RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?)

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hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 6:11:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach Newsflash, Cory - it is NOT the job of the police to Protect Citizenry From Crime. There was a Very recent thread on this particular subject where it was pointed out (again, as it's been done several times in the past) that the cops' actual job is to file a friggin report after the fact - and maybe, if they're lucky and actually on the ball for a change, catch the alleged perp. Get out of your head any idea that the cops are here to "protect" us. Get out of your head any idea that the cops are here to "serve" us. They're not. They're around to be official bully boys, minor (and usually rather unctious) officials, and to help the statisticians keep records. Does not catching"the alleged perp ,in fact "prevent" future crimes.Therefore fufilling the mandate to "protect and serve"the community. You would think so, wouldn't you, Mike? And I wouldn't Disagree with that - were it not for courts that consistantly allow people out of jail on parole and/or probation that - frankly - should have had a bullet put in them by the baliff as soon as the jury pronounced them Guilty. If it weren't so easy for the Perps to get OUT of jail - IF they're caught - and it's Not a given that they're going to be caught.

slvemike4u -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 6:22:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach Newsflash, Cory - it is NOT the job of the police to Protect Citizenry From Crime. There was a Very recent thread on this particular subject where it was pointed out (again, as it's been done several times in the past) that the cops' actual job is to file a friggin report after the fact - and maybe, if they're lucky and actually on the ball for a change, catch the alleged perp. Get out of your head any idea that the cops are here to "protect" us. Get out of your head any idea that the cops are here to "serve" us. They're not. They're around to be official bully boys, minor (and usually rather unctious) officials, and to help the statisticians keep records. Does not catching"the alleged perp ,in fact "prevent" future crimes.Therefore fufilling the mandate to "protect and serve"the community. You would think so, wouldn't you, Mike? And I wouldn't Disagree with that - were it not for courts that consistantly allow people out of jail on parole and/or probation that - frankly - should have had a bullet put in them by the baliff as soon as the jury pronounced them Guilty. If it weren't so easy for the Perps to get OUT of jail - IF they're caught - and it's Not a given that they're going to be caught. [/quote)Peach,your contention seems to be more an indictment of the Criminal Justice System... than with LEO's.Disarming LEO's would not address the revolving door sytsem you decry...The only saving grace to this whole hare-brained suggestion is that it appears here rather than in any serious and influential forum.

corysub -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 6:33:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Same here, scifi: my comments weren't addressed to you personally. I blame the 'fast reply' for the confusion [&:] . And... SubmissiveUK: give me an unarmed cop over an armed one anyday. It's a question of personal comfort for me :-) . It truly is a wonderful thing that, with few exceptions, the police in the U.K. are unarmed. Even the police seem happy with the situation, as long as there is armed back-up readily available. People like the idea of an unarmed cop on the beat and the police, as I have learned, feel being unarmed puts them closer to the community. It's also true that the situation in the U.S. is entirely different. In the beginning, we were a huge frontier nation and a man carried the law with a weapon on his hip, and I guess we never got out of the habit. The country is loaded with weapons, mostly in the hands of honest people who feel the need for a weapon for hunting, for home protection, business protection or whatever. It's a part of the American landscape. England luckily has a very low gun population but crime in some areas is getting deadly and in Nottingham, for example, police are armed. According to a recent BBC article, "the police in Nottingham have played down suggestions that it is the start of a process that will end with all street patrols being routinely armed. The move has been targeted at specific areas, with the intention of reassuring the public and sending a strong message to young criminals not to use guns " Is that a trend...who knows...and most people in the U.K. still prefer an unarmed force....but change could be coming to England too!

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 6:47:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scifi1133 The same people trashing the cops are the same people who scrream the loudest when something happens to their stuff. Not every cop on the street is "bad" or "out to get you". Trash them all you want without them your screwed. Really. I'd file a report if some of my "stuff" walked away, but I wouldn't trust a Pig as far as I could throw one.

