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RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 12:51:41 PM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdmfl

I have to disagree with a number of responses from a personal perspective.
Yes you are his slave, and his property. But you willingly placed yourself in that position because you put trust in him and the relationship you have. Was his ex a slave too? There is no reason to be with the ex on any day except in passing. To spend the day as a family gives the appearance there is still something there on one or both parties. You have the right to know if your trust is being mislead. IF you are in a committed relationship, any type of relationship, the kind of behavior your master is exhibiting while end in hurt for you in the long run.

Maybe if they are still in junior high! We are talking grown adults here, with a huge shared past, kids, etc. ADULTS! Not pouty little teenagers that don't have a clue.

I guarantee if this was the ex writing about her terrible ex husband putting his new slave of 6 months, over his childrens request to spend a holiday with them......there would be COMPLETELY different posts!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to kdmfl)

Post #: 41

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 12:56:20 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

There is no reason to be with the ex on any day except in passing. To spend the day as a family gives the appearance there is still something there on one or both parties.

This will not work if you remain friends with your ex's family. And also when your kids reach adulthood and want both parents present during rights of passage (graduations, weddings, etc)

To spend the day as a family also gives the appearance that people are able to resolve conflict for the good of the whole.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to LaTigresse)

Post #: 42

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 1:09:20 PM

E2Sweet

Posts: 649
Joined: 7/8/2008
From: TopLeftCornerOf, OH, USA
Status: offline

After reading the OP and the entire first page of replies I have to ask: What role is it OPer that you play in this man's life? Are you in fact the slave, or the girlfriend, or some blend of the two? I ask simply because if you came into the situation with all intentions of filling the slave role, serving his needs and desires (I'm assuming that's a very very short summary of your role) then what's really to discuss here? If he's not going to be there to be served, then that, as they say, is that. Unless you've established some sort of say in these types of matters with your master, as the slave here, what are you doing involving yourself in the decision of where he spends the holidays at all?

I ask all this not to be rude or snarky at all, but really to get to the core of why it seems (by reading the OP) your relationship dynamic of slave/master has seemed to have become so..... overcomplicated, and seems to be skewing into boyfriend/angry girlfriend territory...

Edited to add:

...and the reason I bring up the boyfriend/girlfriend point is because I can't help but wonder if the underlying problem here is that, you (the OPer) see your relationship as more than M/s but with elements of bf/gf mixed in, and your master simply does not see the relationship that way at all. That would seem to me to be one reasonable explanation as to why this issue is a problem for you but not your master...

< Message edited by E2Sweet -- 12/18/2008 1:20:34 PM >

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Post #: 43

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 1:17:04 PM

scarlethiney

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline

quote:

I also wanted to say that I find it mildly offensive that you kept putting the word children in quotations, no matter how old they are, they are still his children, even another twenty years from now, and they will still be important, esp around FAMILY HOLIDAYS.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: ItalianSMistress

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I have re-read the OP, and I see nowhere where she expected to come before his children. They made plans to spend boxing day together, then when his exwife asked, he cancelled those plans and decided to see his exwife and kids instead.

Why is she excluded? Why is his former wife more important than the woman he lives with?

I wouldn't get all worked up over "kids" or "children" in quotes; I saw it as a way to show the children are grown and we are not talking about toddlers that don't understand why daddy doesn't live here anymore, and why is this new woman holding daddy's hand instead of mommy holding his hand.

On to the next thing: I pointed out the quotations because it made it seem to me, that she was trying to point out that they were not young, therefore not as important, and I think that is bullshit. When my kids are 40, they are going to be just as important to me as they are now at their young ages. Everyone likes to see their family together at Christmas, no matter how old they are or if their parents are together or not. For example, last year my wife and I seperated, she moved out in July, but she still spent last Christmas here for two days, because our children wanted her to. Trust me, I was not as impressed, but Christmas is about family, and if they are together or not, they share children, grown or not.

I am not saying your opinion is wrong, just different from mine......

