world wide. Perhaps even it is there are more enemies in our midst than should be at all, perhaps extremists waging war against the crusade that was vowed ?

Iraq, Iraq was about oil, nothing else, Sadddam was just an excuse.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 12/16/2008 1:20:45 AM >


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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 3:03:49 AM   
SilverMark


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Ahhhhhhhhh....the never ending and circular George W. arguments...No way to justify a war with Iraq, claims that he has protected us from terrorists, Al Quieda in Iraq,
etc. etc. etc. Just be glad it is over soon, those who like the man will continue to do so and those who dislike him will do the same.
I thought his speech after 9/11 was his one moment in history.....and will give him credit for that one moment, just hope as a country we survive the the damage done almost every moment since. A war that needn't have happened, while one of the largest cities within our country sank in water, mud and wind damage, damage to the American economy that might be 20 years in fixing, (see the 10 billion spent in Iraq each month after the war was supposedly over) damage to the reputation of our country, a Vice President run amok, and a smugness that to this day I cannot understand by a man who just now figured out that history will be ruthless. Good luck Georgie Boy.....your exit has been too long in coming....

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 3:38:14 AM   
LadyEllen


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I just couldnt get over the comment after the footwear incident - Mr Bush has no idea what the guys' gripe is and believes he just wanted to get on TV.

There are no words, except perhaps dolt, to account for this man.

E

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 3:41:49 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen


There are no words, except perhaps dolt, to account for this man.


i can supply you with a few...


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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 4:21:59 AM   
Aneirin


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This says it all ;

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LCQa4iFmkW4

Bring back Spitting Image !!!


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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 5:14:58 AM   
LumusandtheLady


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I don't suppose when Bush is tossed out you could take Harper with him...?
 
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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 6:15:57 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

I just couldnt get over the comment after the footwear incident - Mr Bush has no idea what the guys' gripe is and believes he just wanted to get on TV.

Sounded about right to me. 


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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 6:38:16 AM   
Sanity


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Wasn't a threat?

Saddam Hussein was determined to enslave the entire Middle East, and towards that end he waged two massive wars against his neighbors, one of which was a perfectly peaceful Kuwait. Saddam Hussein sponsored terrorism against Israel, and he slaughtered and tortured his own people with real torture, and not kinky the little butt pyramids that the editors at the New York Times could never print enough of.

Bill Clinton even had the Air Force patroling Iraq daily to try to keep the peace there, and Saddam had those same jets targeted every time he had the chance, endangering American lives. Bill Clinton even signed legislation calling for the overthrow of Saddam Hussein because he was deemed to  be such a threat, and Clinton had war plans drawn up specifically for that purpose.

The entire world had to keep sending in the UN to try to help make sure he wasn't building WMDs, UN teams who Saddam Hussein famously played constant games with...

But he wasn't a threat.

At least you got the "revisionism" part right. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

Actually it's called "revisionism".  In the real world, that is. 

Saddam wasn't a 'threat' (known or otherwise), and al-Qaeda has increased their ranks since we invaded Iraq.

But hey, keep worshiping the wisdom of your Great Leader.  Your ranks, OTOH, are shrinking daily.














< Message edited by Sanity -- 12/16/2008 6:39:58 AM >


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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 6:46:05 AM   
kittinSol


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I thought it was Osama who was responsible for 9/11  ?

Remember: war is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

And the face of your enemy changes at the whim of your leader.

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 6:47:50 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Seven years later, that strategy doesn't look too good.  Didn't you hear all those Republican senators telling us last month that we're LESS safe now than we were before 9/11?

More bailouts, that's the solution!

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

It's called strategy.  Eliminate Saddam--a known threat--and weaken al-Qaida--another known threat.

In the real world (where there are bad guys that want to hurt you) that's how its done.

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 60
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