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RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/12/2009 10:19:11 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joshua69

man-bitch has always held a special place in my heart.

Incidentally, that was the official term to be used in “The Ten Commandments” until Chuck Heston objected to it.

First I've heard of this. Of course, you can support this with credable evidence?

_____________________________

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Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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(in reply to joshua69)

Post #: 61

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/12/2009 10:31:23 PM

ftmyersartist

Posts: 107
Joined: 9/14/2007
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Pet means a submissive who is not into play but more into being eye candy and a pleasure (sexual) submissive.

Toy means a play partner that is available sexually as well as BDSM play with no strings

Personally. . .I am ok with the term slave. . .seems to have worked well for a long, long time. . .if someone is going to be offended by it. . .so be it. . .the door works both ways. I really don't think BDSM and Ds need to be made politically correct. If they don't get it, then it isn't for them. That's fine. I don't feel the need to make WIITWD easy for the average person to understand.

(in reply to MasterLark)

Post #: 62

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/12/2009 10:33:05 PM

MarksFantasyGirl

Posts: 3660
Joined: 10/13/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Walmart employee.

I was going to read this thread before responding, but this is as far as I got... OMG!!! That is great! Sweets would LOVE That! hahaha!

When He wants to be funny, He calls me His "Dirty Russian Whore". That is really just a personal joke from when we were just friends. (And I'm going to make it less personal now. lol) His ex told Him to talk dirty to her in bed once, so He called her that. She got pissed, and didn't want anything to do with Him for a long time then. He told me that, and I laughed so hard! I told Him that I wouldn't care if He called me that as long as He didn't care that I laugh at Him. So Now, I am His dirty Russian whore. HEHEHE!

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(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 63

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/12/2009 10:34:05 PM

sheezamystry

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/28/2008
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i will never be a sl@ve, because of the historical meaning of the word. i would adore having another word that would work for those who feel they have a sl's heart etc.

Great idea, not so much for talking to nonkinksters, but for the way it makes me feel to hear/read/use that word. ... (veryyyyyyyy sensitive to words--more than canes!). i do know folks who use the word blithely, and some of course who feel deeply that the word works, but...

Good thread, thanks,
mystry

(in reply to MasterLark)

Post #: 64

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/12/2009 10:35:03 PM

joshua69

Posts: 84
Joined: 2/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: joshua69

man-bitch has always held a special place in my heart.

Incidentally, that was the official term to be used in “The Ten Commandments” until Chuck Heston objected to it.

First I've heard of this. Of course, you can support this with credable evidence?

I think I read about it in C.B. DeMille’s memoir. Yul Brynner really wanted to call Heston man-bitch something fierce and was sorely disappointed when the phrase was changed.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 65

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/12/2009 11:12:23 PM

Amaros

Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
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Pet is good, and it has the added bonus that you can use it in public, as it's not uncommonly used by Vanilla's as term of affection.

(in reply to joshua69)

Post #: 66

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/12/2009 11:20:46 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

Many thanks joshua for that info.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to joshua69)

Post #: 67

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/13/2009 1:47:55 AM

pdv99

Posts: 140
Joined: 3/13/2007
From: UK
Status: offline

Thrall is good - linguistically consistent. But "pet" works for me too - I see a lot of similarities in the relationship in terms of dependance, service, control.

(in reply to MasterLark)

Post #: 68

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/13/2009 12:41:38 PM

SimplyIsaac

Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLark

I have long noticed the unfortunate confusion by those new to BDSM about certain words in BDSM that tend to be meant very differently than what the world outside BDSM means by them. Principal among such words is the word "slave." There have been many discussions about what "slave" (or "submissive" etc) mean in the BDSM community; this is NOT meant to be that discussion.

Understanding that most of the larger world sees the term "slave" as meaning human trafficking of a person who has been forced into servitude and is exploited and sold, that "slave" is not the "slave" meant in the BDSM community; the "slave" in the BDSM community involves a consensual aspect that is key. People will argue about the rest of the description and details of a "slave" in BDSM, but suffice to say, newbies hear the word "slave" and most often immediately think of the conventional human trafficking notion, until they learn more.