Gwynvyd -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 7:10:42 PM)
First off, As a citizen you can not possibly know what is really going on durring an arrest. There may be things that you do not notice, nor understand. Secondly she didnt even film him being shot. She did not see it. If he had reached into his pocket and tried to pull out something then he would most likely be shot. It goes that way for anyone you have in custody, or are questioning. The number one rule of being a Law Enforcement Officer ( LEO) is go home at the end of your shift. If you think all police are corrupt meanies set apon society I do not want to hear a fucking word from you when no one does a damn thing about your mother, sister, or girlfriend being raped. I dont want to hear a fucking peep out of you when some one decides to shoot up some bar you are in. I dont want to see you even look around for one if you get mugged. There are some very very bad, ugly people out there that go out of their way to hurt others, kill, rape, abuse, and steal. LEOs are the ones who deal with these scum bags, and try their best to keep the peace while wankers bitch about them even existing... usually because these very same wankers got pulled over for a DUI, or driving too fast. I am honestly appalled that some have such sour grapes over things THEY did and got caught for... that they now feel the whole system needs to be scraped. If you have been a victim of "police brutality" then I am sorry but some times what you percieve as "police brutality" was done because you did something stupid like try to put your hands into your pockets... or pull something out of your coat. ~ See Rule #1 above. And life is not a deserted island... life is full of dumb jack asses out to kill, rape, and hurt one another. You need trained people who keep a calm head ( most of the time) to keep the normal folk protected from these idjits. We had a riot here in town because a LEO had the aduacity of shooting some teenaged gang banger when he was firing into a crowd of party goers, and then wouldnt put down his gun when the police officer yelled for 5 mins for him to drop his gun. If this "poor innocent" kid had hit someone with his bullets then the police officer would have maybe been ok in the publics eyes.. maybe.. but no.. he didnt kill any one yet.. so let him continue till he does.. then blame the cops because they didnt get there soon enough, or do enough to stop him. I wish I could have slapped the shit out of and some sense into everyone who thought the LEO was wrong to shoot this. kid. Gwyn, Ex K-9 LEO

Katchoo -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 7:20:17 PM)
Interesting topic. There are posters from the UK and the US... my response is specific to the US: i am convinced that the majority of dominants are, at heart, anarchist in nature... so inclined are they to be highly responsible and their own boss. Unfortunately, as the trolls on this website constantly reflect, few people are of the moral calibre to maintain an acceptable level of responsibility without an executive branch. Laws keep some people from doing bad things... tell me... would you drive faster if there were no State Patrol? Now, think of the worst driver you know and tell me... do you want them to be able to drive as fast as they like, because no force exists to dissuade them? You can tell me Darwin will take care of it all, but just remember he might take you down with him. i have scraped many an innocent up off the pavement. i have worked within law enforcement for years on the forensic side. There are bad cops; there are good cops. There are bad bagboys; there are good bagboys. There are regulations within agencies to ensure proper behavior. Doubters, you go spend a day with Internal Affairs... fun fun fun! The street cops themselves are fodder, Cover-your-buddy's-ass is for the uppers and for TV shows. It isn't easy sometimes being a cop. You spend most of your time at traffic accidents and breaking up domestic disputes. Many times you are put in potentially life-threatening situations. You run from one situation to the next. It is mostly thankless work. Regardless of why they are there, it is pretty certain that someone is having an exceptionally bad day. It's also been my experience that the people who have the least use for the cops are the ones who cry the loudest when they aren't there. Sure cops have to write reports... they hate it it and do it because they are required to. i ate donuts for breakfast many times as i had no spare time running from call to call to cook anything or pack anything or stop to eat anything real. You think you can handle your own in this world with no one there to symbolize enforcement of the laws? i'd rather have law enforcement than live in a complex surrounded by barbwire, protected by machine guns, unable to venture outside for all the thug trash waiting to prey on me. Depends on where you live, but cities would be unliveable without the po-po. i haven't seen a study yet to suggest that increased police patroling of an area increases crime. Let me know who's going to take care of things for you the next time you are robbed, raped or murdered. i won't be there to process your crime scene if the cops aren't there too, because i'm not allowed to carry a gun when i work. Let me know how figuring the forensics out yourself works out for you...

