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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 8:02:51 AM   
Cagey18


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I dont think you can really say that Sadam wasnt a tyranical leader however there were others around the world at the time (still are) who are as bad if not worse and yet we havent waded on in there, i remember an English politician actually saying its not our job to fix other countries problems as justification for going into Iraq but not Africa.

Was he a tyrant?  No doubt.

Did he have intentions?  Probably.

Did he have the means?  Apparently not.  Just a lot of saber rattling, as has been pointed out, but no saber to speak of.   In fact, the UN was in the process of discovering if there were in fact WMDs (there weren't), and Bush threw them out so he could bomb Baghdad.

Are there other tyrants worldwide as bad if not worse?  Unquestionably.

Most important:  Are we to bomb countries unprovoked, because of their intentions?

FSM save us from another CheneyBush ever again.


(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 8:24:41 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		PLEASE kinkroids and I don't often use that word. But, AL-QUEDA DOES NOT EXIST.

Al-Queda is a term the CIA came up with to give a name to Islamic Jihad. The Islamic Jihad was/is a movement created by the Taliban to sponsor and even cause directly...the downfall of corrupt (in their eyes) Muslim governments. It has failed.

Once that failure was confirmed, Bin Laden went to them and asked permission to recruit people to help him attack the US.

The Taliban REFUSED to attack the US but did allow Bin Laden (needing his money) to recruit from their tribe. The Taliban may damn well be in business with the CIA now in both allowing opium production in Afgan to reach a record 6000 tons. The CIA loves heroin and cocaine as it supports a very profitable 'war on drugs.'

He got 2, that's it. He got TWO to help him and the Taliban never helped in any attack and any so-called network of terrorists such as something called Al-Queda (or Al-Quada, whatever) never existed.

People...kinkroids, the Taliban has visited the Bush white house. Bush, his family and his friends have been doing business and still are with the Bin Laden family.

Osama Bin Laden was indicted for the attacks on the USS Cole but HAS NEVER been indicted for 9/11. WHY you may ask ?

Because per the FBI..."We just don't have the evidence."

This admin. has given us 8 years of disinformation about almost everything. As a result...I do NOT believe almost any law enforcement, intelligence (CIA etc.) or military statements or investigations about anything...anymore.

Don't get me started on 9/11.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 12/16/2008 8:30:06 AM >

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 8:55:58 AM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

The non-existant WMD's conspiracy?

This past July the AP reported that the U.S. military had finished secretly transfering 550 METRIC TONS of yellowcake from Iraq to Canada.  Yellowcake is enriched uranium with two primary end-uses -- nuclear electric powerplants and nuclear weapons.  Iraq had no nuclear electric powerplants or plans to build any.

I'm beyond disgusted with those who say there were no WMD's in Iraq.


Racer, while Kittensol is as usual, totally wrong, so are you.  There was no secret transferance of the yellowcake, it was all open and in public.  It was under seal by the IAEC, and was never part of the justification for invading Iraq.   So while you have one tiny fact right, everything you spun around it is at best, bad information.

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 9:00:16 AM   
SimplyMichael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

PLEASE kinkroids and I don't often use that word. But, AL-QUEDA DOES NOT EXIST.

Al-Queda is a term the CIA came up with to give a name to Islamic Jihad. The Islamic Jihad was/is a movement created by the Taliban to sponsor and even cause directly...the downfall of corrupt (in their eyes) Muslim governments. It has failed.

Once that failure was confirmed, Bin Laden went to them and asked permission to recruit people to help him attack the US.

The Taliban REFUSED to attack the US but did allow Bin Laden (needing his money) to recruit from their tribe. The Taliban may damn well be in business with the CIA now in both allowing opium production in Afgan to reach a record 6000 tons. The CIA loves heroin and cocaine as it supports a very profitable 'war on drugs.'

He got 2, that's it. He got TWO to help him and the Taliban never helped in any attack and any so-called network of terrorists such as something called Al-Queda (or Al-Quada, whatever) never existed.

People...kinkroids, the Taliban has visited the Bush white house. Bush, his family and his friends have been doing business and still are with the Bin Laden family.

Osama Bin Laden was indicted for the attacks on the USS Cole but HAS NEVER been indicted for 9/11. WHY you may ask ?



Uh, again, a few tidbits of facts rolled up into a pile of BS.

