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RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 1:40:10 AM

GreedyTop

Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline

quote:

I have come across a couple of relationships where the sub has been totally dependent on the Dom with no outside support or means and in both of these cases the relationships appeared more abusive than D/s.

Thats what I've always 'seen' in those types of relationships... but, hey, thats what some people get off on.

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 21

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 2:31:25 AM

KadreRose

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/8/2008
Status: offline

For me I have to be independent and make healthy choices. I have just come out of a very long marriage where my partner was dominant in all the negative ways and oblivious to me or my needs. The relationship was totally vanilla he was just an oger. I have come to realize my submissive nature and am trying to move forward with myself and learn to have healthy relationships. My submissive nature can make it hard not to give too much too quick. I am learning it takes time to really know someone and get past the bliss stage to where you can make a healthy judgement of anothers character. For me I do not choose to submit to just anyone, I want their to be a connection on all levels, mental, spiritual and physical. I am also finding that what to me is just pure selfishness can be presented as being Dom and I don't want to go down that road again.

If a friend were to come to me and tell me she desired to be a slave/sub and totally dependant my advise to her would be: Please stash back at least a months worth living expense money somewhere, even in the best of relationships life has a way of sending some curves and self preservation is necessarry. I would suggest she must care about herself to have something worthy to offer. I personally think even in vanilla relationships women should have this back up.

I have had a few lines written floating around in my mind lately:

I will not be in a relationship I deem to be unhealthy for me, I will not give to someone I do not feel has earned my respect and is worthy of my gift, I will not be in a relationship where my needs are not met.
(I thought that sounded very negative so I changed it to the positive.)
I will be in relationships I deem to be healthy for me, I will give to someone I feel has earned my respect and is worthy of my gift, I will be in relationships that meet my needs and are reciprocal.
ENTITLEMENT IS BULLSHIT - Respect is real.
Courtesy can be given, fear can be imposed, respect is earned . . . aquired over time.
How you treat others is a reflection of your character, not theirs.

Take what you like and leave the rest. Blessings. ~kr~

(in reply to GreedyTop)

Post #: 22

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 3:12:36 AM

Rayne749

Posts: 9
Joined: 10/25/2008
Status: offline

Hi everyone, new poster..but been watching for a while now..

I think my biggest problem with being independent is the psychological side of it. I can absolutely adore, love and strive to obey my Dom, but if I'm upset over something he has done I'm not going to accept his first answer on why/how it happened if that answer doesn't make it clear to me. I think I have a right to protect my emotional well-being like that, but others tend to take it as though I'm not trusting my Dom (and him at the time), and undermining him because I might end up asking a thousand different ways until i get it. I am always respectful though, and explain why I'm still asking so it's not like I'm just getting cranky and having a go.

But it's just not the case that doing that makes one less of a sub. To me I think it would make a better sub (yeh I suppose i'm biased being one), as I know I do it from a place that wants to preserve the relationship, rather than scar it and me. I have an independant part of my life, and obviously when it's needed an independant way of thinking, but behind it I'm still a submissive.

But people will be people and take things in different ways, hence the search continues..

xx

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 23

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 4:21:28 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Well in order to be in a relationship as a slave, yes I think you need to be dependent and reliant upon the expectations of being in that relationship. But then so does the master.

I think it's obvious that a slave CAN BE independent and self reliant and still be a great slave. Unfortunately, the kink world refuses to let go of its myth that personality = orientation and thus the more stereotypical sub personality a person has, the more sub orientation they claim or are perceived to be.

From My view, LA is bang on here--what I'd like to restate--is the relationship---(for a submissive without a Dominant is just another person on the bus)--- I think the issue arises when its in the context of a relationship and as she mentioned, the stereotypical EXPECTATIONS. When building that relationship, this is an area that needs to be discussed more than anything else--what are the expectations of the submissive, what does the submissive expect to "give up or maintain, or keep" and what are the expectations of the Dominant in regards to those things. Once a person becomes a submissive, it does not mean they necessarily become nonthinking robots unless that is agreed upon as the relationship dynamic.

For many subs, to give up their self reliance, is a hard limit-- does that make them less a sub? For the right Dominant, who wants those qualities---no.

I say like LA we have to stop assuming that personality=orientation--or better yet the ability to effectively BE that orientation.

