RE: Gaza/Israel situation

RE: Gaza/Israel situation (Full Version)

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RCdc -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/12/2009 3:18:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro The display of an Isreali flag or Star of David is not a crime. One would have to be some sort of clarvoiant or facist to be able to decide what the person meant by displaying the flag. Heck, it could be art. It could be Irony. It could be solidarity with Isreal. It could be support for the UN which created the state of Isreal. It could be lots of things. And you bet flying a pirate flag instead of a legal flag on a ship will get you into a heck of a lot of trouble, everywhere in the world. Again, that is a real law. Not the whim of a cop. Or appeasement of a mob. Well to be exact, if you were in the UK, hanging any flag would be a crime without the correct permissions. Whether the same exists elsewhere, I cannot say and you would hav to check your local country, state and local laws. However, in the UK, it can get you a fine or even imprisonment. Again, real law. the.dark.

Termyn8or -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/12/2009 3:51:39 PM)
OK boi, oh wise one. You have the right to tear into me for not having the answer handy to your question, therefore you must have the answer. Care to share it ? I have freely admitted to not having the answer. I now await the correct answer from you. T

piratecommander -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/12/2009 3:55:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro Anti Semetism has been a rare occurance Several Europeon nations have actuall laws banning the display of certain symbols. I would assume that to enter a home to look for Nazi paraphanalia the german police would require a warrant The display of an Isreali flag or Star of David is not a crime. One would have to be some sort of clarvoiant or facist to be able to decide what the person meant by displaying the flag. Heck, it could be art. It could be Irony. It could be solidarity with Isreal. It could be support for the UN which created the state of Isreal. It could be lots of things. And you bet flying a pirate flag instead of a legal flag on a ship will get you into a heck of a lot of trouble, everywhere in the world. Again, that is a real law Anti Semetism has indeed been a rare occurance , most of the time you have spelt it correctly You use the word several , without naming any , yet you call on others to give examples , I find that curious Assumption can be the mother of all fuck ups The display of any flag can be a crime in Deutschland and I wouldn't be surprised if you say you are unaware of the law there On the subject of Pirate flags ...... there are many codes and colours , even the US Navy use them. So as you refer to maritime piracy , which is not my current field (my comment was clearly dry-land related), the only thing I will say is that legality is a vast area of dispute at sea . What constitutes a "real law" at sea ? Who's law ? Pirate

Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/12/2009 4:14:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KaineD Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Anyone wanna have a stab at talking about why Israel is using phosphorous bombs and uranium depleted shells (both illegal chemical weapons outlawed by international war conventions) ? Want to back that one up ? Willie Pete and DU are used , We use DU because of the density and mass. and if the palies dont want to eat DU and W/p they can leave the juice alone and problem will be solved.

KaineD -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/12/2009 4:28:38 PM)
quote: Want to back that one up ? Willie Pete and DU are used , We use DU because of the density and mass. and if the palies dont want to eat DU and W/p they can leave the juice alone and problem will be solved. "Leave the juice alone"? What does that even mean? I had read on some articles somewhere that white phosphorus and depleted uranium were illegal under international law. It's possible I've got that one wrong as I've seen other articles that say they're not, but that WP is restricted in its use against civilians, and DU is very frowned upon, being a chemical weapon and all, and there are only a few nations that use it, and Saddam Hussein was criticized for its use. It just seems to me that if the IDF are using chemical weapons, then they aren't as interested in avoiding unnecassary civilian suffering as they claim to be.

Termyn8or -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/12/2009 4:47:38 PM)
Perhaps the juice from the olives, which are now on the other side of a security fence. T

Aneirin -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/12/2009 5:37:48 PM)
Maybe the final move by the Israeli, is yet another land grab,no doubt the best land available to them, after that, they will continue to do what they please, as the world seems not to care, that is being proved.

Termyn8or -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/12/2009 7:20:41 PM)
An, step outside of the box. Anyone with ambition to become say a head of state, has the same ambition to rule the world. England, the US, Israel, and a whole lot of others would like to have colonies all over the planet, such as in the past they might boast that "The sun never sets on the British empire", and such. We will never understand it completely, but the problem is that many do not even know such types of ambition exist. It is also incurable and insatiable. Unless you are born into it you will never understand completely, and I don't claim to, I am simply aware of it and it's "symptoms". T

JustDarkness -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 3:01:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: piratecommander quote: ORIGINAL: JustDarkness quote: Europe disliked the Jews Is it...we blame the Europeans week? It seems very much so JD , I find it quite sinister Pirate yes agree..the dark forces hover above us. But we handle ;) quote: seeing German police tearing down Jewish symbols, is kind of painfull, also. I can understand your feelings too.

