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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 5:44:13 AM   
RainydayNE


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Status: offline 		i think it's a slippery slope
if you're used to hitting things when you're angry, then making that progression can be easy and logical for some people
teaching people to hit things when they're angry, whether they're inanimate or not, isn't a sound practice, atleast in MY opinion

i dont think you have to be angry and shouting to demonstrate the seriousness of anything.

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 5:47:42 AM   
Raechard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly
sometimes. but as a general rule you can display anger without damaging anyones eardrums. You can change your tone of voice, use body language, etc

You mean your voice gets higher in pitch to display anger? or you cross your arms? If what you are wanting to convey is anger and people accept those things as signs of anger then what is the real difference? The perception would still be you are conveying anger and some people here are arguing that conveying anger in any form is bad and more about you losing control of your emotions than trying to effectively communicate.
 
In fairness I'd say shouting is a failure to communicate either because you can't find the right words to describe the consequences or perhaps the person on the receiving end of those words doesn't understand those words you are using anyway. Shouting then is a shortcut to instant understanding without misinterpretation of the magnitude of something.

< Message edited by Raechard -- 1/1/2009 6:03:20 AM >

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 8:43:26 AM   
TNstepsout


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout
So what you are saying is that the yellee (one being yelled at), needs to grow a thicker skin, so the yeller doesn't have to change his or her bad behavior?



Well you are being a bit judgemental on what is bad behaviour because I see shouting at someone as completely normal and understandable if the person being shouted at is the one in the wrong and did something idiotic or totally incompetent. If you are saying people are free to make stupid mistakes and still be patted on the back and told good effort then we have to differ on this. I think the world you are living in was written by Walt Disney.

I know two managers with completely different management styles one is Mr Popular and the other is Mr Nasty. One of these people treats their employees as adults by holding them accountable and raising his voice from time to time and the other tries to get his employees to like him which usually just results in his employees taking liberties with his kindness. Maybe Mr Nasty is shouting at his employees and threatening them with disciplinary action because he'd rather not move on to actual disciplinary action. If you are in the wrong then being shouted at isn't the worst thing in the world and sometimes it’s the only way of making someone realise they are in the wrong.

Shouting at someone who doesn't deserve it now that is something different entirely. I’ve never believed in the saying ‘spare the rod spoil the child’ but now you seem to be moving this to the next level and people will end up saying ‘spare the loud voices spoil the child.’
 
It would be a nice world if some people could realise the seriousness of their mistakes without the need to be shouted at.



I'm not sure how you inferred all that you did from my response. I was merely asking you a question. Which I notice you did not answer.



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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 9:08:10 AM   
Raechard


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		The answer was no, (s)he shouldn't change not unless the person raises their voice at every opportunity for insignificant reasons. I hope no one is misunderstanding my position on this I'm saying occasionally raising the voice is required. If someone is always raising their voice then the people be subjected to it either become immune to it and class it as 'their bark is worse than their bite' or they leave that situation altogether because they see it isn't healthy.
 
I can't judge someone who raises their voice occasionally as simplistically as some here can and say "Oh I would never do that." Firstly I'd need some way of comparing how much stress that person was under to me and secondly I'd have to know there wasn't a good reason for it. Easy to sit in judgement of other people when we don't know the first thing about the level of stress they are under or the personal circumstances of the situation. Are there extreme events that would cause you to raise your voice, I’d hope so.


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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 9:15:36 AM   
colouredin


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Status: offline 		I dont think that shouting is the normal response, this may be hard to believe but i virtually never shout at anyone, certainly never in anger (i may shout hello accross a road but I dont shout AT people just like i dont swear AT people).

There are extreme events that cause me to shout and scream and swear of course there are but never at someone else. I may speak out of turn, I may even speak angrily (normally characterised by quicker speech) but shouting I just cant do it. I remember the last time I did shout at someone who arguably deserved it I felt terrible, it was only a sentence I shouted but I just couldnt deal with how badly I felt, it is irrational.

