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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 12:31:18 AM   
GimpinDenial


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http://tinyurl.com/723avr
psst....try the meriam-websters link


< Message edited by GimpinDenial -- 1/7/2009 12:32:02 AM >


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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 12:38:08 AM   
TigerNINTails


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It means stringently dedicated. Laymans terminology... Lookin up a proper definition...

From Merriam-Webster Dictionary online:

Pronunciation:
  \ˈsti-k(ə-)lər\
Function:
  noun
Date:
  1644

1 : one who insists on exactness or completeness in the observance of something <a stickler for the rules>

2 : something that baffles or puzzles : poser , sticker

So in the context of the subject, I would be a stickler for the protocols and rituals associated with M/s relationships.

[Edited to add: Damn it Gimp! Beat me to it, lol.


< Message edited by TigerNINTails -- 1/7/2009 12:39:36 AM >


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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 12:42:20 AM   
GimpinDenial


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*shrugs*

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 12:48:02 AM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GimpinDenial

http://tinyurl.com/723avr
psst....try the meriam-websters link




thank you....I tried websters..but it gave me a blank page somehow.

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 12:48:51 AM   
GimpinDenial


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try it again....

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 12:50:35 AM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GimpinDenial

try it again....


no need to..it was posted here ;)

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 12:54:53 AM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

"I have a feeling that most of us are in relationships with dominants who are more laid back about the whole M/s dynamic, and the dominants who are sticklers for daily dominance displays are more the rarity."


daily dominance sticklers....are just doing the same..24/7 as the other D's...just their way.
I personally think we all a bit of both.
The good thing about relations is..every one can do it as they please...without beeing a problem to others.

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 1:26:51 AM   
TigerNINTails


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Heh

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 3:57:52 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I read this comment in another thread and it struck me as interesting.  I am honestly not sure what to answer on this.  Maybe because I don't interact with other couples relationships so.. I have not frame of referrence except my own relationship which hardly make it right or wrong... but If I had to take a guess... I don't think it is as rare as one might think.  I believe that we often take things for granted of what is already there and that we have all sort of examples in our daily life but they are just normal for the relationship.


So what are your thoughts of the following comment

"I have a feeling that most of us are in relationships with dominants who are more laid back about the whole M/s dynamic, and the dominants who are sticklers for daily dominance displays are more the rarity."



I think certain things become more a matter of routine after a period of time. It really doesn't depend on the type of relationship.

Take an employer/employee relationship for example. When an employee first begins a new job, all of the activities and routine are new and uncomfortable. It's a training period. Then, at a certain point (one would hope) the employee understands what is expected of them and does it without as much supervision or possibly, even active thought of their own. They just know what they need to do, when and how. Occasionally something new gets tossed into the mix but most times there is some sort of structure and routine none the less. Most relationships are the same.

None of that familiarity means that the employer is no longer the employer or that the employee is no longer the employee. It simply means that they each know the routine.

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 5:06:10 AM   
rabinyaZharovna


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I think it is rare. I think what is more common is the downhill slide. I read on here alot about how Dominance doesn't have to be overt and how those feelings are always there etc. I understand this, but for me, I need the overt to keep me in place. It's been referrenced here recently that many acts become common place to us and this is certainly true for me, but that is exactly why overt things are important for me. For example, my Master requires his laundry be folded a particular way... a way that is absolutely different than I'd ever done. In the beginning it took alot of thought and learning on my part and it took him being a stickler for me to really get it done right... new and fresh etc. Fast forward to now, do I even think about how I fold his laundry or that I do it according to his specifics? Nope... I just do the laundry... it has become engrained. Pile a few of these items up.. laundry, how I cook dinner, how I put things away etc... there are countless acts a day that I do without recognizing that I even do them. With that recognition sliding away, my sense of enslavement also slides. If I have to concentrate on those things in order to feel enslaved, well then I start feeling like I am really enslaving myself.  Let's face it, lots of women in "regular vanilla" relationships do those things for their husbands so what exactly is setting this relationship apart from those? I start feeling more like a somewhat submissive wife with a kinky sex life than a slave who worhsips her Master.