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 24

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 4:55:02 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

Some recent comments got me wondering what others think. Basically comments were made that one couldn't be submissive or slave if they were independent, strong, self-reliant; that in order to be submissive or slave one must be dependent and reliant on others.

Do you believe that? Why?

Do you disagree? Why?

All people should be self reliant, as has been said how would single subs cope if they werent. However within the D/s dynamic I think there will be many many times when that self-reliance is stripped and the submissive does become dependant on the Dominant, needing to ask permission etc. The person then can be strong and independant and all that but the roles shift during the relationship, the core person doesnt vanish.

_____________________________

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There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

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(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 25

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 5:21:59 AM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

I believe a true sub/slave is one that depends upon their dominant. Reliance on their dominant for food, shelter and reward when the sub/slave improves.
To be independent there are two aspects of this:
The first aspect, at any time the dominant can decide that they no longer like the sub/slave without any responsibility for what happens to the sub/slave when they are forced to leave.
The second aspect, that the sub/slave is only portraying a role and when they decide they are no longer enjoying themselves they can choose to leave and return to their old life again.

The only time it seems when total submission is required is either in the bedroom and the dungeon. Then its just for the purpose physical gratification and the endorphin addiction for all those involved.

You asked. That is my reply.

So are you saying with this reply that someone who is strong and independent cannot be as good or "true" of a submissive or slave, no matter what, than someone who is wholly dependent and reliant on others? That strong independent subs or slaves are merely playing a role and not truly serving their dominant?

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to Aszhrae)

Post #: 26

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 5:38:04 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

IF i was dependent on others, i wouldn't be divorced ...i would be oblivious to my ex's affairs and whatnot taking the abuse as it comes ...relying on others to manage my life. in other words like my sisters-in-laws ...or a doormat.

however - that's definitely not me.

i was raised to be independent, self-reliant etc etc and it has seen me through some tough times. Daddy loves that He has a strong, indpendent woman as His submissive daughter - and He wouldn't accept anything less either.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 27

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 6:04:29 AM

Vinmier

Posts: 41
Joined: 12/5/2008
Status: offline

I personally, am very independent and always thinking. It would be much harder to have someone dictate every little decision, as Lashra said about micromanaging a prior slave. My Lady prefers that I know what her wishes are whether she has voiced them or not. As an automaton, I think it would be difficult to please her without it being a full time job for her. I do what I can to make her life easier, such as making meals, doing the dishes, doing home repairs and such. Rarely does she request something that I've overlooked or missed. I can take care of most things around here without her direct supervision, because I am a thinker and constantly looking for ways to improve our life together.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 28

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 6:15:38 AM

T1981

Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

I believe a true sub/slave is one that depends upon their dominant. Reliance on their dominant for food, shelter and reward when the sub/slave improves.
To be independent there are two aspects of this:
The first aspect, at any time the dominant can decide that they no longer like the sub/slave without any responsibility for what happens to the sub/slave when they are forced to leave.
The second aspect, that the sub/slave is only portraying a role and when they decide they are no longer enjoying themselves they can choose to leave and return to their old life again.

The only time it seems when total submission is required is either in the bedroom and the dungeon. Then its just for the purpose physical gratification and the endorphin addiction for all those involved.

You asked. That is my reply.

There is no way that my husband could support me completely financially even if we were to move to a full 24/7. He just isn't that rich. Therefore, there is no way I could ever become 100% dependant on him for my food and all of that, because elsewise we'd both be out on the streets. To say it's only a true master/slave relationship when only one person is working and supporting another, etc etc is a fantasy, and leaves out the fact that most people don't work for 50 or 60 grand a year.

Now I know you're going through hard times and even harder idenity issues concerning what your submission means when paired with independance, but surely you don't see yourself as less submissive simply because now you must be more independant? Your submission a gift, honey, not something that can be cheapened by making sure you are taken care of when no one else can.

< Message edited by T1981 -- 1/7/2009 6:17:07 AM >

_____________________________

"Nothing is pointless, every single thing you do resonates." -Pintsize

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 29

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 7:24:24 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

I am independant and self relaint. If i was dependant on Master for everything i never would have made it through school. That being said i am completly submissive to him, but he does not have the need or desire to micro manage me. He likes the fact that i don't need to call him for every little thing and can make decisions on my own. I always say i can take care of myself , but i like to be taken care of. The fact that i am a strong intellegent woman is something Master loves about me.

