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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/29/2008 1:51:01 PM   
SilverMark


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holly....I'd feel safer if you carried a Llama

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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 3:55:16 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

       Doesn't matter, Rabbit.  These are arguments intended to appeal strictly to pathos.  Logic and consistency have no place in the discussion, for those opposed to gun ownership.  All that matters is that guns are baaa-aad.


I never knew being logical meant having contempt for any argument that doesn't conform to your view.

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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 4:08:52 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

holly....I'd feel safer if you carried a Llama

Mark...i tried. It ran away when i tried to feed him the leftover meatloaf.


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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 4:20:36 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach


 
The incident  happened about 5 months after dad's stroke, around the time that it was decided that dad would go into a nursing home for care.  My brother and I still lived in the same house at the time - and I was still trying to play peacemaker and do my best to get along with him for dad's sake.  My brother found dad's compitition .45 - which was also what dad kept close to hand for personal protection - while he was drunk and stoned, and in his drunk, stoned state he came staggering into my bedroom at 230 in the morning waving the .45 around, supposedly unable to work the slide, screeching at me about how *I must have broken dad's gun, because he couldn't cock it.  When I told him - bluntly - to put it down before he blew his own foot off in his stupidity, he pointed it at me - suddenly managed to get the slide to work (imagine that!) - and pulled the trigger.  The bullet went past my head by about a foot, through my bedroom wall, through the outter wall of my house, through the outter and inner wall of the neighbor's house, and embedded itself in the interior wall of the far side of that room of the neighbor's house.  While I was in shock at almost getting shot by a fucking Family Member - my brother's First reaction was surprise, then it was to regret that he missed, then to realize that I could have his ass thrown in jail for attempted murder if he didn't start trying to at least Act like it was accidental.


I'm really trying to understand your sequence of thoughts here.

You are saying you have the need to carry a gun to protect yourself from your brother because of an incident when he found and used a loaded gun in your house.

Would we be even having this conversation if there were no gun in the house in the first place?  Or if the gun was unloaded and locked away, since you stated its primary use was competition shooting. 

Apparently the personal protection idea somewhat backfired.



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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 5:41:06 AM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi
Well then it's a really good thing you live there and I live here. I like the fact that I can own a gun and protect myself. There are some right prats in the world.


And I cant think of a time in mine, my family or my friends lives where they needed a gun to protect themselves, what is it that you are protecting yourself against?


I shot a man when I was 13. I was home with my younger brother. My parents were... somewhere else, visiting my father's brother in another state probably. By that age I'd started staying home when they went rather than suffer the all day boredom of sitting and listening to grown-ups talk. My brother was 9 at the time. It was dark. The man trying to get into our house knew we were there. I know that for a fact because the first sighting was at the back door. My brother heard a noise at the door and opened it. Fortunately, we had a screen door that was locked. My brother ran. I went to do the door and slammed it shut, locked it. The man broke through the screen door but couldn't get the main door open. He was drunk. That much was obvious.

We got on the phone, called everyone we could think of. Uncles, neighbors, police. The police arrived 35 minutes later. My uncle had been there for about 15 minutes by the time they came. In the 20 minutes it took someone to get there, the man had gone to a window, broken it and was trying to climb in. It was one of those roll out windows so he was having trouble. Still he was making progress. I'd been taught to shoot early in life. I loaded the shotgun, stepped out on the side porch and shot him in the ass as it was about the only thing left outside that I could see. What followed was almost laughable. My dog decided to show up about that time and took exception to some guy hanging half in, half out of the house. He latched on to one of his legs. The man finally extricated himself and staggered off into the woods with my dog all over him. A few minutes later my uncle showed up. About 15 minutes later the police showed up.

You don't make the best decisions at 13. I supposed I could have let him finish shrugging himself in the window then taken my brother out the front or back door and headed for a neighbors house - but none of them had answered the phone. I suppose we could have just ran. I doubt the man could have caught us.