We have all dealt with stress at some point or another, the problem is that we tend to direct the frustration at other people, myself included I get grumpy and petulant but I think thats slightly better than shouting. Shouting is confrontational and can cause fear in the other person something that being monosylabic doesnt tend to do.

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 12:35:48 PM   
YourhandMyAss


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Status: offline 		Holly, I don't set out to pester him, not usually,  But I am sure I could busy myself with  something else,  and I don't, during certain times, when he's most likely to view my repeated "appearances" as being a pest. Like when he just got home and wants to watch UFC And I want to climb closer lay on his chest and  ask him to pause the tv a ton of times  cause I want to talk to him, lol.

quote:

h
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

YourHandMyAss
sometimes Daddy gets impatient with me and will yell* usual after I've said Daddy Daddy Daddy a ton of times in a ton of minutes and I am pestering him for the 15th time he yells WHAT*, and It's exactly what I need to do, grow a thicker hide, because if my hide wasn't so thin, I wouldn't over react to his abrupt shout of what!


i don't think you need a thicker hide, hon. I DO think "perstering" in that manner is uncalled for.


< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 1/1/2009 12:39:28 PM >

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 4:15:23 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Holly, I don't set out to pester him, not usually,  But I am sure I could busy myself with  something else,  and I don't, during certain times, when he's most likely to view my repeated "appearances" as being a pest. Like when he just got home and wants to watch UFC And I want to climb closer lay on his chest and  ask him to pause the tv a ton of times  cause I want to talk to him, lol.

This kind of behavior is not that of an adult.  You know that it irritates him, and you keep on doing it.  That would generally be a no-go in adult interactions. 

thornhappy

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 5:14:42 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

This kind of behavior is not that of an adult.  You know that it irritates him, and you keep on doing it.  That would generally be a no-go in adult interactions. 

Do you think she would try to get away with that behavior if they were living someplace other than her parent's garage?  

~stef 


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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 5:18:10 PM   
piratecommander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What is it with people thinking that if someone throws something or hits an inatimate object, they will get violent with their significant other? How many of you  were taught if you're mad, go punch a pillow or some other object? Now all of a sudden doing that constitutes a red flag for possible future abuse.  Just a little rant after reading a rather lengthy thread from a few days ago. I thought the subject of red flags for abuse deserved its own thread. 


Red flags do not associate with abuse in some cultures (including mine), they associate with something very different.

That said , and in particular reference to the concept of abuse , temper and violence are not the only forms of abuse , indeed , many people suffer unduly due to the common assumptions made by improperly educated "professionals" leading them to ignore or avoid it's more common forms.

It seems to me there's a question of interpretation .... even judgment involved .... the problem , for the purposes of this debate , is that the interpretation and judgment is often made by those without any relevant claim to the experience required to interpret or pass judgment on these matters.As to predicting "possible future abuse" (and presuming your example is applied) (and that by "mad" you mean angry) violence (I'm guessing we mean physical) of this nature is not the sole domain of those who release their anger in the ways you describe , in fact long suffering victims often record a lack of such (for want of a better term) "release" in the perpetrator.

Pirate

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 6:08:08 PM   
YourhandMyAss


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From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Thorn We're primarily a daddy child relationship, Adult behavior isn't always expected in our relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Holly, I don't set out to pester him, not usually,  But I am sure I could busy myself with  something else,  and I don't, during certain times, when he's most likely to view my repeated "appearances" as being a pest. Like when he just got home and wants to watch UFC And I want to climb closer lay on his chest and  ask him to pause the tv a ton of times  cause I want to talk to him, lol.

This kind of behavior is not that of an adult.  You know that it irritates him, and you keep on doing it.  That would generally be a no-go in adult interactions. 

thornhappy


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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 6:11:34 PM   
YourhandMyAss


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From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Yes, we'd be a Daddy child relationship and I would still be bratty now and then, even if we  didn't live with my parents, We were a Daddy child relationship and I was a bit bratty every now and then even when he lived in Petaluma and I stayed with him for 2 months almost too.