Matt's littleone

< Message edited by littleone35 -- 1/7/2009 8:22:15 AM >

(in reply to T1981)

Post #: 30

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 7:49:36 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

this slave doesn't buy into either generality that everyone must be dependent or independent in order to be A slave/submissive. it is up to the unique individuals involved.

for example, this slave has been what folks would consider "independent" for about 3 weeks, over the course of her 42 years.

as Daddysprop mentioned in her post:

quote:

all Dominants will have their individual preferences...some find special value in a very needy, very dependent, helpless type of submissive. others find special value in a submissive who is strong and capable in the outside world, but vulnerable and subservient to them alone. neither is better or worse.

this slave agrees with her, it is up to the individuals that comprise the relationship to determine what is most fulfilling and thankfully, everyone is not the same and does not desire the same things.

Edited to add: (Merc)

The only requirement I feel critical for the success of any relationship is honest self awareness going into one. The process may not require independence, but it does require strength; especially in go out and live a life where potentially every aspect of what you determine about yourself and your desires, along with the dynamic of the relationship you desire can be ridiculed and mocked; often by fellow 'community members'.

LA brings up another very important truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Well in order to be in a relationship as a slave, yes I think you need to be dependent and reliant upon the expectations of being in that relationship. But then so does the master.

I know how strong beth is and how independent she can be even if she doesn't. she is also more free, and more confident; although that's not the subject. I see how she has evolved. she is a much more capable person today than she was when we first met. However all those things are also true of me.

Can you say that 'WE' are independent? We're individually independent because of the trust and confidence with have in each other. The scariest thing either of us face is the prospect of having to live independent of the other. That may not represent an 'independent' mind set, but is does represent reality.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 1/7/2009 8:11:59 AM >

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 31

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 8:06:48 AM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

I believe a true sub/slave is one that depends upon their dominant. Reliance on their dominant for food, shelter and reward when the sub/slave improves.
To be independent there are two aspects of this:
The first aspect, at any time the dominant can decide that they no longer like the sub/slave without any responsibility for what happens to the sub/slave when they are forced to leave.
The second aspect, that the sub/slave is only portraying a role and when they decide they are no longer enjoying themselves they can choose to leave and return to their old life again.

The only time it seems when total submission is required is either in the bedroom and the dungeon. Then its just for the purpose physical gratification and the endorphin addiction for all those involved.

You asked. That is my reply.

Aszhrae,
Your concept of what makes a good submissive/slave is one of the concepts I use to hold in mind, and ran from the thought that I might be submissive. But you have helped me to see your view, though it would not work for me. I would ask you to consider that my submissiveness is anything less then what you are will to give to your Mistress.

A submissive can stay or not, and that also can be found in a vanilla relationship. I have seen women and men who live in a domestically violent atmosphere and not leave.

If Sir orders something from me, it is given. I still though take care of myself, which ironically is an order of his too. To be self-sufficient is high on Sir to do list.

I am not living with Sir, nor owned by him, and Aszhrae I have had no plans to run during troubled waters. As long as he seeks my service it will be given.

I do not feel the need to compete with other submissives or have a contest with who is a true one verses not. If someone sees me through their eyes as not being submissive because I do not do A,B or C, then I have to accept it. Your comment in your post describs my as one who truly isn't a submissive. I am not a role player. I do not live in make believe land. So maybe hearing this, you might take a moment to ponder on what I just said.

bright blessings
oceanwynds

(in reply to Aszhrae)

Post #: 32

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 8:12:06 AM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

Beth, I am so glad to see you and daddysprop weigh in on this topic. I have a lot of respect for you both and the way you've chosen to live your lives. I see through your postings that it works so well for you both and yet neither of you judge others as more or less for making different choices in how they live and have their relationships or say they can't be what they identify as because they are different from you.

I think that was my biggest problem with the comments I both heard and read from a few sources, that you could not be sub or slave if you were independent, you had to be dependent to truly be sub or slave.

I believe there is a certain amount of dependence in M/s and D/s relationships, I just think that how much or how little depends on the ones in the relationship; and more or less dependence does not make one more or less sub or slave or better or worse sub or slave. I also do not believe that being independent and such means you are not and cannot be who you are, sub or slave. Make sense?