MzDesiderata -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 3:20:40 AM)
quote: f it were any other nation than Israel doing this, the international condemnation would be a lot louder, and we would not have the deafening silence from the US. quote: ORIGINAL: JustDarkness If it was any other country besides Israel that was having rockets tossed into their civilian communities for 8 years something would have been done long before this, Israel tried peace measures, removing Israelis from their home in the strip and handing it over to the palestinians, they also tried sanctions, and still the rockets kept coming, and weapons kept getting smuggled in, and now they can reach farther and do more damage, how long would you like Israel to wait, where was the UNs concern while daily life in southern Israel has been destroyed for years? Civilian casualties are never welcome, and Israel sends blanket text messages to civilians in gaza warning them of areas to stay away from and drops pamphlets, even though this makes the operations more risky for the IDF by giving Hamas a heads up on their plan, they do not want civilians involved but what choice do they have when Hamas uses them as human shields? Where is their concern for palestinians when they hide their top officials in maternity wards and stock pile their weapons in civilian neighborhoods? Egypt offered to open a refugee camp for civilians and Hamas would only allow civilians to cross if Hamas operatives were allowed also and Egypt refused....so who is to blame? You tell me.

MzDesiderata -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 3:37:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Maybe the final move by the Israeli, is yet another land grab,no doubt the best land available to them, after that, they will continue to do what they please, as the world seems not to care, that is being proved. Have you ever been to Israel? the strip is a 32 km long, 10 km wide piece of land on the med bordering Egypt, Israel voluntarily gave it to the palestinians in an attempt for peace in southern Israel, which did not work, they continued to bombard the south with rockets. It is no way the best land in Israel, it is situated in the Negev region and if Israel was not willing to live without it they would not have removed themselves from it in the first place looking for peace. This is not a land grab, this is about trying to restore the chance at a peaceful life for those who live in the surrounding neighborhoods of the southern end of Israel.

RealityLicks -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 4:59:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzDesiderata It is no way the best land in Israel, it is situated in the Negev region and if Israel was not willing to live without it they would not have removed themselves from it in the first place looking for peace. This is not a land grab, this is about trying to restore the chance at a peaceful life for those who live in the surrounding neighborhoods of the southern end of Israel. Of the 1.4 million Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip, 1 million are refugees - mostly from the 1948 conflict. They used to live in better, more fertile areas but were driven away. (I think that's where the land grab comes in.) Effectively, it's a massive prison camp. The Israelis bombed the port and the airport years ago, so that they could prevent what and who goes in and out. They preceded the current conflict by restricting medical supplies for months. You can remove someone's freedoms and send settlers into their homes, you can imprison and shell them for decades, even centuries but the new generation will continue to demand freedom. It used to be called the "human spirit" but whatever it is, it's unquenchable by the application of jackboots.The long -term solution can only be found by talking but Israel refuses to talk to Hamas. This attack cannot achieve anything and only guarantees having to go in again and again. What other point is there? Revenge perhaps? Even if you kill every member of Hamas, there is still Al Aqsa Brigades, Islamic Jihad, Fatah - all of whom are still firing mortars.By the way, there is just as much evidence for the IDF using civilians as human shields as there is for Hamas. The only difference is that Hamas don't subsequently shell the human shields.

thishereboi -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 7:19:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or OK boi, oh wise one. You have the right to tear into me for not having the answer handy to your question, therefore you must have the answer. Care to share it ? I have freely admitted to not having the answer. I now await the correct answer from you. T The question was basically where did you come up with all the bs in your post and do you really expect us to believe it. You can't answer that, but you expect me to?

thishereboi -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 7:23:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Maybe the final move by the Israeli, is yet another land grab,no doubt the best land available to them, after that, they will continue to do what they please, as the world seems not to care, that is being proved. Hamas is hoping if they keep hiding behind women and children, that the rest of the world will slowly shift to their side. That is why they won't stop firing rockets, because they don't want the fighting to stop. They want the rest of the world to turn on Israel and help them wipe them off the map. I always thought this was kinda stupid, because I didn't think people would fall for that, but obviously I was wrong.