Gwynvyd -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 7:22:45 PM)
You were much more gentle then I was I am afraid. ( I am just now reading through) [sm=goodpost.gif] There are so many.. and esp here.... that hate all LEOs.. and any type of authority because they have been "busted" in the past or fear being busted. You can single them out.. and I bet you a dime to a doughnut that they have some sort of record.. or something to fear. sighs Is ok... I just hope they never have to depend on us to protect them. Gods knows they prob. wouldnt have the common sense to ask for the help, or seek it. Gwyn quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u celticlord2112......As an ex-cop of many years, would not do us any good to get together to talk, as I see your views on the subject......I can get along very well with anyone, but what I see you saying here.....well, let's just say that I will be more of a man and reserve my comments....as I know they will not be appreciated, and know that I am a better man for keeping them to myself. You are a man that is in need of help!....and surprisingly, one day it just may be a cop that comes to you and offers that help too! I sit here as an ex-cop, both military and civilian, of near 20 years, and have read just a few of the posts here, and what I am seeing disgusts me. I will say that yes the video was troublesome to see, and yes there are at times incidents that unfortunately do and will happen, face it folks the world is not a perfect place, never has been, and never will be. Yes there are some bad apples out there that have sworn to serve and to protect. But to bad mouth and bash all that do so on a daily basis, some of you need to grow up and get a life. You sit where you are, some making very good money, while an officer can and I personally knew of some that were collecting food stamps while on the job just to survive and put food on their table to feed their children because of the LOW pay they get for what they do every day so you can be in a better place and make what you make, so you can sleep in peace and in safety at night, knowing they are out there protecting you and yours EVEN thought they dont even know who you are. You want to bash someone, bash the corrupt ones, but instead you bash them all? What kind of world are you living in? What fantasy life are you in that the rest of society is clueless on? Cops on the street have never been up to date, with weaponry against the criminal out on the street. Departments do try, however it is a neverending thing. As for police not being able to hit what they do aim at, well as for this ex-cop, we trained often, and even in our off time...Want to see what I can hit? Officers spend more time in classes and training than you could ever imagine. Still yes, you will find and see an occassional corrupt one out there. Keeping in mind also in any given situation it is easy to sit and judge what an officer did out on the street, but keep in mind in the midst of things, that officer had maybe 2 seconds to make that decision, while you have a lifetime to judge whether he/she did right or wrong in it. A cop once hired on the job is next to useless for the first 1 1/2 to 2 years due to all the classes and training that they must go through. Effectively they are not good out on the street up to about 1 1/2 to 2 years, and still not have the experience that goes with all the training that has been thrown at them in that time. The officer that did this shooting, I believe they did say yes he was a rooky of 2 years, not enought time out there to gain any amount of real experience after all his training before he was put out there to begin with. I started civilian police in 1984, and that first year found myself being shot at for what? Because someone did not want to go to jail for their drugs? and for what, $12k a year, and IF I had a bullet proof vest, I HAD TO PAY FOR IT MYSELF. To protect you, those that rant and rave and bash those that are out there EVERY single day to try to make this world a better place for you to coninue making your money and having your families safe and secure? Those that want to bash the police, do so under the very protection that they provide for you every day, so you can rant and rave even. Those here that bash ALL cops here, take a good hard look, someday you just may need them, and even though you bash them, they will come running anyway. To proctect you so you can bash them another day. You will need them some day....and tell me, when that day comes, will you still continue to bash them then? Not all are bad apples, yes a few out there make it seem as so....but look at the number of EXTREMELY GOOD cops out there all across this country, then see the FEW bad ones out there.............me, yes I was a cop for a number of years, I'LL TAKE MY CHANCES WITH THEM, AND THANK THEM FOR WHAT THEY CONTINUE TO DO....do i still have guns, yes I do, will I use them IF I need to, yes I will......take them away from me? COME TRY!