But it was my fucking house. He was in his 30's. He knew better. The fact that he was drunk was probably both the reason he was doing what he was doing, and the thing that saved my brother at the door when he first opened it. But being drunk is no excuse. I had no remorse at shooting him. I suffered no trauma, no nightmares, and I didn't need mamma stroking on me afterwards. I'd have done it again the next night if I'd had to.  

I've owned guns most of my life, but not for protection. I own them because I like them in the way someone else might like to look at old coins or old stamps. There's a certain beauty about them that's much more functional and practical than coins or stamps or arrowheads. I'd use them for protection if I needed to. I've not felt that need since that night when I was 13. The truth is a lot of people who own them know almost nothing about them. People don't hunt any more. It's not a right of passage for an older member of the family to take the young ones and teach them how to carry them, how to be safe, when to shoot and how to shoot. The first thing that comes to my mind when I see a news story about some kid shooting himself or a friend accidentally is that the parent should be punished for not providing that education, that sense of responsibility and respect for them.

Shrug.

(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 6:27:55 AM   
DesertRat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
      Doesn't matter, Rabbit.  These are arguments intended to appeal strictly to pathos.  Logic and consistency have no place in the discussion, for those opposed to gun ownership.  All that matters is that guns are baaa-aad.


I never knew being logical meant having contempt for any argument that doesn't conform to your view.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

I don't claim to have a sociological explanation for my very simple and fact-based observation: United States = Lotsa guns, lotsa people with guns, LOTS of murders...with guns. Industrialized European countries = Way fewer guns, way fewer people with guns, ridiculously low murder rates...or maybe the U.S. rates are ridiculously high?  

My impression could be wrong cuz I'm just shooting from the hip here (heh), but I think Detroit has more shootings in a year than all of Europe combined. If that's not actually the case, then let's throw in St. Louis and, oh, I dunno, just pick one. Cleveland? Miami? LA?  Is it the higher standard of living that makes Europeans less likely to shoot each other? Could it be the guns? I'd go with the guns hypothesis first, and then, if that didn't pan out investigate some other possibilities.

Bob
Chairman, CPCHCDFFAT (Committee For Peeling Charlton Heston's Cold Dead Fingers From Around the Trigger)

_____________________________

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 6:54:52 AM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

holly....I'd feel safer if you carried a Llama

Mark...i tried. It ran away when i tried to feed him the leftover meatloaf.



DAMMIT  *wipes Mt Dew off monitor*

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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 8:12:23 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
it is? I was told, when i applied for the license to CCW, that having firearms is a right. CARRYING a firearm is a privledge which one must be licensed to do.


In certain states it IS a right, and not a privilege to carry a gun, nor do you need to pay a fee for that privilege. Not all states require you to carry concealed either, thats the beauty of a Republic.

(in reply to sirsholly)
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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 8:23:32 AM   
Sanity


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So long as you're comparing murder rates between Europe and the USA, don't you think you should account for the people murdered by their own governments, people who had no right to self defense?


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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 8:55:39 AM   
DesertRat


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I prefer to live in the present. Also, if our government starts herding us into compounds or ghettos, even the knockdown power of the Glock 10mm won't be much good against armored cops or National guard troops. If it ever comes down to that kind of a shitstorm, it will already be too late. It's better to keep that from happening. 

Looking back over the past eight years, one could argue that Americans are cool with handing over freedoms as long as they get to have their guns. Wiretap me. Search my home on the sly with a secret warrant. Just don't take my gun.

_____________________________

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 8:56:44 AM   
bestbabync


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i carry a gun everywhere i go!  i am trained and certified to carry my gun. 

i believe everyone should be a responsible adult if they chose to carry, they should train with the weapon they carry. 

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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 10:01:41 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
it is? I was told, when i applied for the license to CCW, that having firearms is a right. CARRYING a firearm is a privledge which one must be licensed to do.


In certain states it IS a right, and not a privilege to carry a gun, nor do you need to pay a fee for that privilege. Not all states require you to carry concealed either, thats the beauty of a Republic.

unbunch your boxers. i said that is what i was told when i applied for a permit.