Jihad is an islamic word for war/ holy war.  The Taliban is not a tribe in Afghanistan, it is a religious/political movement that crosses tribal barriers.  The Taliban have NOT visited the white house but they did meet with people in Texas PRIOR to 9/11 over the natural gas pipeline.  And while Bush does busines with the Bin Laudin family and I myself believe knew 9//11 was coming as a concept to believe much more than they took advantage of the attacks is nutery.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 9:08:24 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
<snip while Kittensol is as usual, totally wrong<snip>


 

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 9:08:57 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Al-Qaeda predates the Taliban. The Taliban is not a tribe it is a group of former religious students recruited by the Pakistani intelligence services for the express purpose of installing an islamic theocracy friendly to the Pakistani intelligence service.

Opium production inside Afghanistan plummeted under the Taliban. Worldwide heroin prices had spiked and have come down considerably since the Taliban lost power.

This is all easily verifiable so look it up and verify who is telling the truth.


< Message edited by DomKen -- 12/16/2008 9:10:24 AM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 9:23:37 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		General Reply

I got an idea, maybe it would help matters if the people of the world rounded up all the politicians that caused this mess, Bush, Blair and others, and put them trial for crimes against humanity. Maybe that way it will stop future Western despots from enhancing their career by waging war.

Interesting thing when a country's leader seeks to wage war against another country, they suddenly become so involved in the war, them and their country, it takes the focus off all the other issues that a leader is supposed to deal with, like, managing the country effectively. Now we are into this war, just look at the country we live in, tell me if I am wrong, but we have been better, our nations are falling apart.


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Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Cagey18)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 9:46:12 AM   
Cagey18


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Joined: 9/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

General Reply

I got an idea, maybe it would help matters if the people of the world rounded up all the politicians that caused this mess, Bush, Blair and others, and put them trial for crimes against humanity. Maybe that way it will stop future Western despots from enhancing their career by waging war.


While they can't be "rounded up" per se (at least not legally, and not in their home country), they can be arrested if they set foot in a country that has a warrant out for them.  Or in a country with extradition agreements.  E.g., if Turkey has an arrest warrant for Bush, and he flies to Spain, Turkish police can arrest him at the Madrid airport and transport him to Turkey,

Realistically however, such a situation wouldn't happen, as Obama (or any President) would act to protect a former head of state.  Turkey (or most any other country) knows this, and wouldn't attempt such an arrest.

However, this protection doesn't apply to members of Bush's Cabinet.  IIRC Gonzales, Yee, Rumsfeld, and others already have been warned never to fly into certain countries, as arrest warrants have been issued for war crimes.  For the rest of their lives, their travel is limited (since this warning includes extradition countries, as in the example above).



(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 10:07:11 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:

Realistically however, such a situation wouldn't happen, as Obama (or any President) would act to protect a former head of state. Turkey (or most any other country) knows this, and wouldn't attempt such an arrest


So that being so, that entitles any president to have the carte blanche right to do as they please, surely they must be accountable to someone ?

Is there a similar situation in Britain I wonder, can Blair be hung out to dry. World peace envoy, how the hell did a war monger get that job ?

It would be of interest if Obama or any future President would think to act differently if it meant an end to this mess.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Cagey18)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 10:22:06 AM   
Cagey18


Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline 		Well not any President, but probably most any NATO President.  Ceausescu and Noriega were both arrested.

(edit:  Oops.  Ceausecu was arrested by Romanian police, not foreign police; Noriega was a military general, not President; arrested by US troops as a POW and tried in the US for drug trafficking.  Currently in US prison, awaiting extradition to Panama or France)

AFAIK the situation has never come up with a NATO President before.  I'm guessing that the NATO countries expect each country to handle it themselves. 

According to Vincent Bugliosi's recent book, any Federal prosecutor or any state Attorney General can arrest Bush for murder once he's out of office.  In that situation, Obama would likely not interfere, since he isn't protecting former Presidents from arrest by a foreign power.

< Message edited by Cagey18 -- 12/16/2008 10:27:04 AM >

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 11:51:58 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Why stop there. Why not harass and destroy anyone who disagrees with your political philosophy.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

General Reply

I got an idea, maybe it would help matters if the people of the world rounded up all the politicians that caused this mess, Bush, Blair and others, and put them trial for crimes against humanity. Maybe that way it will stop future Western despots from enhancing their career by waging war.

Interesting thing when a country's leader seeks to wage war against another country, they suddenly become so involved in the war, them and their country, it takes the focus off all the other issues that a leader is supposed to deal with, like, managing the country effectively. Now we are into this war, just look at the country we live in, tell me if I am wrong, but we have been better, our nations are falling apart.



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(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 12:20:59 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why stop there. Why not harass and destroy anyone who disagrees with your political philosophy.



You mean the Karl Rove method?

