RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (Full Version)

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corysub -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 4:59:07 AM)

It's obvious to me that most people believe honesty is the best policy in any relationship. I agree that you don't have to detail your life history at a first meeting but both parties in a relationship have ethical responsibility.  Although sex with a new partner should always be "safe", if either party has a STD
it should be made known PRIOR to physical contact. With respect to a TG I would think the same holds true, more so if you think the relationship is
deepening.  All of us hold back some measure of information from people we love and probably the cause of much unhappiness in partnerships or marriages.  You owe it to your partner and to yourself at an early stage to let it all hang out...you might be surprised what he/she has to tell you in turn, and
certainly would take a big load of worry off your shoulders not having to live with the unkown truth of who you once were. 



GreedyTop -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 5:51:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadAxeman

And...ahem...did you pull it off?

Or just tuck it underneath?
[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]



I quickly unbuckled the harness ;)



thishereboi -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 6:22:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

I was watching a program that stated the ONE way a transexual can be identified: a woman's index finger is longer than her ring finger- a male's is not.  (just thought I'd share that)   You are now returned to your regular channel.


Well my ring finger is longer, I guess that means I should really have bits hanging. Go figure.



thishereboi -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 6:27:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

IMO, the assertion that you can tell whether or not a woman is TG based on her adams apple is as much a crock of shit as saying the finger lengths have anything to do with it, or 'a dominant personality' has a longer second toe than the big toe.

I personally have a prominent adams apple.  I've even been asked (!!!!!) to show my groin to PROVE that I'm really a woman based on that.

*sheesh*


OMFG first I'm told I am really male because my fingers don't measure up right and now you tell me I have a dominant personality.

You know a boi can only take so much...where is Lady H....there is nothing better for makin me feel like a good little subbi boi than hanging out with a Goddess.



GreedyTop -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 6:28:23 AM)

aww... c'mere boi *hugs and bewbie squishes*

is that better?



thishereboi -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 6:29:06 AM)

That was awesome....thanks

[sm=alien.gif]



GreedyTop -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 6:31:54 AM)

yay!!



LaTigresse -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 6:58:15 AM)

I'd give ya a boobie squishing hug, but you'd get lost.



kittinSol -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 7:02:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I'd give ya a boobie squishing hug, but you'd get lost.


I wouldn't!

~ Miss Shameless



aravain -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 7:25:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gretademille
I'm asking HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE INTRODUCED TO THE IDEA THAT SOMEONE YOU ARE DATING AND/OR INTERESTED IN IS A TG WOMAN. So that it's non-threatening or makes you feel like a fool.


Still in the middle of reading this thread from the beginning... but my answer is this:

I WANT TO KNOW BEFORE WE'RE DATING (oops, sorry, caps-lock is cruise control for cool sometimes, but not now). In my case it would be a TG Man, or an FTM who has not started transitioning... but in *either* case... I better damned well know *before* we're dating, and *before* I'm interested in them that they're TG. Otherwise I *will* feel like a fool, I *will* feel deceived, I *will* feel violent (if it's in an intimate scenario when I'm told).

I'm intergendered myself, and it's *hell* but I wouldn't ever consider myself entitled to not let someone know what sort of zingers they're gonna get in the trail mix! For me it's on the same level as my mental 'illness' in importance for people knowing before they get hooked... I don't wanna hurt people because of being who I am, which IS what happens when secrets are kept. If you're interested in (as Merc or Beth suggested) giving someone a pretty thorough mindfuck, go ahead and let them get attached first before telling them. I bet you'll just *love* the reactions most men will give (that was my sarcastic voice).

There's a difference between casual dating and dating in hopes of building a relationship. In the former, I don't necessarily need to know... because the 'date' is meant just to meet someone. In the latter... it better be a topic of discussion ON the first date, if it wasn't before. I want to know what sort of issues I might be getting into, and I want that other person to know the same... 'cause like I said, I'm very anti-angst-causing when I can affect whether or not it's caused.

As other people have suggested... *IT'S TIME FOR A NEW THERAPIST*. Any therapist that suggests that the feelings and emotions of their patient is MORE important than everyone around them is setting you up to need a lifetime of therapy (hopefully by themselves, probably). In the case that they're not articulate enough to explain themselves (as I think/hope is the case, here) when they say 'date' (and actually mean casual, non-relationship-based 'get-togethers' more than the usual connotations) then you need to get out and find someone who is so that you don't have to worry about misinturpretting them. Specificity is extremely important.

I wasn't going to respond to anything in this thread until after I read it all, but I had to take a break to share my opinion so-far. What you're suggesting (only on page 3, keep in mind) is disgusting, to me. Completely and utterly disgusting.

EDIT: Nothing new to add... 'cept, geeze... I bettter buy a frock and hat! My index fingers are longer (left) and flat even (right) with my ring fingers. Guess it proves who I am? I agree with others, this is a silly theory that is a complete non-truth



LaTigresse -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 7:34:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I'd give ya a boobie squishing hug, but you'd get lost.