lronitulstahp -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 7:37:24 PM)
Gwyn...i've seen the footage from a few angles...thank goodness people are recording this kind of shit nowadays. It puts people on guard. The young man was out, celebrating New Years. He was handcuffed(unable to reach into pockets, , face down, unarmed, held down by one officer, and shot in the back by another officer who "may" have been reaching for his taser...(seriously????) Here is better footage of the incident. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAHjhtYZpX0&feature=related There was a large crowd of eyewitnesses. But i suppose the value of the Oakland CA life depreciates rather quickly. [8\|] The cops don't even seem to care.... edited to say: And let me clarify, i don't mean all cops...but i do mean i have encountered a shockingly high number of hateful, biased, uncouth, and totally crooked cops in my time. To say all cops are bad...wrong. But also wrong to give law enforcement more lauds and power than many seem to deserve.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 7:39:46 PM)
~FR~ If I had the choice to not have the police assist me, I would choose it. I have no record, and I have no fear of them. I was in private security (non uniformed) for a while and worked with off duty police officers from all over Atlanta. I know what many of them will do for money or ego. I know very few of them that have a personal code that I admire. I also know about the code of silence too. As a cop if you turn in a cop for doing wrong, then you might as well go to work for IAD or somewhere else. My most recent encounter was getting pulled over for following too close, I still recall no vehicle in my lane on the interstate but I was polite. During asking me for my license, insurance and so forth I was asked if it was okay if he searched my vehicle. I asked why, and immediately a very aggressive and accusatory demeanor came about. I was told that only those with something to hide would ask why. I refused, and was detained while a K-9 unit was called. The dog hit on my car. My car was dismantled on the interior with everything set on the side of the road, including my back seats. After an hour and a half of sitting in the back of a patrol car, handcuffed I was released and told I could leave. My stuff was not put back, and I spent about 30 minutes just stuffing things back in disorganized. I was told that next time I should go ahead an comply with a search. Sorry but I have always been respectful of police, as that is the best way to avoid ticking one of that has an attitude. So to the good cops out there, clean up your own because the jerks and psycho cops are giving you all a bad name. If you do nothing, then you are as much a part of the problem. Don't act innocent about the kind of cops I and others are talking about, because you are full of shit if you do. They exist in all major cities I have been in. Now does it surprise me that a cop may make a mistake and kill someone? No. We are all human, but they should face the same penalties if not worse than a private citizen.

Gwynvyd -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 7:47:06 PM)
In seeing this footage he was just plain shot. I never would condone shit like this happening. Deadly force is only supposed to happen when there is deadly force being used on you, or you are in fear for your and/or the public saftey. That police officer should have never pulled his peice. Never You never clear leather unless you are going to use it, and you are damn sure someone is about to kill you or a member of the public. This is just so wrong on so many levels. I hope they bring up criminal charges on him. He should be convicted of nothing less then murder or manslaughter. I had not seen this footage. Gwyn

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 8:05:52 PM)
quote: First off, As a citizen you can not possibly know what is really going on durring an arrest. There may be things that you do not notice, nor understand. Secondly she didnt even film him being shot. She did not see it. Yes I can; law enforcement procedures are not state secrets or rocket science. quote: If he had reached into his pocket and tried to pull out something then he would most likely be shot. It goes that way for anyone you have in custody, or are questioning. The number one rule of being a Law Enforcement Officer ( LEO) is go home at the end of your shift. He was in restraints. The number one rule for ALL PEOPLE is to go home at the end of the day. But you never hear people parroting, overly emotional cliches about coal miners, electrical workers, window washers, and so on. quote: If you think all police are corrupt meanies set apon society I do not want to hear a fucking word from you when no one does a damn thing about your mother, sister, or girlfriend being raped. I dont want to hear a fucking peep out of you when some one decides to shoot up some bar you are in. I dont want to see you even look around for one if you get mugged. If you use electricity or drive a car, than I don't want to hear you gripe about pollution. If you go to doctors, I don't want to hear you complain about malpractice. quote: There are some very very bad, ugly people out there that go out of their way to hurt others, kill, rape, abuse, and steal. Yep and you either protect yourself, or leave it to the police to collect evidence from your corpse after they arrive. quote: If you have been a victim of "police brutality" then I am sorry but some times what you percieve as "police brutality" was done because you did something stupid like try to put your hands into your pockets... or pull something out of your coat. ~ See Rule #1 above. And life is not a deserted island... life is full of dumb jack asses out to kill, rape, and hurt one another. You need trained people who keep a calm head ( most of the time) to keep the normal folk protected from these idjits. Yep people are too dumb to know that they deserved to have their ass stomped by 5 cops wielding batons for reaching for their wallet. Us "normies" are too stupid to recognize brutality and illegal behavior. We need super-men with super-intellects to protect us and show the way. [8\|]