But if you ever get caught by the police with a licensed firearm WITHOUT a permit to CCW, if required,  see how far bellowing about your "rights" gets you

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 12/30/2008 10:02:54 AM >


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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 12:42:10 PM   
Sanity


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Your gun is the gold that backs up the currency of all of your other rights. Without arms, votes (for example) are just meaningless paper ballots, and your vote is merely a substitution for a shot fired in anger, or the means of holding peaceful revolutions...


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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 12:57:21 PM   
dominus79


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As far as comparing murder rates between europe and the united states, you forgot to research the non gun murder rate in europe. It is MUCH higher than here in the US. Casual(ie crimes of passion) murders are still being commited, they just don;t have a gun to do it. Non casual (professional criminals, pre-meditated crimes, and organized crime) murderers are still using firearms, by and large, and they don;t seem to have trouble getting their hands on them. Also, as an aside, here in the US, everyday 55,000 guns are used legally to stop a crime or violent attack. Everyday in the US there are about 5% that many used in the commission of a crime. i don;t care one way or another about the issue, to tell the truth, but I can do math.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/30/2008 2:36:48 PM   
bratnwranglers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

holly....I'd feel safer if you carried a Llama

Mark...i tried. It ran away when i tried to feed him the leftover meatloaf.




you are lucky he didn't spit on you too!!

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/31/2008 1:08:33 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dominus79

As far as comparing murder rates between europe and the united states, you forgot to research the non gun murder rate in europe. It is MUCH higher than here in the US. Casual(ie crimes of passion) murders are still being commited, they just don;t have a gun to do it. Non casual (professional criminals, pre-meditated crimes, and organized crime) murderers are still using firearms, by and large, and they don;t seem to have trouble getting their hands on them. Also, as an aside, here in the US, everyday 55,000 guns are used legally to stop a crime or violent attack. Everyday in the US there are about 5% that many used in the commission of a crime. i don;t care one way or another about the issue, to tell the truth, but I can do math.


Can you do research too?

Stop back when you can show me any valid proof of what you've claimed to be true here.

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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/31/2008 1:13:20 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Your gun is the gold that backs up the currency of all of your other rights. Without arms, votes (for example) are just meaningless paper ballots, and your vote is merely a substitution for a shot fired in anger, or the means of holding peaceful revolutions...



Really?

And here I thought my gun was just a hobby, while I was really defending all my rights, including my right to vote.

Who knew?

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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/31/2008 1:39:10 PM   
DesertRat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
...And here I thought my gun was just a hobby, while I was really defending all my rights, including my right to vote...


Silly citizen. Now you know the truth. The government would love to take all your freedoms but they're scared shitless of your gun. Mine too, I guess. Their puny tanks, missiles, helicopter gunships, satellites, spy planes, special forces, electronic eavesdropping systems, networked databases, chemical and biological weapons, and...oh yeah, guns, lotsa guns, are useless against our pistols!

_____________________________

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/31/2008 1:50:42 PM   
Sanity


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The FBI, the ATF, your local Deputy... they all have to treat a citizen with a little more respect if there's a chance they might be armed, or if they know that in the future they may meet again while said citizen is armed. If you want to discuss a war or a civil war between the people and the government, that may be another debate entirely.





< Message edited by Sanity -- 12/31/2008 1:52:42 PM >


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RE: Why I Carry A Gun - 12/31/2008 2:20:10 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The FBI, the ATF, your local Deputy... they all have to treat a citizen with a little more respect if there's a chance they might be armed, or if they know that in the future they may meet again while said citizen is armed.



Of course.

If a cop pulls you over for running a light just show him your concealed carry permit and he'll tuck his tail between his legs and run whimpering away in his patrol car in fear of you.

Better yet, just tell him that the next time you see him in Wal-Mart you're going to take him out back and settle the score, because you own a gun.

Let me know how that works out for you.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 160
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