So I wonder if we as BDSM people who see themselves as "slave" (however that is understood) or who are Dominant with one who is seen as "slave," have instead embraced a substitute name for "slave" and what that substitute name might be. In doing so, it would seem to not invite the comparison to the human trafficking term of "slave."

For example, embracing some of the expressions of fantasy with BDSM, it seems to me that "maiden" might be a good substitute for "slave" as is maiden lissa instead of slave lissa.

Do you have a substitute term for "slave"?

I personally like "dog" for male slaves.

(in reply to MasterLark)

Post #: 69

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/13/2009 3:41:34 PM

ftmyersartist

Posts: 107
Joined: 9/14/2007
Status: offline

Am I the only one thinking. . . if your hang up to becoming a slave is the term slave then you might not be one to start off with so it shouldn't be a problem?

As far as having a "secret word" that can be used around non kinky people. . .I am going with the assumption that you know the person you are going to be the slave of, have seen them, and more then likely they have called you something other then "Hey You" in public so. . .you might just wanna go with has worked in the past and leave the "slutty little cum whole servant of the house of ugh" for private times.

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

Post #: 70

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/13/2009 7:27:04 PM

graceadieu

Posts: 1518
Joined: 3/20/2008
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ftmyersartist

Pet means a submissive who is not into play but more into being eye candy and a pleasure (sexual) submissive.

Toy means a play partner that is available sexually as well as BDSM play with no strings

I think that's all very subjective, though. In my mind, "pet" sounds someone who basically wants the same kind of relationship an owner would have with their pet. Lot of affection and adoration but not a lot of strict rules or heavy service. And toy implies a degree of objectification in addition to sexual/BDSM use. But someone else might hear those terms and think something entirely different.

(in reply to ftmyersartist)

Post #: 71

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/13/2009 7:44:12 PM

alianora

Posts: 38
Status: offline

quote:

Do you have a substitute term for "slave"?

No, I don't. I have never run into the issues that you have raised here so I have never had to search for another term.

(in reply to MasterLark)

Post #: 72

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/14/2009 7:31:43 AM

hardbodysub

Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterLark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aszhrae

Which would you prefer a vanilla to hear:

I am in thralled by such and such (dominant). It is a play on words, but most would hear enthralled and thus thrall would be perceived as being in love and/or infatuated towards the dominant.
I am in slaved by such and such. Just means what is states, that the slave is a slave, which of course leads to nonacceptance, scrutiny and criticism.

I personally, if I were collared by another dominant. I would prefer to use 'thrall' as it seems to be a word of larger acceptance than 'slave'.

You may be on to something.

en·thrall (n-thrôl)
tr.v. en·thralled, en·thrall·ing, en·thralls
1. To hold spellbound; captivate: The magic show enthralled the audience.
2. To enslave.
[Middle English, to put in bondage : en-, causative pref.; see en-1 + thrall, slave; see thrall.]

I also love the idea of using "thrall" instead of slave. To me, "thrall" conveys exactly the right idea.

(in reply to MasterLark)

Post #: 73

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/14/2009 7:46:23 AM

feydeplume

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/24/2008
Status: offline

Funny slip up... My master accidentally introduced me to his new boss as "my slave" and we both had to back peddle and make a joke of it REALLY fast. He went on to call me his ball and *wait a beat* chain and his wifey-poo.

I have often heard "woman" or "man" used in place of "slave" in public, btw.

_____________________________

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(in reply to hardbodysub)

Post #: 74

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/14/2009 7:51:11 AM

Amaros

Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline

Again, the only real problem with the term Slave is that it has a wholly different meaning outside the community, one that is the polar opposite of what it means inside the community, i.e., outside BDSM it strictly refers to being treated as property in non-consensual way, and is universally held in democratic societies to be and unqualifed negative, and highly illegal, so if someone outside the community hears you saying it, the potential for mistaken assumptions is high depending on who overhears it, and you should be aware of that for the sake of protecting the community.

The idea of being owned without choice or option is also, of course, what gives it that special meaning in BDSM, i.e., the total surrender of ones will to another, it's role immersion, but it is a surrender, thus not technically, slavery, you cannot legally surrender your constitutional rights - it's a fine line, but not everyone has good eyesight, and some on either side prefer to close their eyes entirely.

If you want to call yourself a slave, I'm down with it, and I think what we're talking about here is more about the use of the term in public, including here, in what are essentially, public forums.

