RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave?

Page: << < prev 2 3 4 [5] 6 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/9/2009 1:11:31 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

Perhaps it's the way questions are often asked and the way comments are often phrased.

Basically comments were made that one couldn't be submissive or slave if they were independent, strong, self-reliant; that in order to be submissive or slave one must be dependent and reliant on others.

Not your words, I know........but the point is they get said in that tedious and dull either/or manner.

I could be in the minority here......but I've never met anyone that was ALL one thing or the other. They are usually a mass of dichotomies. Liking /hating the same things... strong/weak....etc

agirl

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 81

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/9/2009 1:52:15 PM

Aszhrae

Posts: 1030
Joined: 3/31/2008
Status: offline

~FR~

I personally believe independence, should not just mean that an individual is capable of surviving in the world on their own. I would like to say, a good independent behavior is a valuable trait when or if the dominant becomes ill and unable to tend to their needs or the maintaining of their holdings. Being independent is not always a daily requirement but just in case anything happens, the sub/slave can take the reigns if need be until the dominant is back on their feet.
Another good quality of independent thought when you need to be, for example: the dominant is called out of town. There are matters that need to be taken care of while the dominant is unavailable to have things completed.
Handling a building site, as that is my experience, you need to display remarkable independence in order to make the hard decisions. I have been on sites where I have been responsible for managing anywhere from 3-18 different people. Does not make me any less submissive and having that many individuals to manage while the boss (Sir) is out of town visiting family or tending to his health.
Picking up the gauntlet when needed is certainly requires experience at being independent but it should not be the deciding trait when choosing a sub/slave.
Unless of course the intent is a feather in the cap of the dominant to have another dominant as a submissive or slave.

_____________________________

To my own self, I be true.

Goddess bless and keep you and yours safe

Ricah-Azzh

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 82

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/9/2009 3:17:58 PM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Perhaps it's the way questions are often asked and the way comments are often phrased.

Basically comments were made that one couldn't be submissive or slave if they were independent, strong, self-reliant; that in order to be submissive or slave one must be dependent and reliant on others.

Not your words, I know........but the point is they get said in that tedious and dull either/or manner.

I could be in the minority here......but I've never met anyone that was ALL one thing or the other. They are usually a mass of dichotomies. Liking /hating the same things... strong/weak....etc

agirl

I don't think it's the minority at all. I know I've never seen anyone all one thing or another. I think maybe in discussions on here and other places, we tend to get fixated on one point or another or one side or another and forget those shades of grey, the dichotomies that make up everyone and everything to one degree or another.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 83

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/9/2009 3:24:22 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

Kimveri,

quote:

...I am sorry to hear this...

please, don't be...it would be a total waste.
this slave lives a very fulfilling life and doesn't believe she has missed out on any joy/bliss/contentment because her experience with submission is vastly different than another's.

obviously, we aren't going to agree, and that's fine. seeing as how this thread was intended to be about independence and not about the existence(or not) of a submissive personality type, this slave will not hijack it any further by engaging you on this thread.

if you'd like to continue this discussion further, please feel free to contact this slave on the other side.

(in reply to Kimveri)

Post #: 84

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/9/2009 6:28:31 PM

Kimveri

Posts: 783
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Vegas
Status: offline

Evening, SassySarijane,

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane
In a relationship I am going to be dependent and reliant to one degree or another, but I will also still be self reliant and independent. How much or little of each will depend on the dynamic and I feel it will be a flowing thing rather than totally locked into this much one and this much the other. I think ongoing circumstances caused by life will keep it flowing overall with very likely a few set areas staying one or the other as the rest flows through shades of grey.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. This is the direction I attempted to go in, unsucessfully. ;-/

I think that we are inaccurate when we discount the full spectrum of successful interactions by insisting that it's all black & white.

Perhaps it's really not a matter of how much dependence/reliance/submission is "right" at all. Maybe it's really about what it takes to adapt to changing circumstances. As much as we may wish that we will find that perfect partner(s) & be perfectly fulfilled, life is rarely sufficiently unchanging for all the variables involved to remain in place. Things change, shit happens & we either adapt & overcome or we give up & quit.

Sure, there are moments of perfection where all factors come together & we can focus on the primary & complementary aspects of ourselves & our partner(s), experiencing fulfillment. Just as surely there are times when those factors, & the expressed aspects of ourselves, are less than stellar. How we adapt & move past that to once again find that balance that best suits each of us as individuals is likely the important thing.