How do you surmise that the OP was stating her Masters children were not as important by virtue of being adult because she put the words "children" in quotes? ............ Instead of assuming why not just ask her??? It's pretty unfair to read words in a post and attach negative criticism to those words when you don't have a person before you to see and listen to the tone or the inflection and the way in which they explain themselves.
I have to agree with everything that Cali said. It doesn't appear to me that she meant anything negative by putting "children" or "kids" in quotes.
I think she tried to be unselfish and then was hurt when her Master took her up on her offer. I too wonder why he would have someone live with him, be part of his life and then exclude them during an important part of the year.
Unfortunately he isn't here for me to ask and I would rather not assume.
I agree with the others chiara it would be best for you let your Master know how you feel..

scarlet

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(in reply to ItalianSMistress)

Post #: 44

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 1:22:08 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Here are some lessons to be learned:
1) don't make an offer unless you can comfortably follow through, don't bluff unless you are prepared to be called on it
2) when in doubt, use this guide: actions speak louder than words

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“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to scarlethiney)

Post #: 45

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 1:40:32 PM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

Hi OP

Did perhaps jealousy play a major factor here? I am not in a M/s relationship, but as a submissive children of all ages should be a priority for the person I am seeing. If it includes an ex, so be it. Went through that with my late husband and his ex and child. Though not a Ds relationship, i always supported any decision he had with his ex and child. I found being supportive of his needs to be a part of their activites made his life a lot easier. That was my mine objective to my husband.

Sir is supportive of my relationship with my daughter. No there is no physical ex , he is well aware we were a close nit family. He takes me to the train station to see her and kitty sits for me. Of course before I leave, he has things that he wants me to do for him, so his life is easier.

Don't let ex's and children put a damper on what you might be able to have with your Master. Create memorable moments through helping him with areas connected to his ex and children.

oceanwynds

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 46

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 4:45:26 PM

ItalianSMistress

Posts: 427
Joined: 1/19/2007
From: Niagara Region Ontario Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: scarlethiney

quote:

I also wanted to say that I find it mildly offensive that you kept putting the word children in quotations, no matter how old they are, they are still his children, even another twenty years from now, and they will still be important, esp around FAMILY HOLIDAYS.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: ItalianSMistress

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I have re-read the OP, and I see nowhere where she expected to come before his children. They made plans to spend boxing day together, then when his exwife asked, he cancelled those plans and decided to see his exwife and kids instead.

Why is she excluded? Why is his former wife more important than the woman he lives with?

I wouldn't get all worked up over "kids" or "children" in quotes; I saw it as a way to show the children are grown and we are not talking about toddlers that don't understand why daddy doesn't live here anymore, and why is this new woman holding daddy's hand instead of mommy holding his hand.

On to the next thing: I pointed out the quotations because it made it seem to me, that she was trying to point out that they were not young, therefore not as important, and I think that is bullshit. When my kids are 40, they are going to be just as important to me as they are now at their young ages. Everyone likes to see their family together at Christmas, no matter how old they are or if their parents are together or not. For example, last year my wife and I seperated, she moved out in July, but she still spent last Christmas here for two days, because our children wanted her to. Trust me, I was not as impressed, but Christmas is about family, and if they are together or not, they share children, grown or not.

I am not saying your opinion is wrong, just different from mine......

How do you surmise that the OP was stating her Masters children were not as important by virtue of being adult because she put the words "children" in quotes? ............ Instead of assuming why not just ask her??? It's pretty unfair to read words in a post and attach negative criticism to those words when you don't have a person before you to see and listen to the tone or the inflection and the way in which they explain themselves.
I have to agree with everything that Cali said. It doesn't appear to me that she meant anything negative by putting "children" or "kids" in quotes.
I think she tried to be unselfish and then was hurt when her Master took her up on her offer. I too wonder why he would have someone live with him, be part of his life and then exclude them during an important part of the year.
Unfortunately he isn't here for me to ask and I would rather not assume.
I agree with the others chiara it would be best for you let your Master know how you feel..

scarlet

Well, I think its safe to assume she meant something by it, if she didnt, she would not have done it, she would have just wrote grown kids, instead of pointing it out both times.....And like I said before, that was my opinion, you dont have to agree.....

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(in reply to scarlethiney)

Post #: 47

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 5:39:23 PM

marie2

Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline

I think you were passive aggressive in your approach to this issue, when you should have just spoken to him directly about it bothering you.

However, I don't think you're wrong to feel "wronged". Forget about master slave for a minute, because all the hype and romance of that dynamic isn't going to erase the fact that you have feelings that need to be considered and addressed.

My ex-husband has 3 children by his previous marriage (all grown now).  But when we first got together, they were 3,5,7 yrs old. We always worked out visitation and holiday arrangements with his ex without much of a hassle.

I'm now divorced with my own child, and I've never played into the whole "my kid/s will always come first" or "my partner will always come first". Nor did my ex do that when I was his wife and a step-mother to his children.

Maybe it's because I came from a "broken" family as a kid, then dealt with a broken family as a step-mother,  and now I've dealt with my own divorce. Kids were involved in all of these situations, and I believe there is room for more than one priority in our lives. I don't think we have to choose one over the other.