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 12:31:58 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Why stop there. Why not harass and destroy anyone who disagrees with your political philosophy.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

General Reply

I got an idea, maybe it would help matters if the people of the world rounded up all the politicians that caused this mess, Bush, Blair and others, and put them trial for crimes against humanity. Maybe that way it will stop future Western despots from enhancing their career by waging war.

Interesting thing when a country's leader seeks to wage war against another country, they suddenly become so involved in the war, them and their country, it takes the focus off all the other issues that a leader is supposed to deal with, like, managing the country effectively. Now we are into this war, just look at the country we live in, tell me if I am wrong, but we have been better, our nations are falling apart.




My political philosophy ? No, I just want an end to a war that was started on lies.  I would in an ideal world like to see these dangerous liars exposed and brought to book, just like any other criminal.

But back to the OP, Bush saying he didn't know why the journalist chucked shoes at him, that just shows what sort of world he lives in, a world the rest of us don't live in, honestly, does he just read speeches written by others and put in an appearance when he is told to, because he seemed very misunderstanding as to why someone would wish to bestow on him the greatest insult in the arab world.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 12:33:37 PM   
Cagey18


Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why stop there. Why not harass and destroy anyone who disagrees with your political philosophy.



You mean the Karl Rove method?


Skewer!

:applause:


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 12:42:58 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim

The non-existant WMD's conspiracy?

This past July the AP reported that the U.S. military had finished secretly transfering 550 METRIC TONS of yellowcake from Iraq to Canada.  Yellowcake is enriched uranium with two primary end-uses -- nuclear electric powerplants and nuclear weapons.  Iraq had no nuclear electric powerplants or plans to build any.

I'm beyond disgusted with those who say there were no WMD's in Iraq.


You omit the fact that this yellowcake had been under the keep of the IAEA since 1991. They still havent found the WMD`S you are disgusted about though, have they.

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 12:46:52 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why stop there. Why not harass and destroy anyone who disagrees with your political philosophy.



We live in a democracy, these people Blair, Bush whoever they speak for us. They are our voices, they create laws that we then have to live by, they choose which causes to send people off to die for. You know what I would say that they bloody well should be accountable for doing anything in my countries name, why do americans have a bad reputation in other countries? is it because of you rule? or is it because of the people sent forth to represent you?

If you disagree with me you cant start a war, you cant speak for me, i can disagree with you. If Blair or Bush disagree with me, they can. Can you see the differance?

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RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 12:58:07 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Al-Qaeda predates the Taliban. The Taliban is not a tribe it is a group of former religious students recruited by the Pakistani intelligence services for the express purpose of installing an islamic theocracy friendly to the Pakistani intelligence service.

Opium production inside Afghanistan plummeted under the Taliban. Worldwide heroin prices had spiked and have come down considerably since the Taliban lost power.

This is all easily verifiable so look it up and verify who is telling the truth.

Again, I have done my homework and the term Al-Queda was entirely created (or never popularized) to give a name to some ficticious network of terrorists against which we were now to go to war. There was never any network or were there underground bunkers or anything even approaching the spin this admin. wants to put on 9/11 and just who did it.

For all I believe anymore...Al-Queda could have been a group we kept on the payroll and stashed so we could have somebody to blame for any false flag op.

Jihad translated as many words are, generally...means struggle. That struggle can be against anything even their own govts.

The US (CIA) and the Taliban made a deal. Allow the recreation of opium fields and let it rebuild the cash flow to the farmers the belief being there is nothing else immediately available. We've even helped re-create cocane productions under the guise of some of it...some of it going for pharmacy.

I've seen video of the Taliban at the white house with Bush. I guess they could have been actors but to what end.

There were many govts. and intelligent services around the world that warned us that something was coming 9/11. The Isrealis broke their lease ONE WEEK before 9/11 and moved their offices to Norfilk, Va. WHY ?

A tribe can really be a word to decribe almost any group whether on religious or ethnic grounds or in fact...almost any grounds.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 2:02:50 PM   
rachel529


Posts: 197
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline 		bush lied, people died.  and why dont we look at his approval numbers before 9/11, then after.  in fact, lets look at the plane that hit the pentagon.  one hole in the middle, no 10 ft tall steel engines, and the story was kerosene burned hot enough to disintegrate aircraft grade aluminum.  thats bushs story... whatever

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 2:08:27 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

:applause:



Merci, mon ami :-) .

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: I'm beyond disgusted... at Bush - 12/16/2008 2:38:56 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Yeah, sure, uh-huh.

Karl Rove has locked up all of his political opponents...

Right. 

Seriously, kitten - that's the kind of thing you only hear coming from the left.

(See above).


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
You mean the Karl Rove method?


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 100
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