Thanks for distilling this most germaine point.

Well wishes,

~Kimveri

_____________________________

"You get what you accept."

"It is always wise to examine the facts from all angles before one renders a summary judgement."~_Marcus_

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 85

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/10/2009 7:54:20 AM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kimveri

Evening, SassySarijane,

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane
In a relationship I am going to be dependent and reliant to one degree or another, but I will also still be self reliant and independent. How much or little of each will depend on the dynamic and I feel it will be a flowing thing rather than totally locked into this much one and this much the other. I think ongoing circumstances caused by life will keep it flowing overall with very likely a few set areas staying one or the other as the rest flows through shades of grey.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. This is the direction I attempted to go in, unsucessfully. ;-/

I think that we are inaccurate when we discount the full spectrum of successful interactions by insisting that it's all black & white.

Perhaps it's really not a matter of how much dependence/reliance/submission is "right" at all. Maybe it's really about what it takes to adapt to changing circumstances. As much as we may wish that we will find that perfect partner(s) & be perfectly fulfilled, life is rarely sufficiently unchanging for all the variables involved to remain in place. Things change, shit happens & we either adapt & overcome or we give up & quit.

Sure, there are moments of perfection where all factors come together & we can focus on the primary & complementary aspects of ourselves & our partner(s), experiencing fulfillment. Just as surely there are times when those factors, & the expressed aspects of ourselves, are less than stellar. How we adapt & move past that to once again find that balance that best suits each of us as individuals is likely the important thing.

Thanks for distilling this most germaine point.

Well wishes,

~Kimveri

Hi Kimveri,

I wouldn't worry overmuch on being unsucessful in the direction you were trying to go. I find myself needing to clarify things as people respond to my posts which I'd believed I'd been very clear in. It's others' perceptions of what you say more than what you actually say that can cause the problems, though I know I've totally botched what I've been trying to say before lol. I just do my best to clarify as asked so that hopefully my points and meanings get through.

I agree that we are inacurate when we discount the full spectrum, but we are all guilty of it at one time or another in one way or another. I definitely have been before and probably will be again. I get fixated on a certain point or part of something and worry it like a pitbull for awhile until it hits me that there is more than that point to consider in answering or trying to help resolve a situation.

I try to ask for clarification where I am unsure of what the person meant on something. I like as much info as is possible when I offer advice or my thoughts and views on something, but sometimes I just have to answer based on what, sometimes very little, information is given. That tends to keep it much more in the black and white and makes it harder to bring in those shades of grey for me.

I don't believe there is a universal right amount of dependence, independence, reliance, self reliance and submission/slavery. It will vary relationship by relationship and person by person and sadly we tend to all too often forget that.

No relationship I have ever been in or seen was ever 100% perfect all the time. They are fluid, allowing room for growth, and all have their bad moments as well as the good. When people go in expecting relationship utopia, they will be disappointed.

There are always "bad moments", but as with most anything, the amount of them and the "badness" of them vary by relationship, some having very few and making it seem they have nearly found the utopia, and others having more and worse to deal with that will either strengthen or end the relationship in time. I think, as you said, that it's how they deal with the bad that can make or break the relationship.

And let us not forget that there is much good and much positive in many relationships as well and that helps strengthen it also. I was just making a particular point on the bad.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to Kimveri)

Post #: 86

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 1/10/2009 7:55:35 AM

SimplyIsaac

Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline

I say bs.

I think their resourcefulness makes them even more appealing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

Some recent comments got me wondering what others think. Basically comments were made that one couldn't be submissive or slave if they were independent, strong, self-reliant; that in order to be submissive or slave one must be dependent and reliant on others.

Do you believe that? Why?

Do you disagree? Why?

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 87

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/14/2009 7:10:54 PM

NoctumEquus

Posts: 1
Joined: 2/27/2009
Status: offline

Rayne749

You have answered your own question , questioning a Doms is a lack of trust in that DOM. That however that is your way of developing trust with a DOM, thus it is your independant choice.

When/if you find your DOM you will trust your DOM to tell you what you want to know when your DOM wants to tell you. That will be part of your submission to your DOM.

You are a sub when you say that you are a sub. Being a DOM requires more than that and you clearly would like that proof from DOMS that you come into contact with.