Enter the overt acts: Having to always crawl in the bedroom, or always be naked with cuffs when doing chores, or any of those types of acts make it impossible for me to mistake this relationship for a vanilla one. These acts never become mundane or ordinary to me. I don't have to focus on them or remind myself that I do them or anything else. They are the tangible everyday things that cement my slavery in my mind. It takes work on his part, it takes making certain he doesn't become complacent or lazy. It takes thought and effort. Laid back doesn't work for me, stickler, strong, on my ass, is what evokes my worship. My sense of enslavement is reactionary and is directly proportional to what he is actively pulling from within me. So if I have to focus myself on my sense of enslavement, well then I'm not really going to feel enslaved.

I spoke with enough men and tried on enough relationships to realize that most men get a bit... complacent about it all. I have enough friends who are submissives and slaves that are continuously struggling with that downhill slide to think otherwise. What I have seen is alot of Dominants/Masters who don't understand that enslavement is not a set state of being, but rather one that has to be constantly evoked. The same is true of a deep sense of submission... atleast in my experience. The D side of the coin recognizing the importance of making certain it never feels simply ordinary and putting forth the great effort it requires to make certain there isn't a downhill slide, in my experience, is very rare.

Of course this is all based on my inner workings and I have zero experience with women who are on the D side (So that may all be quite different) and countless people may write this off as all wrong and I'm pretty okay with that :) Just my two cents on it... feel free to chuck them out the window!
rz{PF}

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 5:09:36 AM   
colouredin


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I think it probably is true actually KoM which is why for me most of my relationships fail pretty quickly. The only one that really affected me was one where there was an almost constant reminder of my position inforced by ritual etc which was amazing but generally I have found that people I have been with 'turn it on and off' too much effort all the time (unless they want the washing up done then the assumption is that despite my havign no clue where I am I will revel in doing it)

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 5:30:50 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
"I have a feeling that most of us are in relationships with dominants who are more laid back about the whole M/s dynamic, and the dominants who are sticklers for daily dominance displays are more the rarity."



I disagree.  I believe that dominants that are consistant are more the rarity.
 
the.dark.

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 6:05:06 AM   
DesFIP


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I think most dominants have a certain list of things which are important to them. And that once the sub does these things as habit, then the dominant is pretty laid back about the stuff that doesn't matter. Because if the dom needs to keep instituting rules just to show that he's in charge, then he's stuck following these rules also and paying attention to them instead of falling asleep watching tv after a long day which he might prefer.

I can't imagine anyone keeps finding other hoops for the sub to jump through, without realizing very quickly that doing so means he has to stand there holding the hoop, to stretch a metaphor.

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 7:39:35 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I think most dominants have a certain list of things which are important to them. And that once the sub does these things as habit, then the dominant is pretty laid back about the stuff that doesn't matter. Because if the dom needs to keep instituting rules just to show that he's in charge, then he's stuck following these rules also and paying attention to them instead of falling asleep watching tv after a long day which he might prefer.

I can't imagine anyone keeps finding other hoops for the sub to jump through, without realizing very quickly that doing so means he has to stand there holding the hoop, to stretch a metaphor.


That is where my head was going with it also.

IF, the dominant has to keep performing their dominance to keep the submissive performing, then who is really the one running the show?


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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 8:12:20 AM   
IronBear


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

"I have a feeling that most of us are in relationships with dominants who are more laid back about the whole M/s dynamic, and the dominants who are sticklers for daily dominance displays are more the rarity."



Based only on my own observations with those involved with M/s dynamics, including my many Gorean Lifestyle friends, I am inclined to agree with this statement My reasoning is simple. In most cases I know and including Bruin Cottage, overt displays of dominance such as demands for things to be done etc, often filter down to comments like "I could use a hot coffee sometime soon", with the knowledge and expectation that it will be picked up, acted upon and required coffee will arrive promptly. This is a sign of excellent training and yet it allows the slave/servant to finish a task being worked on if it is almost done (such as finishing preparing food or cleaning the dunny). Most of my friends I refer to do as I do, use hand signs such as I'll point two stiffened fingers together if I want a girl to attend me, two stiffened fingers separated indicates that she will come to me and assume the Nadu positioning these two examples the dominance command is covert rather than overt and both ate laid back. This does depend on the circumstances and if we are in high or low protocol mode.