MissMorrigan -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 8:14:50 PM)
I wonder what the stats are for people taking the law into their own hands - only to discover their 'facts' were incorrect and they targeted an innocent person. You were spot on in your opening paragraph. quote: ORIGINAL: Katchoo Let me know how figuring the forensics out yourself works out for you...

celticlord2112 -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 8:20:19 PM)
quote: I bet you a dime to a doughnut that they have some sort of record.. or something to fear. Speaking for myself, you'd lose that bet.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 8:23:08 PM)
quote: You need trained people who keep a calm head I need no such person.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 8:24:14 PM)
I'll add that if you were ever a cop; you must be an alcoholic, abuse and cheat on your spouse, have emotional problems, and think about suicide more than others. The statistics say cops are more likely to engage in these behaviors than others in the population, so it must be true.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 8:25:11 PM)
quote: I wonder what the stats are for people taking the law into their own hands - only to discover their 'facts' were incorrect and they targeted an innocent person. I wonder how many more people the Innocence Project will exonerate.

Bella1965 -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 8:32:37 PM)
G'evening all: quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I've seen the evidence lockers of police stations; they're generally filled up with old, rusted long guns and handguns. A few civilian versions of military style rifles, but nothing serious. Maybe in the backwater where you live the evidence locker is made up of those rusty old shotguns, but here in NYC, the beat/radio car patrolmen deal with everything from 22's to automatic machine guns. Every flavor and variety in between and then let's throw in the knives, bats, clubs, chains, explosives and heaven knows what else. I work in law enforcement, although my agency is not armed. I know the dangers we face, daily. I'm not advocating that one newbie jerk with an itchy finger was right, but crap, all you haters must have been caught doing something wrong and are displacing your anger and blame. quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I'll add that if you were ever a cop; you must be an alcoholic, abuse and cheat on your spouse, have emotional problems, and think about suicide more than others. The statistics say cops are more likely to engage in these behaviors than others in the population, so it must be true. You can't be that naive to believe statistics for everything. chuckles Ignorance must be bliss. Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others... [:D] Bella

beargonewild -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 8:34:58 PM)
I sure like how the hatred towards a job occupation has now become hatred towards the actual person in the occupation. If this is a preview on how the attitude of many of the general population is becoming, then why stop with just hating law enforcement people? I really wonder who's next on the list, will it be: health care professionals, farmers, blue collar workers, or why not pink collar workers? Many agree that there will always be a few who are irresponsible and do cast a negative image on the whole. Yet along the way, many people conveniently lose sight of all the positive contributions which every single job has given to society as a whole. What I failed to see in all of these posts is a positive thought to potential solutions to the the problem of corruption of the few who who abuse the power they are given to uphold the laws of both our countries. Frankly from the general attitude and misplaced anger and outrage here, maybe it is time to press that button and wipe the entire human race off this planet. I mean what the hell.....solves all the bitching about what all is wrong with this world. Mind you, this is just a thought coming from this honky white assed Canuck. BAH.

beargonewild -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 8:37:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I'll add that if you were ever a cop; you must be an alcoholic, abuse and cheat on your spouse, have emotional problems, and think about suicide more than others. The statistics say cops are more likely to engage in these behaviors than others in the population, so it must be true. We all know that statistics are always biased , thus they are flawed.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Policeman Murders Citizen. (anyone surprised?) (1/7/2009 8:39:55 PM)
Likely as many who have enjoyed decades of freedom only ot have been convicted in more recent years due to upgrades in DNA testing techniques. quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 I wonder how many more people the Innocence Project will exonerate.

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