< Message edited by NoctumEquus -- 3/14/2009 7:11:52 PM >

(in reply to Rayne749)

Post #: 88

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/14/2009 10:42:59 PM

marysdream

Posts: 126
Joined: 5/31/2008
Status: offline

of course not , knowing yourself and being independent is attractive to any man..D or otherwise..they will tire of the others eventually!
ree

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 89

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/15/2009 6:53:31 AM

SirJ40

Posts: 164
Joined: 12/21/2008
Status: offline

The more capable, intelligent, and self-assured the sub or slave is, the greater the rewards of gaining that person's submission. If someone doesn't stand up for themselves on a regular basis to start with, and always requires input/control/advice anyhow, asking Me to do that for them isn't much of a submission, is it? It's just handing the responsibility to someone new.. again.
My girl is very strong willed, has huge responsibilities at work, and has managed a very difficult and interesting life of her own.. she has never felt able to submit to anyone until now. To Me, this makes her submission eleventeen times (lol) more valuable. And it does to her, as well.. she gets to relax, let Me handle things, know that she can trust and rely on Me to be there.. IMO, the actual "point" of the exercise, really... the rewards for both of us are quite apparent, I think.

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 90

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/15/2009 9:37:21 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

FR...

I have to conclude that I have a fair amount of independance and it's been encouraged by M, but to counter that, being owned has also made me dependant too, in ways I never was before.

So, I am MORE independant in some ways , and less in others. If I was completely independant I'd go out and about and live my life exactly how I want to........I don't because I'm owned and I live it in the way that's been deemed best for me by someone else.

I'm not TOTALLY independant and never have been ....not in every way that's possible. I've relied on other people for companionship, for fun, for validation, for love and loyalty, for guidance and inspiration, for motivation and loads of other things.

Yes, I can live life quite well without a *bloke* in it. It's not a requirement to have a *life* that works.......but having M makes life enhanced.

I'm not immune to crumbling during death/divorce and other crises but that's really got nothing to do with independance. It also has nothing to do with micro-managing. I can be micro-managed until the cows come home and still be as independant as I was before once it vamooshes.

For me , the fact is , I will have a life that flows, no matter who's in it, and my reliance on the people in it in the here and now, doesn't whip that away. I'm not interested in pursuing total independance from M..my life is enmeshed with him and he's a thread that runs right through it..........of COURSE it'd unravel if he disappeared but life'd still go on and so would I.

agirl

(in reply to SirJ40)

Post #: 91

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/15/2009 1:53:50 PM

yankeebabe

Posts: 5
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline

I believe that a Submissive can be in the beginning dependent and weak when learning how to please my Dom and giving everything to the Dom. I had a mess of a life before coming to know D/s, knowing what I am and growing over time with the love of my Dom to guide me to heights I have only dreamed about, I know when I have a hard time who I can call for guidance and love I might not always like what he has to say, but I know my place with him always. In Business and with my kids I am the dommie, in the bedroom I am all his. I love what he has helped me make our live he has pulled me from the hell I knew, Every day gets better.

yankee

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 92

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/15/2009 3:26:29 PM

ChelseaNY

Posts: 33
Joined: 3/13/2009
Status: offline

I am an independent person, and I have my own views and opinions. I can take good care of myself. If I offer myself as a submissive to someone they should feel even better about those qualities because it shows that I am giving myself to them when I am quite capable of being on my own. Being submissive does not always have to mean surrendering your every thought or desire. Of course there are those who do, and hey more power to them. I know many people wish to give up their total being and many wish to posess their sub in every way. That is the choice to be made. But there are degrees of submission, you do not have to be an automaton to be a sub.

_____________________________

Chelsea Kya

"It is better to be hated for what you are, than to be loved for what you are not"

"Pay no mind to those who speak behind your back, it simply means you are two steps ahead"

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 93

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/15/2009 4:16:25 PM

DavanKael

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline

I don't believe we (people) are meant to be alone. I think that there is a difference, though, between cultivating meaningful, depthful relationships and attachments that bleed into pathology. My best friend says of "need" in relationships: "Need is a 12 step program". While I don't exactly take my thoughts that far, I think there is wisdom in the statement.
Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 94

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/15/2009 6:19:53 PM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: yankeebabe

I believe that a Submissive can be in the beginning dependent and weak when learning how to please my Dom and giving everything to the Dom.
yankee

Some submissives, sure, but not all. I cannot let go of my independence to any degree unless and until a loving relationship is building and a lot of trust and respect is established, which for me takes time and both parties working together. Even when things are established, I would never consider myself weak or dependent, but rather having the trust to surrender what my dom wants and asks into his care.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to yankeebabe)

Post #: 95

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/15/2009 6:52:18 PM

rouletteslave

Posts: 29
Joined: 3/15/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SassySarijane

Some recent comments got me wondering what others think. Basically comments were made that one couldn't be submissive or slave if they were independent, strong, self-reliant; that in order to be submissive or slave one must be dependent and reliant on others.