If i were in your shoes, I personally would be fine with him seeing his kids (grown or not) any time he wants and I would have no desire to compete with that, but him conceding to a request, not from the children, but from his ex-wife, for her birthday would be a deal breaker for me. I can't believe that this is for the grown adult children. It's what she wants, and probably because you are new in his life and it's burning her ass.

For a holiday, I can understand splitting up the day....where the kids come by your place for brunch, then go to the mothers for dinner. Or he goes over to her place for a couple hours because the kids are there or whatever, but for her birthday?? If they were small, I could understand them having some kind of psychological attachment to both their parents being together on a birthday. But as adults they need to accept the situation for what it is, and let dad get on with his life.

My ex and I frequently socialized with his ex wife and her man, in the interest of the kids (birthday parties for them etc) when they were small.  But in a case like yours, I would have a very hard time believing that my man wants to be with his ex-wife on her birthday for the sake of grown adult children.

I would have been put-out by his decision as well, especially since he had previously made plans with you for that day. So who comes first now? You or his ex wife?   Sorry, but I doubt this is about the kids.

On the Christmas thing, unfortunately you screwed yourself.  I would fess up, apologize for the attitude and explain to him how you really feel about it.  And maybe offer a couple of alternative solutions that don't leave you out.

In this day in age where children are accustomed to shared custody, divorce, splitting holidays etc etc, there shouldn't be a problem with him (and you ) spending xmas eve with the kids, then the kids spending xmas day with their mother, or some other similar arrangement to that effect, especially because the kids are grown adults. Please. He's with you now and there's no reason his children can't be a part of that. It's time for him to cut the apron strings from his ex.

(in reply to chiara)

Post #: 48

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 6:09:16 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I'd have no problem with him saying he would be taking his kids out, or having them at your place. But me being me, I would not appreciate him spending his ex's birthday with her.

Did you discuss monogamy? Did you tell him how you feel instead of trying to dictate what he should do?

As far as cutting off your nose to spite your face, not really. Now you can spend the holiday with your family since he's spending it with his.

However if you think that he will change next year to consider you one of his family, then you are in for a rude awakening. He's told you very clearly that his exwife comes before you, that he doesn't have healthy boundaries there. All you can decide is if this is something you can accept or if it will eat at you. Neither decision will be wrong, they will be what is best for you and that is what you need to decide.

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Post #: 49

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 6:13:55 PM

Usako

Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline

I will never agree with the whole "you're a slave so deal with it" idea but that's just me. Your post was hard to read but if I understood correctly he asked for your opinion and you got pouty over Boxing Day and just said eff it to the whole Christmas idea. Yes, that's pretty selfish. He could have been a macho man douche master and not asked your opinion at all but he did, he was willing to be with you AND be able to see his family, which is a nice compromise. You should have taken it and thanked him for wanting to spend the holiday with you at all.

I don't know if he's introduced you to anyone or not or if you live together or all those other details so I just based my answer on the only info that mattered in your jumble of an OP. He asked for your opinion on a compromise and you fucked up and choose to be alone. You know you did too or you wouldn't be posting here for validation.

Maybe he still has a thing for his ex, maybe his ex still has a thing for him, maybe since the relationship is new you're not his top priority; dunno! But you made a mistake and should tell him that (whether he changes his mind or not) and learn some better communication skills. As for the "her birthday" idea, no clue on that. Perhaps he and his ex are still very close friends, perhaps the adult children are planning to take her out and want him to tag alone, perhaps anything. There could be a million and one reasons but the OP didn't give enough info and I doubt we'd ever know the truth unless all three parties (sub/dom/ex-wife) spoke. All I can tell from the OP is the dom was trying to compromise and she blew it.

(in reply to marie2)

Post #: 50

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 6:39:50 PM

kdmfl

Posts: 118
Joined: 12/3/2008
Status: offline

There are many factors that come into play. I am a divorced father and a very good one. I am involved in my childrens lives and talk to them daily. I would see them more then I do but my ex moved a couple counties away. I still feel that once a divorce is final and the marriage is over there is no reason to spend a day together as a family. I stand corrected if I said this was an absolute because there will always be events in the childrens lives that may cause both families to come together, but it would be as two families coming to the same event. I feel that the original situation chiara has every right to question the situation she has put her self in. I never said he was wrong, but by giving herself to him as a slave, she does have the right to now where she stands and what time of relationship she has. She should ask, even in a D/s there needs to be room for communication.

(in reply to Usako)

Post #: 51

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/18/2008 7:36:58 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I want more clarification on exactly what plans had been made? There's a large difference between her saying a few weeks ago "Hey what do you think about going to the races?" and him bringing tickets home and saying "We're going to the races."

