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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

A,

I never did thank you for being one of the first to speak to me here - and, pretty unremittingly, then and thereafter, one of the kindest - and that despite how dodgy I know I've looked since arriving.  So, now: Thank you, with all my heart.

Time for me to come over all intellectual and stuff. 

Most subjects involving human relationships are considered to be overtheorised, these days.  Some quack or another has done his or her PhD on any matter you care to mention on said relationships.  This, however - and in my opinion - is emphatically not the case with D/s relationships.  All we have, so far, is a few fairly pisspoor books written by dominants or submissives with some training or experience in one or another of the psychoanalytic traditions.

What I think is so strongly needed, right now, is some hard science.  Now, I know that that seems inimical to the whole world of emotions, human love and relationships; yet, nevertheless, it seems vital.  I do, very much, feel the need for a list of carefully calculated questions that a dominant should ask of a submissive before she embark on a relationship with a submissive.  What those questions should be isn't my place to talk about.  But, as for submissives - they really, really need to know themselves.

I've read too many posts now, A, about "flaky" subs and by embittered dominants whose souls have been bashed so much and for so long.  Frankly, I think it's time this stuff were brought to order.  There are enough good brains using this forum  for us to stop sodding about and work out some answers.  Or, at least, some sharper questions that would lead to such answers.

I don't like to see so much sadness - especially at this time of year.

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

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ORIGINAL: Man66

Very well put. I've had that experience more than a few times.  I think it's a normal human experience to have periods of waxing and waning interest but I always come back renewed and always a bit more secure in my feelings.  Although I've never experienced it in real life I think enforced chastity might be a good remedy.

The problem is that even with enforced chastity, there will ultimately be an orgasm at some point. And the issue will be the same, in many cases - a total drop in desire, attentiveness.  As much as the beauty in a totally, completely enamored slave is incredibly hot when he's in chastity, it can be equally distressing when he drops of the planet or loses all interest in submission after the huge orgasm.

I think there's a perception also that the femdom isn't as affected when the submissive just loses interest; after all, she's the one in control.  But what some subs don't realize is that even though we (dominant women) seem to be only on the "receiving end" of the attentions, there's an emotional investment that is significant, and when the submissive just kind of drops off, or his attention to detail goes away, it's intensely more difficult to emotionally digest than just a random vanilla blow off. I've wrestled with this and addressed it in other threads.

There's an emotional investment on the dominant side when you know a man is *submitting* to you; when his urges drop and he begins to slip, there's a level of disappointment that can be brutal, even in a casual relationship. I think because the entire dynamic is based on a higher level of devotion - when that just vanishes, it's much more emotionally crushing than when a guy just becomes lazy in general (in vanilla situations).

When I compare courting in a femdom/male sub dynamic to vanilla, I can't explain the difference from when the quintisential "vanilla guy" doesn't return a phone call, do as he promised, etc. Heck - that's just male nature sometimes. But when a *submissive* who days later was working so hard to prove his nature just becomes an incredible flake on a whim, it's much more difficult to swallow. 

I have a casual relationship with a couple of men I will classify as "bottoms." When they get distracted, busy, don't get back to me as quickly as promised, etc. I just chalk it up to circumstances. When a new potential mate, in a submissive/femdom dynamic with me, becomes unexplainedly unreliable, it's intolerable.  As a result, I can't speak for all femdoms, but I cut my losses early - if a guy shows signs of that, I drop him.  I don't want to deal with that headache later.  So to some subs, we may seem incredibly unreasonable.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: Man66

Do you find this is more prevalent in the on-line world.  I know you are married but did you also experience this when you were dating.  This might just be the basic hazard of desire (from either party) though I can understand why it more be more painful in this type of relationship.   Maybe it's just emotionally and physically easier to disappear in an online or phone relationship rather than one where you see the person every day.  I know that there have been times when I've been glued to my computer reading your site and hoping for something new each day and other times where I haven't looked at it for weeks.  I know this is not exactly what you are talking about but it's along the same context of intense desire and interest followed by indifference or maybe just being drained and needed to refill (so to speak). 

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha

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ORIGINAL: Man66

Do you find this is more prevalent in the on-line world.  I know you are married but did you also experience this when you were dating.  This might just be the basic hazard of desire (from either party) though I can understand why it more be more painful in this type of relationship.   Maybe it's just emotionally and physically easier to disappear in an online or phone relationship rather than one where you see the person every day.  I know that there have been times when I've been glued to my computer reading your site and hoping for something new each day and other times where I haven't looked at it for weeks.  I know this is not exactly what you are talking about but it's along the same context of intense desire and interest followed by indifference or maybe just being drained and needed to refill (so to speak). 