djgr75 -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 7:24:26 AM)
OFFICIAL UN FIGURES: 80% OF GAZANS ARE CLASSED AS REFUGEES KICKED OUT OF THEIR HOMES AND LAND IN SOUTHERN ISRAEL FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HUMAN HISTORY PEOPLE ARE BEING HELD IN A CONFINED AREA, REFUSED THE ABILITY TO LEAVE A WAR ZONE, EFFECTIVELY IMPRISONED AND BOMBED 6 MONTH TRUCE, HEAVY EMBARGO AND BLOCKADE, THE PEOPLE WERE STARVED OF FOOD AND MEDICINES, WATER AND ELECTRICITY, INDEPENDENT AGENCIES HAVE DECLARED MANY TIMES BEFORE AND DURING THE WAR THAT THERE IS A HUGE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS, ISRAEL HAS LAUGHABLY DENIED THIS ATTEMPTS TO GET AID IN WERE CONTINOUSLY BLOCKED IT WAS DECLARED BY THE UN AS THE GREATEST HUMANITARIAN DISASTER ON EARTH IN ONE OF THE LAST INCIDENTS, A BOAT CARRYING HUMANITARIAN AID FOR GAZA AND CONTAINING HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS INCLUDING FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA MCKINNEY WAS RAMMED BY THE ISRAELIS, AS THEIR BOAT BEGAN TO SINK THEY WERE RESCUED BY THE LEBANESE NAVY BE CLEAR ON THIS: IN THE 6 MONTH TRUCE HAMAS AGREED NOT TO FIRE A ROCKET INTO ISRAEL, IN RETURN ISRAEL WOULD LIFT THE BLOCKADE! HAMAS NEVER FIRED A ROCKET AND ISRAEL INTENSIFIED ITS BLACKADE ISRAEL BROKE THE TRUCE FIRST IN TWO WAYS, FIRSTLY INSTEAD OF LIFTING THE BLOCKADE AS THEY HAD AGREED TO DO IN THE TRUCE THEY INSTENSIFIED IT AND AS THE PEOPLE STARVED THEY THEN BROKE THE CEASE FIRE SECONDLY BY ENTERING GAZA ON NOVEMBER THE FOURTH AND KILLING 6 MILITANTS FACT! A MEMBER OF ISRAELI PARLIAMENT STATED IN AN INTERVIEW ON JANUARY THE 8TH 2009 THAT “ISRAEL HAD BEEN PLANNING AN INVASION OF GAZA FOR 9 MONTHS”, EVEN GOING TO THE LENGTHS OF BUILDING A MODEL OF GAZA IN THE DESSERT – IT WOULD SEEM ISRAEL ENTERED A TRUCE WITH NO INTENTION OF AGREEING TO IT IN A STRANGE COINCIDENCE ISRAEL HAS AN ELECTION IN FEB AND PEOPLE ARE CHASING VOTES ALSO OBAMA TAKES OFFICE ON THE TWENTIETH AND HE MAY BE LESS SYMAPTHETIC TO A CONFLICT, IT SEEMS THE GAZAN PEOPLE ARE AT THE MERCY OF A CALENDAR SOME FACTS ABOUT HAMAS: HAMAS HAS BACKED AN ARAB PEACE PLAN PLEDGING TO END ALL ATTACKS ON ISRAEL IN RETURN FOR THEM RETURNING (AS LAID OUT IN INTERNATIONAL LAW) TO 1967 BORDERS, THIS IS LAID OUT IN THE 2002 ARAB PEACE PLAN HAMAS WAS DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED IN 2005, INSTEAD OF GIVING TIME TO SEE HOW THIS WOULD PAN OUT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AND ISRAEL IMMEDIATELY PUT SANCTIONS ON GAZA IT IS CONTINUOUSLY SPOUTED OUT EVERYWHERE THAT HAMAS REFUSES ISRAELS RIGHT TO EXIST ETC, BUT DID YOU KNOW THAT WITHIN THE DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED ISRAELI PARLIAMENT THAT CERTAIN PARTIES AND POLICITICIANS BELIEVE THAT PALESTINIANS SHOULD BE ETHNICALLY CLEANSED FROM GAZA, WEST BANK, INFACT CHRISTIAN FUNDAMNENTALISTS IN USA, WHO MAKE UP THE MOST PART OF THE JEWISH LOBBY IN USA BELIEVE THAT THE FOR THE SECOND COMING TO HAPPEN THE STATE OF ISRAEL MUST BE PURE AND ARABS DRIVEN OUT. BENJAMIN NETANYAHU LEADER OF LIKUD PARTY DOES NOT BELIEVE IN A PALESTINIAN STATE. IN INCREDIBLE IRONY GAZA HAS BEEN COMPARED BY MANY NOW TO A CONCENTRATION CAMP, IN ANOTHER ANALOGY IN THE NAZI CONTROLLED POLISH WARSAW GHETTO JEWS WERE SUBJECTED TO COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT, A NAZI GUARD WAS ONE DAY ATTACKED BY ONE OF THE JEWISH RESIDENTS, THEY THEN