I wouldn't!

~ Miss Shameless


Thank you! That put a smile on my face. Endless boobie squishing hugs are always here for you Kittin.



GreedyTop -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 8:09:17 AM)

*asks to be allowed into the LaT bewbie squishes*



samboct -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 8:28:20 AM)

There are times when I really wonder about how "open minded" people are on this site....

I'm a guy- straight so far and in my late 40s.  If I found a person attractive and found their company pleasant, I'm not sure how much of a distraction being TG or whatever would be.  Seems to me we should be able to respect the choices people make with their lives and ordering them when to reveal personal information is our attempt to control them. 

Quickie suggestion-

1) Look for guys (gals?) who like science fiction and enjoy reading John Varley.  He's a great writer and has dealt with the themes of TG acceptance in society very well IMHO.  (People in the TG community may differ- I just think the guy can write and makes you think about some of these issues.)

2)  Identify who's problem it is involving your sexual identity.  If you're confident that you've made the right choice and dealt with people using good judgment balancing honesty with your own privacy- then you've done nothing wrong- and being confident about that will put the other person on the defensive concerning his/her prejudices.  But being tentative and apologetic if you've doing nothing wrong will help reinforce the other person's prejudice.  There is a line between protecting your privacy and an attempt to deliberately deceive.

Longer answer

I guess I'm old fashioned.  My idea of going on a date is to figure out if you'd like to jump into bed with that person and vice versa.  I must admit, I still kind of use the three dates rule- if you go out with a girl for three dates, then odds are you should have gotten a sense where things are going.  Buying a woman dinner entitles me to nothing more than to broach the idea of sex/romance, however, I will admit to getting aggravated when I was younger when after picking up the tab on an expensive meal and then I got the "But we're just friends..." speech.  Taking somebody out to dinner and then being informed that romance never crossed their mind I find deceptive and manipulative- but it happens all the time and is thus accepted social intercourse.

From my own perspective- STDs are much more of a concern than TG.  If I've asked somebody to go grab a cup of coffee- I have no need to know whether or not they have AIDS, but I would like to know that before disrobing.  If somebody were TG, I think I'd like to know that if physical attraction were about to progress to more than a peck on the cheek- but I don't think I need to know sooner.  People have a right to privacy.  I guess this is a long winded way of saying that I agree with your shrink.

I'm also not sure how much less acceptance you'd have in the "vanilla" world than here.  I know of a person (we've only corresponded online) that runs a model airplane kitting business.  This is a hobby that cuts a broad swath across socio economic groups and is heavily, heavily male dominated.  When he started his business, I knew him as Kurt.  She recently requested that I call her Kay.  (The language does not deal with these transitions well.)  I asked her if she'd caught any flak for this change and she responded that perhaps surprisingly, most of her customers were quite accepting.  So I wonder how much basis in fact is the assumption that there would be violence if your previous sexual identity becomes revealed?  Is this based on movies, "everybody knows this", or are there some good statistical data?  

It's also possible that there may be some unresolved suicidal issues present for some folks in the TG community.  In other words- could TG people be seeking out prejudiced people for self destructive purposes?  Because I'm not sure how many men would react violently to being informed that a person was TG.  In my circle of friends- I kind of doubt it.  But I also don't doubt that you could find men that would be angry at the realization that they'd found someone with a penis attractive.

Regards,

Sam



aravain -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 9:14:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
So I wonder how much basis in fact is the assumption that there would be violence if your previous sexual identity becomes revealed?  Is this based on movies, "everybody knows this", or are there some good statistical data?


I base my 'assumption' on personal experience, and the actual experience of talking to and seeing anti-TG violence. You don't even need to be dating some of these sickos to be fair game for their abuse and violence. Of course, I base the 'assumption' that gay men are subject to violence simply for being themselves and being open about it on personal experience as well as media coverage and such, too... though I *have* heard the same argument ("That doesn't really happen, there's no real definitive statistical data, etc.etc.etc.") for that as well. If a person has enough prejudice to be violent about something, then it *will* happen.

If someone is generally a violent-when-angry person (like myself) then they're liable to get violent when they found out that they've been lied to (as I would be, though I would usually have a cool enough head to remove myself from any situation involving the offender).

quote:

In other words- could TG people be seeking out prejudiced people for self destructive purposes? 


*blink* What? That's like saying that some women seek out men who beat them because they're self-destructive, or gay men seek out prejudiced men because they're self destructive. Typically you don't 'seek out' someone who is going to harm you on purpose... even with self-destructive tendencies.

As a gay man I don't attempt to like, crush, or any other word, straight men (especially when I know that they would/could turn violent if they knew, or that it could change the entire dynamic between us, if there is one)... however, it happens. I can't help it.

Likewise, as someone with self-destructive tendencies I don't attempt to like, crush, or any other word, someone whose intent (whether passive or active) is to permanently harm me, or who does it regardless of a lack of intent (of course, my track record so far is not, uh, promising in this area).