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 33

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 8:13:14 AM

Chgolostnlooking

Posts: 46
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline

I also agree that a submissive can be very independent and self-reliant. Your face that you show the world can be a very different one that you show privately.

(in reply to oceanwynds)

Post #: 34

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 9:57:23 AM

Aszhrae

Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline

~FR~
I really do believe that it depends on the sub/slave on an individual basis.
Relying on someone for direction is not a lack of personally will, limited independent behavior is something I am very much capable of doing but I need permission to do so. Site management requires a certain amount of independence to make the hard decisions, purchasing and handling of site finances.
Also requiring a Miss and/or Sir to provide guidance is not a hard need but it is highly desirable during the establishing of a routine where tasks to be done on a daily basis is par for being a sub/slave.
In some of my statements I have found that what I am trying to say gets a little twisted in its interpretation. Perhaps its my own lack of education Sassy.
Not all sub/slaves are created equally.
I enjoy being told what I need to do and left alone to do them to the best of my ability. It does require a certain amount of independence and I most certainly don't need to stand over me to make sure that I do what was asked of me properly.
Being capable of independent thought, but needing to know what my dominant expects of me when it comes to task is what is desirable.
Certainly I am self-supportive but I much rather being contributing to making both my dominant and my own life better. I am not that selfish. I am much happier serving in the capacity to contribute to the whole.
Direction to doing a particular task. Guidance when I am having difficulty dealing with a situation. Having a dominant as my counsel. How is that any different than asking for insight from your friends or family members? If a dominant can't be bothered then such a dominant is the wrong dominant for me because then I feel the dominant doesn't care about my well-being. Why should I care about the dominant or even give them the respect they deserve.
This is what worries me about the independent question. If you are so independent, why the hell should I even have a dominant?

_____________________________

To my own self, I be true.

Goddess bless and keep you and yours safe

Ricah-Azzh

(in reply to Chgolostnlooking)

Post #: 35

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 9:59:54 AM

Kimveri

Posts: 783
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline

Good morning, folks,

Howdy, SassySarijane,

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane
Some recent comments got me wondering what others think. Basically comments were made that one couldn't be submissive or slave if they were independent, strong, self-reliant; that in order to be submissive or slave one must be dependent and reliant on others.

I disagree with both the statement quoted above as well as the comments disputing it because they are too ‘absolute’, leaving no room for the innate variations of individuals.

Each individual will find a specific & unique point on the spectrum between complete dependence & complete independence where they will best thrive. That point relies on input from both (or all) parties involved, & that point can change as the input changes. For example: one’s relationship with one’s dominant inspires greater degrees of dependence than one’s relationship with one’s younger sibling.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sambamanslilgirl
i was raised to be independent, self-reliant etc etc and it has seen me through some tough times. Daddy loves that He has a strong, indpendent woman as His submissive daughter - and He wouldn't accept anything less either.

How come accepting someone who is more dependent is accepting “less”? That would be purely a matter of individual preferences, wouldn’t it? One is not “less” than the other, merely different & thus perhaps not that person’s preference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Unfortunately, the kink world refuses to let go of its myth that personality = orientation

This needs to be explored, in depth & repeatedly. The truth is that submission is a natural behavioral response to specific stimuli. Increase the influence of the stimuli & you increase the submissive response. It’s not a static personality type existing independent of external factors. Decrease the stimuli & decrease the response. This is, in part, why some people respond with a high degree of submission to certain person/circumstances & yet function without any submissive behaviors in other, non-stimulating, situations & interactions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
it is up to the individuals that comprise the relationship to determine what is most fulfilling and thankfully, everyone is not the same and does not desire the same things.

Sufficient self-exploration leads to sufficient self-knowledge. This then reveals where, on the spectrum between complete dependence & complete independence, one will best thrive. Functioning in that capacity leads to greatest fulfillment, which increases the chances of success, happiness (o’, that elusive butterfly!), productivity & actualization.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Edited to add: (Merc)
The only requirement I feel critical for the success of any relationship is honest self awareness going into one. The process may not require independence, but it does require strength; especially in go out and live a life where potentially every aspect of what you determine about yourself and your desires, along with the dynamic of the relationship you desire can be ridiculed and mocked; often by fellow 'community members'.