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Post #: 52

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/19/2008 3:37:39 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Exactly, and since the OP has not returned to clarify anything, everyone that has posted is doing so on minimal information. We are probably all way off base.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 53

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/19/2008 7:54:25 AM

windchymes

Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

He can't be Master if you won't let him.

John

If this is the case....is he really Master?

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Post #: 54

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/19/2008 8:50:36 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Chiara.
I am going to partly agree with and disagree with some people here. Now yes, he is the Master, you are the slave etc so blahblah ego - he makes the rules.

BUT - you state that he had made plans with you to spend Boxing day at the races. He broke that arrangement. His error. Bad communication is what I see and letting you down means you need to talk to him and make sure that he isn't consistant in breaking his promises - because that isn't good for you. It's nt a sign of the future, just something you both need to work on.

came4u posted -

quote:

Don't forget, he has known her obviously for 20 years or more, you 6 months-ish. Who do you think has priority right now?

My musing? If he places an ex wife as priority then the relationships fucked anyway, regardless of how long they have known each other. If he places 20 year old children over his property after making a firm commitment to spend time with his property, the relationship is fucked too. And ex is just that, an ex, otherwise they are a now and if that is the case, the OP is being misled. I am friends with my ex as is Darcy with his, but there is no way we would put either of them before each other.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to chiara)

Post #: 55

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/19/2008 9:40:57 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

He broke that arrangement. His error.

He did it at her passive-aggressive request.

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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 56

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/19/2008 9:59:26 AM

lilgirl2008

Posts: 73
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline

I don't exactly know what boxing day is. And I didn't read every single post in reply. I do think people were a bit harsh from what I did read. You agreed to be in a relationship with a man who has children and an ex. Those are all things you have to deal with. You need to be open with your feelings with him. Tell him how you feel. It is very simple to say "i feel bad you are spending this day with your ex. I know it may be selfish of me, this is how i feel." You can't expect him to know how you feel. You also get to see him everyday. He doesn't see his children everyday. So you will, especially at holidays, have to bend a bit. I don't understand why this day couldn't of included you as well. If you live with him, and he is divorced, why couldn't you just come along as well?

The bottom line is..you need to tell him, not us that you feel bad about his plans and let him make the decisions. That is part of submission. It isn't always easy, and sometimes it can be very difficult to put your Master's needs or wants before your own.

(in reply to chiara)

Post #: 57

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/19/2008 10:04:33 AM

lilgirl2008

Posts: 73
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdmfl

There are many factors that come into play. I am a divorced father and a very good one. I am involved in my childrens lives and talk to them daily. I would see them more then I do but my ex moved a couple counties away. I still feel that once a divorce is final and the marriage is over there is no reason to spend a day together as a family. I stand corrected if I said this was an absolute because there will always be events in the childrens lives that may cause both families to come together, but it would be as two families coming to the same event. I feel that the original situation chiara has every right to question the situation she has put her self in. I never said he was wrong, but by giving herself to him as a slave, she does have the right to now where she stands and what time of relationship she has. She should ask, even in a D/s there needs to be room for communication.

Not every marriage ends badly. Sometimes people just don't want to be in a marriage anymore, but can end as friends. I know many people that are divorced and to get together as a family. They often include their new partners as well. It doesn't always have to be a seperate thing. Once you have children with someone, whether you like it or not, you are bonded in a way for the life of that child. I wish more people would try to get along this way instead of having everything be seperate. That makes it very hard on the children. There are birthday parties, and other events that would include both sets of parents.

(in reply to kdmfl)

Post #: 58

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/19/2008 10:38:41 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

He broke that arrangement. His error.

He did it at her passive-aggressive request.

Not really. He was the passive aggressive one in reality. Yeah, she should have been up front and just said what she needed. But he basically placed her in a position she should not have been placed in. According to her OP, they had arranged to spend christmas together, including boxing day to spend time at the races. If he had manned up to his ex in the first place and told her his prior arrangements instead of placing the decision on his property, she would not have had to behave the way she did. I'm not making excuses for her, but he started down the passive agressive path in the beginning.

His first reaction should have been to tell the ex his prior arrangements and work around them. Not agreeing to both his wife and to her. He just wants a quiet life. I don't find his actions at all decisive and place his s in the posiition she obviously doesn't want to be placed in.

the.dark.

_____________________________

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 59

RE: Cutting off noses to spite faces - 12/19/2008 10:49:28 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Would your position, the.dark, be that no Dominant would ever discuss the options with a submissive while contemplating a decision? I tend to be the type who wants to hear input when I am regarding one matter or the other. I find the more information that I have on a particular subject, the better decision I tend to make.

My regards to Darcy.

_____________________________

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 60

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