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ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re

CD,
We may be arguing the same side of the coin, hard to tell since you are defending others, not your own viewpoint.

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Who determines dominance?  The Sub.  No question.  If they don't submit, then you aren't dominant (to them, that isn't a statement about your personality).  If they become bitchy and intractable, you have not been effective in your control.  Perhaps they are uncontrolable, but you (the dom) are still the one who failed.

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You were unable to draw from them what you wished.  You may reassert yourself and regain control, but something may still be lost.

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And although you (and I mean you) may be laid back and can still maintain control, if you read the vast majority of posting from the sub/slave side, "laid back" basically is code for "my Master/Dom is too lazy to put in the work required to maintain this relationship on the basis that it was laid."

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ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

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ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

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Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose.

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ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

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ORIGINAL: Ph0enixF1re

And before you  accuse me of being arrogant and judgmental....Let me just say "Guilty."  I AM better than you.

Wow.  Arrogant and judgmental were not the words that came to mind, actually.

Actually the one that struck a nerve with me was this one by CD,

Oh wait...that's right...they, like anyone else on here can answer any post they choose.

But the above one as well.

Holier-than-thou attitude with the additional arrogance by another of like mind.

I doubt CD will appreciate being cast with that particular aspersion...

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ORIGINAL: rabinyaZharovna

If all it takes is a woman loving a man to want to serve him endlessly, then why would she be seeking out this relationship? She could fall in love with any vanilla guy and serve him all day. If she could keep herself in a submissive mindset all the time then why does she need you? What makes her crave, seek and need a Dominant in her life? And what are you doing to to ensure that you (general sense) are the Dominant she aches to serve? There are very few women who are in this just for the kinky sex. Women on here say it again and again... just because you are Dominant doesn't mean you are my Dominant. Just because you are Dominant doesn't mean I'm submissive to you. It isn't about just being a Dominant personality, it's about Dominating her... continuously. Pushing those buttons within her... continuously. Settling back and saying all is well, I have her trained and now she will serve me out of love is, well, a misguided, unfortunate, popular belief. A belief that I think is the core reason for so many relationships failing. Obviously differnt people need different levels of this interaction, but what are you doing to ensure that level, whatever it may be, is being continuously met? When I see "laid back" I see "I set the ground rules, you obey because you want to and all is well."  Hmmm okay, maybe that is why past relationships are just that... past, not current. You, as the Dominant, are the leader of the relationship, so where are you leading it? What are you actively, consciously doing to bring out the best in her and the relationship? Because that is what she signed up for and that is when you get a sub or a slave who will do everything in the world to make your life wonderful. The rarity, in my experience, is the Dominant who understands that he is the driver of the entire relationship, who goes against the natural grain of complacency, and acts with the incredible conscious effort it requires to keep the bus moving forward. 
rz{PF}

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ORIGINAL: colouredin

I read that you were trying to tell Ph0enixF1re that actually anyone can post anywhere in your ususally quirky way

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ORIGINAL: rabinyaZharovna

*Disclaimer here... I say men and women because for one it's what I have experience with and secondly, because I believe that men and women tend to operate on a fundementally different level I suspect that a relationship with a woman at the helm may be quite different, but if it applies in the reverse.. that's cool too* And yeah it's a bit long, grab a coke:)


I have had relationships come and go. I have had numerous conversations with women who were struggling. I have seen countless posts about relationships falling apart. I have heard lots of people reference numerous past Masters or past slaves and have wondered at what the heart of the matter truly was. I have held the belief that people are fundementally lazy. I have held the belief, or rather been mystifued by the fact that it seems most people get into a relationhip and in the beginning they think this is the most wonderful person ever only to, months or years later, have almost no respect for the same person. I have marvelled at how it seems that more often than not, that instead of a relationship bringing out the very best in a person, it brings out the worse. Instead of becoming more of a doer, a succeeder, more physically fit, more mentally and emotionally healthy, more loving and kind and generous.... people become lazier... mentally, emotionally... fatter physically. They don't start going to the gym.. they stop. They don't start volunteering at an organization, they stop etc... Surely we all know what I'm talking about. I have always thought that a relationship should bring out the very best in a person, it should inspire them to new heights and I have been struck by the fact that the opposite is what seems to be true.

So here's is what I've discerned from my meanderring thoughts. People look to settle in. People have the idea of "Happily ever after" in their heads. I think that men have an amazing ability to drift into autopilot. The result is that they start off in the Master/Dominant role with the idea of.. I will make her mine and then we will settle into our routine and all will go swimmingly. Women start off thinking omg! He's so Dominant/Masterful he pushes all my buttons.. fiiiinalllly. So the relationship goes along with the man settling into the routine and the woman slowly feeling less and less dominated... yet she can't quite figure out why. She tries to talk about it, but she is all flumaxed because she doesn't want to hurt him, she doesn't want to seem disrespectful, she feels guilty because after all this is what she wanted... isn't it? And she let's it slide long enough that she can't even quite articulate the issue. She tries and often times is met with.... you are topping from the bottom, or what are you talking about... you have all sorts of things you do for me daily.. or my favorite.... real life intrudes. Huh, see I thought that this was real life. I thought this was what I was signing up for. I thought this was the foundation of our relationship, not something that got squeezed in when there was time for it. Only articulating that is somehow really hard to communicate because when she tries to say that she is met with... you have unreasonable expectations... so now she's confused and he's confused and no one really knows why. It happens in vanilla one's as well. Man starts off wooing woman, marrys woman, reclines on sofa because all is well, meanwhile she is wonderring why they don't ever go out anymore.