No, it's just as prevalent in the real world, not just online.  It's just as easy for a man to not return a phone call, or cancel a lunch date over and over again (the same date he begged for a week previously), etc.  It's just the nature of desire - I have met very few people who have a very steady, even keel when it comes to the mindset and energy for dominance or submission.  But it takes some real life experience to recognize that and focus on controlling the momentum rather than letting it control you.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn

For me, the problem has always been a fear of doing too much or not enough. I've, in the past, been in communication with a woman right after another one got upset at me for being too aloof. So I go the other direction, and then I get cast off because I'm "trying too hard". It's very often a very thin line that is so easy to cross over to the other side.

Right now, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a few women who think I've done the "poof" thing because I decided to move to Korea for a year. Honestly, I needed to do it. I was having some health problems back in the states, and moving to Korea has managed to give me the time to fix those problems. I'm healthier right now than I've ever been (it's amazing what happens when you no longer enjoy eating food at fast food restaurants). I figure that in about eight or nine months, I'll probably be back in the states, but I have a strong feeling I'm going to be a much different person than when I left.

There are many women I have come to know on Collarme who I think would make amazing dominants for a worthy submissive, and there are often times when I'm sad that I'm never going to be that one they're going to find. But at the same time, I really feel bad for them when they don't make the connection they want and need to make, because they deserve to find what they're seeking, and sometimes I wish it was possible for me to set up a quality submissive service so that they could actually connect with the right person, or persons, and everyone would come out fine. Perhaps, one day I might actually create something like that because perhaps what's needed is some kind of clearance process, where we weed out the ones that are looking for sex, their rocks off, or fill in the blank desires they've observed on some femdom porn they watched once at 10 minute intervals.

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ORIGINAL: Man66


It is the nature of desire but I know that when I have a deep affection (beyond just sexual attraction) I would never want to do something that I know would hurt their feelings.   Some people are just flakes and don't care about other peoples feelings. 

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It is the nature of desire but I know that when I have a deep affection (beyond just sexual attraction) I would never want to do something that I know would hurt their feelings.   Some people are just flakes and don't care about other peoples feelings. 

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ORIGINAL: AAkasha
I think there are many submissive men who do not recognize or understand the cyclical nature of their urges.  Granted, some are fairly consistent; but for others, the desire to submit can be a huge, burning need - a large distraction, a need that seems overwhelming at it's height and like they will not survive long without being used or controlled.

Then one day - sometimes related to orgasm, other times not - the desire slides.  Suddenly it's not a priority. Some men think they simply are not kinky any longer. Some reflect back to the way they behaved and they are ashamed a little, or cannot believe it.  So they vanish.  For some time.  Or submission drops low on the priority list. They forget to send the email they promised. The blow off the things they were going to do.

Then some time later- a few days, a couple weeks - the urges strike again, and they cannot believe they blew their chances. They come crawling back.  They promise it will never happen again.  But it does.  Repeat cycle...

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I don't fault them - I just wish they were more honest.  I have the same ups and downs, sometimes. But I know it will be back. It always comes back.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

... For every one of us looking to satisfy that urge, there are several of them.  For each one that we chose to play with, there are others left quite unsatisfied.  Since just saying that they want to play isn't enough, they try to come up with what is.  Since a submissive is more valuable than a bottom, it's easy for them to portray themselves as such to increase their chances.

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ORIGINAL: DominaSmartass

Wow...I'm finding myself wondering if we've been involved with the same person but I doubt it. It's just uncanny. The pattern you describe is not unique to your situation. In a nutshell, I had a boy for 3 months this past summer and from day one he was "perfect" and as you described, begged to be mine, constantly telling me how amazing I am, and then I realize later that he'd been in touch with and keeping up a relationship with his ex girlfriend who still thought they were together and still thought SHE was his dominant! All I can say is that I sympathize with you and I don't know what the answer is. Almost convinced there are no good ones out there.

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DominaSmartass wrote:
In a nutshell, I had a boy for 3 months this past summer and from day one he was "perfect" and as you described, begged to be mine, constantly telling me how amazing I am, and then I realize later that he'd been in touch with and keeping up a relationship with his ex girlfriend who still thought they were together and still thought SHE was his dominant!

azjojoba wrote: The problem could be that you wouldn't have sex with him. Many dommes don't want sex, but the plain fact is that most men do, whatever their persuasion.

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ORIGINAL: Katie2

Hi I have only been on the scene a few years and just a few minutes on CM and I read your post with much interest. It struck me, and still does, about the frequent use of  the word 'love' by male subs. One can be completely drawn in ( and I have been) by thinking they are genuine in their declarations, I am aware now of this easy usage but it does make it difficult to sift the straw from the chaff.