LINED UP 53 JEWS AND SHOT THEM, WHATS THE DIFFERENCE HERE? THE ARGUMENT THAT HAMAS IS USING CIVILIANS AS A SHEILD IS A LIE, THERE HAS NEVER EVER BEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF THIS, IF HAMAS WERE GUILTY OF ALL THE EVIL DEEDS THAT ISRAEL ACCUSES THEM OFF, THEY WOULD BE RUSHING JOURNALISTS IN ASAP TO WITNESS THEM, INSTEAD THEY ARE KEEPING JOURNALISTS OUT HAMAS DOES NOT TARGET CIVILIANS, THEIR HOME MADE CRUDE GARBAGE ROCKETS, WHEN FIRED GO ABSOLUTELY ANYWHERE, AS HAMAS HAVE ALWAYS ARGUED, “GIVE US PROPER ROCKETS AND MISSILES AND WE CAN TARGET MILITARY POSITIONS” IN GENERAL REFUSAL TO TALK TO HAMAS IS STUPID, YOU MAKE PEACE WITH YOUR ENEMIES NOT WITH YOUR FRIENDS EVERY INDEPENDENT HUMANITARIAN AND HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANISATION, UN , AMNESTY, SOLIDARITY TO NAME BUT A FEW WITNESS AND UTTERLY CONDEMN ISRAEL FOR THEIR ACTIONS IN THE TREATMENT OF THE GAZANS, ARE THEY ALL LIARS? INTERNATIONAL DOCTORS AND SURGEONS FROM AS FAR AWAY AS NORWAY TOIL AGAINST ALL ODDS TO SAVE THE PEOPLE OF GAZA, WITNESSING THE MASSIVE CIVILIAN MASSACRE, THEY ARE LIARS TO? “THIS IS AN ALL OUT WAR ON THE CIVILIAN POPULATION OF GAZA, WE ARE WITNESSING THE MOST HORRENDOUS AND NEVER SEEN BEFORE INJURIES AND DEATHS, THE PEOPLE ARE CAGED AND CANNOT FLEE” MADS GILBERT WORKING IN GAZA, NORWEGIAN SURGEON, SERVED IN MANY WAR ZONES! LIAR ???? JUST AS THE VERY LATEST POWERFUL MASSIVE AMERICAN WEAPONS HAVE THE BLOOD POURING FROM THE CHILDREN OF GAZA , THE USA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES VOTES OVERWHELMINGLY IN FAVOUR OF ISRAEL, THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD TO GIVE SUCH AN UNWAVERING SUPPORT! THE WORLD WATCHES OPEN MOUTHED IN DISBELIEF IN THE WAR SO FAR: 884 KILLED 3860 INJURED 275 CHILDREN KILLED 1333 INJURED 93 women killed 587 injured 3 (KNOWN TO ISRAEL) UN SCHOOLS SHELLED, OVER 50 KILLED 110 GAZANS TOLD TO GO TO A HOUSE BY ISRAELI TROOPS, HOUSE THEN SHELLED 30 KILLED (UN calling it a war crime, go USA) 21 PARAMEDICS KILLED, AMBULANCES BOMBED, PARADMEDICS SHOT ISRAELI SNIPERS PICKED OFF CHILDREN AS THEY PLAYED FOUR CHILDREN FOUND BY RED CROSS CLINGING TO THEIR DEAD MOTHERS, PARAMEDICS AND RED CROSS WERE REFUSED ACCESS FOR MANY DAYS UN AID TRUCKS SHELLED AND DRIVER KILLED STILL AGAINST AN ISRAELI COURT RULING, THE ARMY REFUSES ACCESS TO JOURNALISTS ISRAEL IS NOW USING WHITE PHOSPHOROUS WEAPONS ON AREAS OF HEAVY CIVILIAN POPULATIONS, AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW, THE INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE BEING BURNED AMBULANCES CONTAINING CIVILIANS BEING MOVED TO EGYPT FOR EMERGENCY MEDICAL ATTENTION ARE BEING BLOCKED AND IMPEDED BY ISRAELI ARMY Oh ONE LAST THING TO ASK SUPPORTERS OF ISRAEL: 400 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BY ISRAELI TROOPS IN THE WEST BANK AREA IN THE LAST TWELVE MONHTS, THERE ARE 600 CHECKPOINTS MAKING IT HORRENDOUS TO MOVE IN THE AREA, ISRAEL HAS CONTINUED WITH ITS ILLEGAL SETTLEMENT BUILDING AND “BERLIN” WALL ON PALESTINIAN LAND, WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO TREAT THESE PEOPLE IN THIS MANNER? THERE ARE NOT ATTACKS ON ISRAEL FROM WEST BANK, NO ROCKETS AND NO HAMAS! SO WHY DO YOU MAKE PALESTINIANS LIVES IN THE WEST BANK SO MISERBALE, CONTINUE TO TAKE THEIR LAND AND GIVE THEM NOTHING!? AND DONE NOTHING TO BOLSTER THE MODERATE LEADER IN THE WEST BANK , INFACT MADE HIM LOOK WEAK AND PATHETIC!