If all it takes is a woman loving a man to want to serve him endlessly, then why would she be seeking out this relationship? She could fall in love with any vanilla guy and serve him all day. If she could keep herself in a submissive mindset all the time then why does she need you? What makes her crave, seek and need a Dominant in her life? And what are you doing to to ensure that you (general sense) are the Dominant she aches to serve? There are very few women who are in this just for the kinky sex. Women on here say it again and again... just because you are Dominant doesn't mean you are my Dominant. Just because you are Dominant doesn't mean I'm submissive to you. It isn't about just being a Dominant personality, it's about Dominating her... continuously. Pushing those buttons within her... continuously. Settling back and saying all is well, I have her trained and now she will serve me out of love is, well, a misguided, unfortunate, popular belief. A belief that I think is the core reason for so many relationships failing. Obviously differnt people need different levels of this interaction, but what are you doing to ensure that level, whatever it may be, is being continuously met? When I see "laid back" I see "I set the ground rules, you obey because you want to and all is well."  Hmmm okay, maybe that is why past relationships are just that... past, not current. You, as the Dominant, are the leader of the relationship, so where are you leading it? What are you actively, consciously doing to bring out the best in her and the relationship? Because that is what she signed up for and that is when you get a sub or a slave who will do everything in the world to make your life wonderful. The rarity, in my experience, is the Dominant who understands that he is the driver of the entire relationship, who goes against the natural grain of complacency, and acts with the incredible conscious effort it requires to keep the bus moving forward. 
rz{PF}

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ORIGINAL: rabinyaZharovna

The rarity, in my experience, is the Dominant who understands that he is the driver of the entire relationship, who goes against the natural grain of complacency, and acts with the incredible conscious effort it requires to keep the bus moving forward. 
rz{PF}

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists



I personally found the post to be more damaging to relationships and very destructive to building successful long-term dynamics. 

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  When any individual in the dynamic stops giving to the relationship it is on path of doom! 

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You can't dance with someone if they choose not to dance.. who is leading is irrelevant to that.  Successful relationships are those that have individuals that are making the conscious decision to dance to the music that they all enjoy!

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

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ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

I personally found the post to be more damaging to relationships and very destructive to building successful long-term dynamics. 

 I'm not seeing what you're seeing here. I read the post in the context of OP and in that context, I thought it was spot on. I didn't see it as laying blame, but rather addressing the issue raised by the original question. There is a flip side, of course .. if the dominant wants to do the tango and the submissive thinks that the salsa is the way to go and insists the tempo changes, then yes, I could see such a thing being a problem with the compatibility of the relationship but if the slave agreed to do the tango and master refused to put on the music and dance, (which is what I gathered from the OP) then how is a post which address that going to damage someone?  

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  When any individual in the dynamic stops giving to the relationship it is on path of doom! 

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You can't dance with someone if they choose not to dance.. who is leading is irrelevant to that.  Successful relationships are those that have individuals that are making the conscious decision to dance to the music that they all enjoy!

 I understand what you're saying here, but I don't always enjoy the dance he chooses .. but I dance anyway because who leads is relevant to me .. and I agreed that he would lead, even when he has two left feet and the music is out of tune. He likes tango, I like tango, sometimes we dance the tango. He likes salsa, I like salsa, sometimes we dance salsa. I like ballroom.. he HATES ballroom so we will never dance ballroom. If I lead, then we absolutely would dance ballroom sometime or another. Since he leads, we don't. He likes disco, I hate disco.. sometimes we dance disco.. that's why, to me, it's relevant. Not everything about our dynamic is about 'us' .. mostly it is.. but not always. Sometimes, it's just about him so hullo Donna Summer!  (She's disco, right? lol)

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Disco?!?!?! A hard limit!

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

I think I do see what he is saying.  The post seems to state that not only is the dominant responsible for driving the relationship but at a rate and along a course chosen by the submissive...lead me where I want you to lead me and in the way I want you to do so. 

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As Knight said...as I've said...as many have said...you can lead and you can be doing a good job of leading and if the submissive decides she does not like that path, or does not wish to respond at that time or the moon is in the wrong phase and so, she will not submit, why is that a problem with compatibility or with his dominance? 

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While compatibility may be an issue and therefore should have been broached before this point is reached, is it not possible sometimes for the problem to lay not with his dominance or their compatibility but rather her failure to pick up her share of driving from the submissive side?

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 It does change the parameters of the OP but does it change the parameters of the evolved discussion?

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But...is he leading the dance and choosing which dance and, the point seemingly being addressed throughout this thread---when and how often to dance--- according to your wants and needs ALWAYS or is he addressing those wants and needs in a mixture of what he sees fit and what he has learned is a level that works for you and for the dynamic as a whole?

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but in the vast majority of failed relationships, it is the dominant that lost control, lost focus, or simply lost patience. Both parties bear some culpablility, but the majority share of responsibility goes to the Dominant.