Where we live doesn't change the Dynamic, Why would it. Are we to say now you wouldn't be who you were if you lived in say Minnesota, instead of where you do?

I believe you're just trying to make snarky potshots with your comments, but I've come to expect snarky potshots from you and the other croonies around here, so I am not phased.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

This kind of behavior is not that of an adult.  You know that it irritates him, and you keep on doing it.  That would generally be a no-go in adult interactions. 

Do you think she would try to get away with that behavior if they were living someplace other than her parent's garage?  

~stef 



< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 1/1/2009 7:11:36 PM >

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 6:41:38 PM   
thornhappy


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Status: offline 		Do you expect a huge amount of arguments too?  When I was a kid, we got a swatting for stuff like that, and it was really really infrequent.  As we got older we had other punishments, and they were also infrequent.

OP, sorry for the hijack.

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 7:05:44 PM   
YourhandMyAss


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From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		We have our moments, for the most part we get along really well. And the fights we did, slash do have, were not because of having a Daddy child dynamic or that I annoy daddy by asking a dozen questions in a matter of hours, , They were issues most or at least a lot of * now notice I said most not all*  relationships come across now and then, like money. and handling of said money.


I saw someone say somewhere that the two biggest arguments in relationships can be money or sex.
quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Do you expect a huge amount of arguments too?  When I was a kid, we got a swatting for stuff like that, and it was really really infrequent.  As we got older we had other punishments, and they were also infrequent.

OP, sorry for the hijack.



< Message edited by YourhandMyAss -- 1/1/2009 7:24:10 PM >

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 8:05:06 PM   
beargonewild


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Status: offline 		Yet in most cases when a person has a bad temper and it usually leads to yelling/shouting and with saying things which never should be said to another person. For many people, it is a very very fine line that is easy to cross when allowing a bad temper to overwhelm them. What also needs to be made plain and clear is the fact that for some people, when the temper is all encompassing, the line between rational thought is ignored. This in essence is a form of verbal abuse. I find it quite absurd that the concept of verbal abuse is treated in a laissez- faire manner just because there are no bruises or broken bones. There is a huge difference between a couple having an arguement with angry emotions and a couple who cave in to bad tempers and continually degrad, abase and belittle each other. Each situation has to be looked at on it's own merit and the surrounding circumstances to gain a more accurate picture.

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 8:08:07 PM   
NormalOutside


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Status: offline 		I don't hit/kick/scratch/bite anything, outside of consensual S&M play, whether angry or not.  I've known many people who DO like to stomp, yell, turn red, and hit pillows.  None of them has ever done those things to another person (or animal) that I know of, but perhaps they're all just really good at hiding it.

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 8:55:02 PM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Where we live doesn't change the Dynamic, Why would it. Are we to say now you wouldn't be who you were if you lived in say Minnesota, instead of where you do?

You're missing the point.  By living in your parent's home, you have the upper hand over his living situation.  If he got sick of the games you were playing and decided to end the relationship, he would end up on the street.  He wouldn't be the first person to stay in such a situation because they were getting a regular piece of ass and weren't yet at the "holy fuck I need to get away from this" breaking point, and relationships like this rarely end well.

quote:

I believe you're just trying to make snarky potshots with your comments, but I've come to expect snarky potshots from you and the other croonies around here, so I am not phased.

Phased or not, please don't delude yourself into thinking you warrant that much attention or effort.  With the deluge of inane threads you start, if I wanted to take potshots at you, there are far better targets than this. 

~stef


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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 9:08:30 PM   
YourhandMyAss


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Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Well, that is a very good point, One I didn't think of, so yeah I missed the point.

We've been Child parent, since the beginning 3 years ago almost now, So no. As I said before, Our Dynamic doesn't change with the living situations. We were Daddy Child 3 years ago when we first met and decided to have a relationship , and he had his own living arrangements that had nothing to do with living with me.






quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

Where we live doesn't change the Dynamic, Why would it. Are we to say now you wouldn't be who you were if you lived in say Minnesota, instead of where you do?