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 7:43:50 AM)
There are so many falsehoods in the preceeding post that I won't even bother. Pointless. Hamas = good Jews = evil SOS.

djgr75 -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 7:45:42 AM)
only news organistation on the ground in gaza, pics imageshttp://english.aljazeera.net/ family murderedhttp://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/200911265248490862.html who will save israel?http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/war_on_gaza/2009/01/2009110112723260741.html israel tells america what to do!!!http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE50C20B20090113 israel is burning the people of gazahttp://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/01/2009110181945232797.html

beargonewild -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 7:52:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Just out of interest, what if Israel had not been located in Palestine, what if the refugees from Europe had been given land elsewhere, say the US, and as this new country grew, it required more land, what would be the response of the US inhabitants, if they were falling prey to land grabs by another country ? I'd bet my soul that this scenario would play out almost exactly to what is happening in the Middle East.

Termyn8or -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 8:04:10 AM)
"The question was basically where did you come up with all the bs in your post " Thanks for letting me off the hook to answer the question since you don't remember it. Your question was, at least on my screen - how long is it before someone is considered a Native. Not an exact quote, but close enough for government work. I actually considered it a very valid question, and figured it would be a good idea to find out just how long the current inhabitants of Palestine were there, pre-1948. This however would not answer the more philosophical aspect of the question, which was - how long does it take before you are considered a native, or Native as the case may be. But now the question seems to have changed. Now it is where did I get all the BS from. Is it BS that through military action a resident population was displaced in 1948 ? Was it BS that Israel went on a land grab in 1967 ? Are all the survivors of the USS Liberty, which was destroyed by the Israeli army even though we were supposedly allies, liars ? Is Racheal Corrie actually alive and well somewhere ? Do these things simply not register with you or something ? Is the fact that the media is not allowed in the west bank or whatever not a sign of deception, or do you trust these people implicitly. Do you trust your own government and media implicitly ? Soory boi, but in accusing me of dodging, you seem to have turned your own question into a metaphor, I don't answer metaphors. I will answer some hypothetical questions, but that is as far as I go. So I will now disregard your previous, non-sequiter question and being fair, give you some time. Time to think your question out and ask it clearly and succinctly, one question, one static issue. I don't chase foul balls. T

Coldwarrior57 -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/13/2009 8:44:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KaineD quote: ORIGINAL: Coldwarrior57 During the cease fire and the rush to get aid into the strip, there was a truck full of UNIFORMS, now who wears uniforms in the Gaza strip? Do you have any links on this? here LAZY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCOxIHGk-l0 quote: So what if israel has killed 10 times or 1000000 times more of them then they have killed of her citizens. So much for basic human compassion. Israeli lives are not worth more than Palestinian lives. In the eyes of hamas YES quote: IF they keep screwing with israel I hope she kicks the CRAP out of them. She has been way to kind way too forgiving. Hmm, I wouldn't call an economic blockade kind, or carpet bombs in previous years forgiving. Carpet bombs? just what the hell is a carpet bomb? I have heard of cluster bombs , but NOT carpet bombs quote: I bet that if some one , a stranger was to walk into your home at any time they wanted to, with out your permission you would call the police or confront them. Hama's has attacked Israel time and time again, DON'T want the horns, DONT FUCK with the bull. Ironic that you put it like that, seeing as its the Israelis that are the occupiers. In your little metaphor, you should be agreeing with the Hamas side of things - they are confronting the people that have occupied their land. In reality again you are wrong , Jordan is sitting on the majoirty of disputed land, BUT because its an arab country that is denying them their land the other arabs are ok with that. you need to educate yourself. In your post, you don't comment once on Israel's use of illegal chemical weapons, or Israel's unlawful economic blockade, or Israel ignoring dozens of UN resolutions through the years, or Israel ignoring UN's call for Israel to ceasefire now, or Israel blocking media from entering Gaza. Your blind support is exactly the kind of mentality that needs to be challanged in this day and age. If this were Iran and not Israel doing this to another nation, people would be furious. are you that ignorant or are you just acting that way . illegal chem weps ? is that like your supposed carpet bombs? and in any war you BLOCKAID, you prevent your enemy from the ability to wage war!

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