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KaineD -> RE: Gaza/Israel situation (1/14/2009 12:40:17 PM)
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ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro
I have read every link you posted, wish you would do the same.
Carpet bombing. Show evidence that Isreal is engaging in it. you can't. You made it up. You posted some definitions this time, but none apply to what is occuring
The definition I supplied you...
To bomb in a systematic and extensive pattern, so as to devastate a large target area uniformly.
How would you describe the bombing of Gaza?
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I did make a small error. Phospuorus is also allowed to be used as smoke bombs, which is what the Isrealis are using it for, as well as illumination. Totally legal.
What about the accounts of Israeli shoulders that say they are using phosphorus shells?
Are you saying you know better than the Human Rights Watch, who say Israel has fired artillery shells with white phosphorus?
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Neither compares to your ridiculous claim that it is the same as using Chemical weopons on Civilians, ala Saddam Hussein.
The white phosphorus shells are being used in civilian areas, ]they are being used on civilians.
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Why do you have to keep making his stuff up, and using ridiculous sources? The truth doesn't fit your agenda? Some other reason?
Yeah, CBS, Timesonline, and BBC sure are some ridiculous news sources.
So, how about CNN?
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/12/white.phosphorus/index.html?iref=newssearch
HRW said the use of white phosphorus in Gaza would violate "the requirement under international humanitarian law to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian injury and loss of life."
Stop moving the goal posts.
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So to sum it up, you support Hamas' right to tunnell into Isreal...and consider that to be part of adhering to the cease fire.
Every link you pointed out says that the Isrealis responded with the border crossing, only harming Hamas militants. Everyone of them. Yet you keep insisting that Isreal broke the cease fire. If there were not lives at stake it would be funny.
Okay. Let's go through the link. Again.
http://bbsnews.net/article.php/20090101212318310
BBSNews 2009-01-01 -- By Michael Hess. Western press have recently and erroneously reported that Hamas broke a six month ceasefire even as most reported in November 2008 that Israel itself first broke the informal truce. In recent days Prime Minister Olmert has tied the end of the current attacks by Israel on Gaza to an international "monitoring" force to ensure that Hamas meets terms of a new ceasefire. Some of the early pre-strike tactics have been questioned by officials, and it is unlikely this latest conflict will resolve anything because it does not address the root cause, the ongoing occupations.
In this decades long occupation of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem there have been many lulls that lapse into tit for tat violence and then creep back into lulls again.
In the most recent case, Hamas and Israel came to an informal agreement in June 2008 where Hamas would halt rocket fire and reign in various militant factions in the Strip while at the same time opening border crossings. Instead, Hamas largely kept the ceasefire and the crossings never opened except for the most sporadic of instances and the humanitarian crisis deepened in Gaza.
You see that? The crossing never opened except for the most sporadic of instances. I'll continue...
Western press in light of the most recent assault on Gaza seem to have forgotten who broke the truce and are erroneously attributing the end of the ceasefire to either rockets and or the expiration of the original agreement.
Hagada Hasmalit provided an analysis of of articles describing the breakdown of the ceasefire and who was responsible and also took the New York Times to task for the devolving reportage during this most recent spate of violence. Viewing the timeline of news reporting from November 4-15, 2008 it becomes crystal clear that Israel broke the ceasefire.
In one of the first stories on the breakdown of the ceasefire the Independent posted a story entitled 'Massive' rocket attack launched on Israel and reported the following:
"Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip fired more than 35 rockets towards Israel today, the army and the Islamist group said, hours after the Israeli army killed six militants in the coastal territory.
An Israeli police spokesman said the rockets landed in southern Israel, causing no damage or injuries.
Hamas claimed responsibility for the attacks, the first such announcement by the Islamist group since an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire with Israel went into effect on June 19."
I think that's what's causing you confusion.
The Guardian headline read Hamas fires rockets after Israel kills six in Gaza and they reported:
"Hamas militants fired more than 35 rockets into Israel today, hours after the Israeli army killed six people in the Gaza Strip in the first major exchange of fire since a truce took effect in June."
The Times reported Six die in Israeli attack over Hamas 'tunnel under border to kidnap soldier':
"A five-month truce between Israel and the Islamist rulers of the Gaza Strip was foundering yesterday after Israeli special forces entered the besieged territory and fought Hamas militants, leaving six Palestinian fighters dead and four Israeli soldiers wounded."
Yedioth also covered the breakdown of the ceasefire in a piece headlined IDF leaves Gaza after op, 6 gunmen killed:
"For the first time since the ceasefire took effect in June, IDF forces operated deep in the Gaza Strip Tuesday night in a bid to collapse a tunnel located 250 meters (273 yards) from the border – and which terror groups intended to use for kidnapping Israeli soldiers."
Haaretz reported the story with a headline entitled IDF kills Hamas man in Gaza clash:
"Israel Defense Forces troops yesterday killed a Hamas gunman and wounded two others in the first armed clash in the Gaza Strip since a cease-fire was declared there in June ... Since the cease-fire, the IDF has launched frequent raids across the fence, albeit smaller in scale. The IDF is apparently interested in keeping these incursions low-profile, and they receive little attention in the Israeli media. Additionally, raids tend to be limited to addressing 'immediate threats,' as defined by the IDF."
Ah, so Israel were continuing frequent raids during the ceasefire. So the Israeli claim that the ceasefire was under thrreat when Hamas supposedly were going to kidnap soldiers isn't the whole story.
The New York Times weighed in during mid-December with this article Deadly Gaza Border Clash Threatens Truce:
"At least six Palestinian militants were killed in a clash and an Israeli airstrike on Nov. 4 after an Israeli force entered Gaza for the first time in five months to destroy a tunnel Israel said it believed was intended for use in the abduction of soldiers."
"The confrontations, following five months of relative calm, began to spike this month when the Israeli military destroyed a tunnel being dug toward Israel ... The Israelis said it was an isolated operation, not a violation of the cease-fire agreed to in June, and asked Egypt to pass that message to Hamas in advance. But six Hamas militants were killed during the tunnel’s destruction, leading Hamas to retaliate with rockets, which led to more closings and operations and then more rockets."
Also in the same link,
UN evidence that there was a semi-official lull
An AP story said "Karen Abu Zayd, commissioner of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) which helps Palestinian refugees, raised the possible violation of an informal truce in a video press conference with U.N. reporters from her base in Gaza."
"'What we understood here (was) that there was a 48-hour lull to be called, and this was called by the Israelis,' Abu Zayd said. 'They said they would wait 48 hours. That was on Friday morning, I believe, until Sunday morning, and that they were going to evaluate.'"
Another link that says it was Israel that broke the ceasefire.
http://mathaba.net/news/?x=615497
CNN says Israel broke the ceasefire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KntmpoRXFX4
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