You're missing the point.  By living in your parent's home, you have the upper hand over his living situation.  If he got sick of the games you were playing and decided to end the relationship, he would end up on the street.  He wouldn't be the first person to stay in such a situation because they were getting a regular piece of ass and weren't yet at the "holy fuck I need to get away from this" breaking point, and relationships like this rarely end well.

quote:

I believe you're just trying to make snarky potshots with your comments, but I've come to expect snarky potshots from you and the other croonies around here, so I am not phased.

Phased or not, please don't delude yourself into thinking you warrant that much attention or effort.  With the deluge of inane threads you start, if I wanted to take potshots at you, there are far better targets than this. 

~stef


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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/1/2009 9:14:29 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

Yet in most cases when a person has a bad temper and it usually leads to yelling/shouting and with saying things which never should be said to another person. For many people, it is a very very fine line that is easy to cross when allowing a bad temper to overwhelm them. What also needs to be made plain and clear is the fact that for some people, when the temper is all encompassing, the line between rational thought is ignored. This in essence is a form of verbal abuse. I find it quite absurd that the concept of verbal abuse is treated in a laissez- faire manner just because there are no bruises or broken bones. There is a huge difference between a couple having an arguement with angry emotions and a couple who cave in to bad tempers and continually degrad, abase and belittle each other. Each situation has to be looked at on it's own merit and the surrounding circumstances to gain a more accurate picture.


Great post, bear.  I can understand passionately raising one's voice, but shouting comes dangerously close to that fine line you speak of, and often times crosses it.  I don't like being with someone who displays this kind of temper.  It seems too out of control to me.  Back in time when I was full of rage, I would shout in anger.  I did so because I lacked the words to express myself.  I lacked the words to express myself because I wasn't self aware enough to understand myself.  Once I worked out some of my bigger internal issues (anger/rage being one of them), communication came more easily to me and I didn't feel the need to shout.  I find shouting to be assaulting, and I don't want to be around it. 


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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/2/2009 5:03:11 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

Yet in most cases when a person has a bad temper and it usually leads to yelling/shouting and with saying things which never should be said to another person. For many people, it is a very very fine line that is easy to cross when allowing a bad temper to overwhelm them. What also needs to be made plain and clear is the fact that for some people, when the temper is all encompassing, the line between rational thought is ignored. This in essence is a form of verbal abuse. I find it quite absurd that the concept of verbal abuse is treated in a laissez- faire manner just because there are no bruises or broken bones. There is a huge difference between a couple having an arguement with angry emotions and a couple who cave in to bad tempers and continually degrad, abase and belittle each other. Each situation has to be looked at on it's own merit and the surrounding circumstances to gain a more accurate picture.


Great post, bear.  I can understand passionately raising one's voice, but shouting comes dangerously close to that fine line you speak of, and often times crosses it.  I don't like being with someone who displays this kind of temper.  It seems too out of control to me.  Back in time when I was full of rage, I would shout in anger.  I did so because I lacked the words to express myself.  I lacked the words to express myself because I wasn't self aware enough to understand myself.  Once I worked out some of my bigger internal issues (anger/rage being one of them), communication came more easily to me and I didn't feel the need to shout.  I find shouting to be assaulting, and I don't want to be around it. 



Being around a man who raises his voice often and loses his temper scares me and causes me to withdraw emotionally, whether or ot he plans to strike me (or the TV) in anger.  Like you, I simply do not want to be around it.  Some women go for that type of behavior, but I am not a lover of the drama.  Everyone loses his/her temper sometimes and that can be dealt with, but habitially, no, I won't be around to witness that.

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RE: bad temper does not always equal abuse - 1/2/2009 5:50:04 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

Of course I had to ice my hand and wrist after that, but still, it was worth it.  I can't even remember what I was pissed at.  But it was great.



When Mr Miyagi finds out you'll be waxing off for a good few months.

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