Do you believe that? Why?

Do you disagree? Why?

I find a lot of this depends on how you define the term slave. I've known and dated a good many Mistresses and Professional Dommes over the course of my life. One of the things that seemed to draw them to me was that I had my own life together. The notion of slavery is often taken to mean that one is turning over all aspects of ones life to the control of someone else. I do not consider that healthy and can not phathom anyone taking this course of action unless he or she already felt that he or she had nothing to lose in the decision. Hence, under this definition of slave, you could not both be a slave and self-reliant.

_____________________________

Please visit my Mistress's Blog at www.MistressRoulette.com

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 96

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/16/2009 9:29:03 AM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

This has been an interesting thread to read. It also brings up more questions to be debated. The original post

"...one couldn't be submissive or slave if they were independent, strong, self-reliant; that in order to be submissive or slave one must be dependent and reliant on others. "
I think we actually DO have to draw a line between types of submissives and slaves here to answer this in any meaningful way, individually or as a community definition.

An already self-reliant submissive that maintains that self-reliance outside the direct contact time with the D is one dynamic.
A submissive that is totally in charge with NO interaction or direction from the D in some aspects of their lives direct contact or not is another dynamic
A submissive in chaos that develops areas of self-reliance because of the support and direction of the D is another dynamic.

An already self-reliant slave that channels that self-reliance to doing the will of the M is a totally different dynamic from those above.
An already self-reliant slave that gives up that self-reliance for a time to rebuild it the way the M wants it is yet another dynamic.
A slave in chaos that develops self-reliance due to the orders and discipline of the M is another dynamic still.

These are just the first 6 examples that came to mind just for self-reliance , but in each case the ability to handle situations by themselves, the self-reliance, comes from somewhere and survives, flourishes, or is made or directed DUE to the dynamic.

For independence and strength, I have other examples in my mind but they rely heavily on HOW the trait is defined. Self-reliant is less open to vagary, to me at least, than strength (of body, of mind, of moral character, of beliefs, meaning determination, meaning resilience, meaning high levels of coping mechanisms, meaning not desiring or wanting direction or leadership, and the list goes on) and independence (financial, emotional, mental, political, meaning risk assessment and evaluation, and on and on) can and do mean more than just one concept and have lots of connotation and denotations in everyday speak.

I hope i am getting the ideas i have across here; that a trait plays out differently and has a different level of use and desirability in a submissive and in a slave and in the various relationships in which they enter.

_____________________________

Wait! Are those my pants?
If it has testicle or tires, it's gonna give you the fidgets.
Pretend I said something witty and laugh.

(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 97

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/21/2009 1:22:29 AM

bubblesoffun

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline

I am a very independent, strong, self-reliant slave and I feel because I am my current owner feels threatened by that and is having a hard time balancing it all but in the end i think having a slave like that is only a plus because she will serve you completely and will passion.

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 98

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/21/2009 9:22:35 AM

greeneyedreamer

Posts: 442
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline

I have to agree here, I am very independent and very submissive. I have a job that makes me very dominant and handle it pretty well if i say so myself! So I have to say, it doesn't make you less submissive at all!

_____________________________

Dreamer, owned and ecstatically happy

I am still learning... Michelangelo, age 87

Maybe some women weren't meant to be tamed. Maybe they are suppose to run wild until they find someone just as wild to run with. Sex and the City

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 99

RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave? - 3/21/2009 2:05:05 PM

subsong

Posts: 77
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline

How else would there be a power "exchange" if a sub had no power ???

Any Dom I've ever been with , was quite appreciative of my independence and self reliance . I've heard it's much more exciting to be in control of someone that has a kingdom to conquer - so to speak ...

(in reply to susie)

Post #: 100

Page: << < prev 2 3 4 [5] 6 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Submissive >> RE: Being independent=can't be submissive or slave?

Page: << < prev 2 3 4 [5] 6 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.094