I have the view that those Masters and Mistresses who feel the need to use daily Displays of Dominance are possibly unsure of their own Dominance and need to use such displays to reassure themselves, and to show others who is in-charge of the slave.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 1/7/2009 8:13:13 AM >


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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 8:47:54 AM   
agirl


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I couldn't possibly say whether it's a rarity or not as I only tend to read about other people's relationships rather than experience them. Although my sister is also in a D/s relationship it's vastly different to mine and I find it difficult to draw any parallels there.

I'm also not quite certain what 'displays of dominance' refers to. BEING dominant in the relationship IS displaying it, where I'm concerned.

If it's referring to specific actions then I'm sure that for each and every relationship those are going to differ hugely.

As many people have said above, much of the seemingly ritualistic/protocol type behaviour becomes rather normal after a time. It slips into *how things are* without it being a constantly conscious thing.

M DOES need to be dominant for the relationship AS A D/s one, to work. Just as being a parent needs me to do more than just *be it* in name, for it to work. It's not a lot of use me sprouting my parenty wings only once in a while because they are pissing me off. I have to keep on doing what is required for me to be the one in charge. (and no, I don't manage it the whole time and I know what the cost is, when I don't)

It is MORE than daily , in fact it's moment by moment...it's not necessarily an overt expression but it has to BE there, as Dark said......consistantly.

For me to have an opinion on whether it's rare or not would mean I'd have to have some kind of knowledge that I don't possess, in all honesty.

agirl










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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 8:58:01 AM   
BRNaughtyAngel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Edited to add:  Having come across the sentence in its context, I think I understand more what the author meant.  The opinion is that it seems most (?) dominants do not place a lot of emphasis on daily behaviors and activities that help a submissive feel and live his/her place, and that doing so would be helpful, at least for some.  In many cases, it seems left up to the submissive to maintain his/her head space, and many struggle as a result.  I now read the quote to mean that many (most?) dominants are either unaware of how they could help with this struggle, or simply do not have the desire to work with their submissives this way.  Perhaps the author of the quote will clarify. 



As I am the author of the original quote, I will say that NV got what I meant with her statement above....., as did a couple of others when they spoke of expectations becoming routine.

An example I hope makes sense......
There was a thread on one of the groups on Fetlife a couple of weeks back, asking submissives if they preferred knowing what needed to be done and just doing it, or if they preferred receiving commands/orders/requests for things to be done. 

There were responses for both choices, and some who said they enjoyed both.  My response was that knowing what needs to be done and just doing helps to feed my service-oriented soul.  Being commanded/ordered/requested to do something ignites a fire within me and feeds my submissive soul.

I know dominants don't want to have to order their submissives around 24/7...... good grief that would be tiring!!  But as NV posted above, when a level of comfort and routine sets in to the relationship, and add in the day to day struggles of life, it can be difficult for a submissive to maintain their headspace.  Sometimes it's referred to as "needing our leash yanked". 

I'll post more later, but gotta run for now.  I hope this made sense - been a stressful morning around here!

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 9:04:43 AM   
LaTigresse


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BRN, that does make more sense. Rather like a "I love you" of sorts. While we KNOW that the special people in our lives do love us, we like to hear it on occasion. It give us that little "warm fuzzy". 

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 9:10:32 AM   
JustDarkness


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Ah now I know at least what the thread is about. ( I didn't get the quote itself completely)
Good point to remember. Keep the relation alive..work for it..
In daily life you might forget easily about such.

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RE: is it a rarity - 1/7/2009 10:55:20 AM   
MadRabbit


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I would say I am more or less layed back regarding the dynamic as a whole, because more or less, I want a generally normal relationship where both people can just simply be themselves. I don't stress or put any demands on constant 24/7 stereotypical slave behavior. I have some protocols and expectations that are extraordinary.

As far as daily displays of dominance, I don't nor ever really feel the need to go out of my way to display my dominance. I just want to be me and given that, by self awareness and understanding of what I am and how I behave, I am dominant that should be more than enough (It has been for most of the girls I've dated).

As long as I get what I want and what I decide is adhered to, then I'm cool. That central axiom is what I am strict on, because if that axiom isn't there, then I don't have the kind of relationship that makes me happy.

I'm not a hard man to please.

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