And as a TG person (though, admittedly I'm different from most mainstream in that I don't intend on having gender reassignment surgery or therapy since I technically identify as BOTH genders and sometimes neither) I do not attempt to like, crush, or any other word men who would not understand, or be supporting. Unfortunately I can't control other people (the mind-control device is on the fritz, lately) so I often have no control over this aspect at all...

It's a slippery slope, like suggesting that women who are raped 'asked for it' by wearing provacative clothing.



Termyn8or -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 9:37:01 AM)

First of all, find a guy, who at least considered going bi. But there is more. This is a total jumpthrough but something occurred to me.

I don't see two prospects meeting without knowing "what" each other is. Contact via email, phone, text and all this and you left that out ? Talked about fishing with your Dad but failed to mention it was a Father and son ?

This is why I broke in here, in the past I knew people who, unenlightened would beat the shit out of you if they were "fooled" this way. It would be a nasty scene to say the least. 

It wouldn't even have to go that far maybe. You have no idea what their notions are about something like this. For example, what if they had sex with you, you told them and then they started throwing up and freaking out ? How's that for aftercare ?

Honesty up front can prevent all this. If they can accept it fine, if not, park it back on the lot and test drive another one, so to speak.

This is definitely something to be upfront about.

T



samboct -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 9:44:27 AM)

"*blink* What? That's like saying that some women seek out men who beat them because they're self-destructive, or gay men seek out prejudiced men because they're self destructive. Typically you don't 'seek out' someone who is going to harm you on purpose... even with self-destructive tendencies. "

Possible misunderstanding here-

1)  People engage in self destructive behavior.  Examples: smoking, excessive drinking, drug addiction, gambling etc.  Some relationships fall into this category as well.
2)  Once in an abusive relationship- people often find it difficult to leave.

Query-

1)  Are people in abusive relationships likely to seek out subsequent abusive relationships or is being in an abusive relationship roll of the dice?
2)  Do TG people show any differences from the rest of the population with regards to percentage of abusive relationships or subsequent abusive relationships?

I don't know the answers here, and I don't know if anyone does. (The reference about a woman asking to get raped is an oversimplification and a loaded question.) But its been my experience that there are at least two types of prejudice in the world-

1)  Non-selective prejudice.  Example- racial prejudice.  Nobody asks to be black, white or some other color combination.  Discrimination based on skin color seems to be pretty common in most human societies.  I'm not sure we're very different from monkeys in this regard since if you paint a stripe down the back of a monkey and throw it in a cage with unstriped monkeys, it may get ripped apart.
2)  Selective prejudice.  Example- anti semitism.  Singling out a group based on their behavior which in some cases is provocative.  I'm not saying that the provocation justifies prejudicial behavior- merely that it helps explain a targeting process.

In terms of dealing with prejudicial violence, this is certainly not limited to sexual orientation and I expect that there will be a common framework that deals with this phenomenon.  By claiming that prejudicial violence is a unique phenomemon restricted to the gay/TG world, there is an enormous body of knowledge which bears upon this topic that will be disregarded. 

Summary- for dealing with prejudice- the actions of how other people  dealt with similar behavior may be very instructive.
]
Sam



aravain -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 9:49:29 AM)

I wasn't trying to claim that, but supporting my standpoint using personal experience (since I've only once suffered racial discrimination and it wasn't violent I have not personal experience there) which amounts to me: as a gay man, and a TG person.



thishereboi -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 9:49:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I'd give ya a boobie squishing hug, but you'd get lost.


That's ok, I will take my chances. If I am going to get lost, what better place than boobies.



Termyn8or -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 10:27:52 AM)

Rule, if that was meant for me, I take it in stride. I said I did not read it, that's what I meant by a jumpthrough. Just something occurred to me, that I have heard of alot of trouble starting over shit like this.

I'm not saying alot of times, but the wrong guy at the wrong time ............

T



Maya2001 -> RE: Telling a date you're a TG woman (1/5/2009 8:32:49 PM)

I have not met a man yet that rejected me because I was raped in the past....but I know many straight men that would be horrified at the thought of being fooled into dating a female that was born a male.. to them even giving a peck on the check at the end of a date would feel to them to be a homosexual  act and would become a traumatic event for them, and they would be quite angry over being deceived........ you may not see the harm in being bisexual ...on this site I have ran into a couple males  that did get deceived  which has now made them very paranoid...so much so that not even pictures  is not enough proof of gender they want to see if you have the right gentalia  on cam before meeting or continuing to get to know someone which means their searching for a partner is pretty much nil...there are a lot of straight men even in the kink community that cannot kiss their own girlfriend on their mouth after the girlfriend gave them a blowjob because they can't handle the idea of male semen in their mouth ..so if you think these guys would become accepting of you if given time to get to know you first ..you would be very much wrong...and to many in the kink community deception is the equivalent of lying and an automatic end of any relationship



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