(in reply to alianora)

Post #: 75

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/14/2009 12:15:07 PM

cubletMS

Posts: 28
Joined: 1/3/2009
Status: offline

i agree with the point brought up by yourMissTress. i think most newbies to BDSM will have picked up enough and have enough intuition, purely because they are interested, to know that 'slave' means something different in BDSM than the connotations it may have in the wider world.

i think the majority will react like i did and like yourMissTress mentioned- either "wow that's me!" or "i might feel submissive but i am certainly no slave!"

in answer to the idea of another term for public- what exactly do you mean? A name that people you don't know are gonna overhear? Like in a shop or something? In which case i guess that depends on how self conscious you are and how private you like to keep your lifestyle.
But if you mean a different name to use when introducing to a vanilla? Then maybe something like "My girl" or "My woman"- suggests dominance but not in a way that shoves it down their throat. Or when trying to briefly explain to one without scaring the shit outta them? i would think 'submissive' would probably be the best idea in that instance.

in terms of O/our relationship- Master calls me slave but to be honest this is mostly in a play context. In that context also many others (slut, cunt, whore, bitch *trembles*). Day to day? He will call me sub, little girl, cub, little one, littlecub, sweet girl and more often than not... moomintroll (don't ask!) all of which i find preferable to slave. They are all just labels to describe something i am inside anyway *happy smiles*
cublet(MS)

(in reply to MasterLark)

Post #: 76

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/14/2009 7:38:16 PM

MasterLark

Posts: 249
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sheezamystry

i will never be a sl@ve, because of the historical meaning of the word. i would adore having another word that would work for those who feel they have a sl's heart etc.

Great idea, not so much for talking to nonkinksters, but for the way it makes me feel to hear/read/use that word. ... (veryyyyyyyy sensitive to words--more than canes!). i do know folks who use the word blithely, and some of course who feel deeply that the word works, but...

Good thread, thanks,
mystry

So those who have no issue with using slave, there's no issue. No problem.

Set aside what term one uses for when in public (beyond cm etc) and for speaking with vanillas. There are countless possibilities there.

Is there a term for mystry and others who readily acknowledge and express their submissiveness but recoil at the historical negative connotation of the word "slave" -- as mystry says-- "i will never be a sl@ve, because of the historical meaning of the word. i would adore having another word that would work for those who feel they have a sl's heart etc." she would adore another word. thrall? bondmaid/bondman? captive?

Again this isn't about debating what a sub or slave is, just wondering if there is another term for slave that may be more enticing for some.

(in reply to sheezamystry)

Post #: 77

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/14/2009 8:06:18 PM

NCNutCase

Posts: 129
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline

I'm a huge fan of using words per their widely accepted definitions... it just makes communication easier... so for that reason I do not use the term slave and would be happier if other's didn't either, yet I have no passion behind this preference...

When friends/family find out I'm a part of this lifestyle, people misusing such words has caused me a lot of judgement. We would have a lot less trouble presenting this lifestyle as a respectable form of relationships if we didn't misuse terms like this...

To other's, I refer to my girl simply as 'my girl'. I feel no need to fully describe the dynamics of our relationship in my title for her, nor do I feel there is any simple title that could do so.

On a personal level, I've had a lot of different words I chose to call my girl (of the time) in private. But in public I tend to use words such as "baby" or "darling"... When I'm unhappy with her I then simply use her first name...

I'm acceptionally annoyed by people who are overly eager to refer to themselves as slave who have never been in a dynamic real life SM relationship...

(in reply to MasterLark)

Post #: 78

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/15/2009 9:58:45 PM

sheezamystry

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/28/2008
Status: offline

hmmm M Lark, thank You for taking my own word aprehension seriously. Most kind. i like the 'thrall' word.. kinda reminds me of the tons of fantasy/scifi books i read once upon a time, and not in a bad way! As for bondmaid, how about i get to be a bond girl?

giggles,
mystry

(in reply to NCNutCase)

Post #: 79

RE: Substitute term for "slave" - 1/16/2009 12:21:08 AM

Calandra

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

We must have the same Grandma... Mine used to say the exact same thing!

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(in reply to yourMissTress)

Post #: 80

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