Resistance & adversity increases the value of the thing gained by overcoming those obstacles. The converse may also be true: the highest values are blocked by the greatest impediments, thus ensuring the rarity of their achievement. Either way, those moments of personal discovery & acceptance are precious & worth all hardship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I know how strong beth is and how independent she can be even if she doesn't. she is also more free, and more confident; although that's not the subject. I see how she has evolved. she is a much more capable person today than she was when we first met. However all those things are also true of me.

By doing the work to find where you each thrive, then doing the work to be the best support for each other’s thriving & fulfillment, you have revealed the value of a natural & balanced pairing. Through that complementary pairing you are each more actualized than you would be as solitary individuals. Some of the human being’s deepest needs are linked to optimal pair-bonds producing optimal circumstances for offspring. Of course these must be incredibly rewarding & satisfying…..otherwise why do all that damn work?? ;-P

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The scariest thing either of us face is the prospect of having to live independent of the other.

There was a moment not long ago when I shared that sentiment with my Soul mate, Unbuilder. I told him how I felt that, as long as I was holding his hand, I could climb the mountain of life with zeal. He sighed & said that this statement showed him that his efforts to guide me were not yet successful. He said success would be the moment when climbing that mountain so thrilled me that I would let go his hand & not even notice I was moving ahead independently.

He has directed me towards independence, rather than dependence. His certainty, his wisdom, his integrity in that goal continues to stimulate a submissive response in me. The level of independence I’ve achieved has little to do with my response to him. The relationship with him is not indicative of my relationship with others, nor is it definitive of my personality.

I’ve rambled enough. I hope some of this brought others to think about the inaccuracies in applying their personal standards & preferences to others.

I wish you all well,

~Kimveri

_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 36

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 10:19:56 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

...Unfortunately, the kink world refuses to let go of its myth that personality = orientation and thus the more stereotypical sub personality a person has, the more sub orientation they claim or are perceived to be...

quote:

...It’s not a static personality type existing independent of external factors...

perhaps for you and LuckyAlbatross it is a myth, but it isn't for those of us who do have a "static" submissive personality type AND a preference to submit in the context of a relationship.

quote:

...I hope some of this brought others to think about the inaccuracies in applying their personal standards & preferences to others...

indeed, wise words we should ALL heed, don't you agree?

(in reply to Kimveri)

Post #: 37

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 10:23:40 AM

camille65

Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

Some recent comments got me wondering what others think. Basically comments were made that one couldn't be submissive or slave if they were independent, strong, self-reliant; that in order to be submissive or slave one must be dependent and reliant on others.

Do you believe that? Why?

Do you disagree? Why?

I am financially independent but that is where it stops. He enjoys my being emotionally dependent, the depth of my need for him is returned by his need to take care of me.

Personally I think I am incredibly lucky to have found a man who is more than happy to have me lean on him.

If something happened to him I would be capable of taking care of myself but it would be an internal battle.

So I guess I am dependent to a large degree but with the capability of being on my own if it happens.

I do not believe it is an 'either or' situation, it simply depends (okay slight pun there) on the people involved and their particular wants/desires.

_____________________________

~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 38

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 12:23:07 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I don't deny submissive personality types exist. I simply reject that it has any necessary connection to having a submissive orientation. The fact that they do sometimes coincide seems as normal as the fact that they do NOT sometimes coincide.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to camille65)

Post #: 39

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/7/2009 12:31:30 PM

E2Sweet

Posts: 649
Joined: 7/8/2008
From: TopLeftCornerOf, OH, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

Do you believe that? Why?

Do you disagree? Why?

I consider myself extremely independent and self-sufficient in my day-to day, and I'm recently finding the submissive hat is fitting wonderfully. Along with feeling very cared for and treasured by my dominant counterpart, exploring my submission is bringing me a long needed emotional balance. I now see that I have been a bit too independent and self-reliant overall, and being out-of-balance that way has had some negative impacts on how I think, feel, and live. Exploring my submissive side is doing exactly what I had hoped, and that's bringing me an overall feeling of being centered and, well, just plain happy...

_____________________________

E2Sweet™
"If it doesn't make you smile then chances are you're not doing it right."

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 40

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