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More on German human rights... - 1/11/2009 11:37:09 PM

ArticMaestro

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A while back we did a thread on how the Germans and the ECHR, don't really care about torturing a criminal defendant, if they know he is a really bad guy (even though no trial has been held). This is even worse. Apperanly now in German Police will break into people's homes to remove things, if a mob outside demands it.

Interesting story. A pro Palestinian Demostration of about 10,000 people in Germany began attacking an apartment building becase an Isreali Flag was in a window. Instead of dispersing the crowd for violence (after they began attacking the building) The Police broke in and took the flag down. Film and story here. http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/01/german-police-rip-down-israeli-flag-to.html

Why is that acceptable in Europe?

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/11/2009 11:45:06 PM

BbwCanaDomme

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I don't think it's so much that it's acceptable in Europe, as they were trying to defuse the situation. I didn't click the link, but if I were someone in that apartment building, I would sincerely hope the police would do the same thing. No flag is worth potentially dying for, and if they thought removing the flag would calm down a mob of 10 000 people, it was absolutely be the right course of action.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 12:49:07 AM

NeedToUseYou

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Wow, that's disgusting, apparently the criminal mob is in control of Germany. Seriously, from the little blurb, this was nothing more than displaying a countries flag, and a mob of fascist pricks start mobbing, throwing shit at the flag. The cowardly police faced with a decision to bow to mob pressure or violate someones dwelling and hamper their right to display a legal, symbol. Yet the mob which undoubtedly was breaking the law by mobbing, and supposedly throwing shit, gets catered to.

LOL, insane.

Wow, anyway, looks like Germany is caving to extremism once again, and much of Europe for that matter, the US is not far behind mind you on this front, a glimpse of our own stupidity laden future in that clip.

The point of this is not whether it be a flag, a cross, an affiliation, a race, a religion, the point is that a disgruntled mob, can demand legal displays be removed by threat of violence and suppress other peoples rights at will. That's disgusting, and the exact situation a government worth anything is supposed to protect its citizens against. .

Sorry, I have tried to see the Islamic perspective, and give the benefit of the doubt that it is not a disproportionately hostile religion, but all evidence points to the fact that in most places at least a measurable minority can not act in a civilized manner, and think threats of violence, and special treatment are their birthright.

I mean it's just stupid, they riot over a cartoon, they mob an apartment over a fucking flag. It's completely juvenile. IMO, the least respectable of all religions when viewed as a whole. I don't like Israel either by the way, but that video makes the drones look stupid, and makes the German authority look weak as hell.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 1:28:48 AM

ArticMaestro

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BBW canadomme, remember that when a kink hating mob comes to take away your right of free expression....

How can you say its not so much as acceptable? They did it.

The law entered and took with no warrant...to appease a mob.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 1:59:46 AM

BbwCanaDomme

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro

BBW canadomme, remember that when a kink hating mob comes to take away your right of free expression....

How can you say its not so much as acceptable? They did it.

The law entered and took with no warrant...to appease a mob.

If my freedom of expression is putting other people in my building at risk; go for it. Seriously. I would not be upset. I would probably have the good sense to take it down before police had to intervene though.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 2:56:58 AM

ArticMaestro

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Is it the symbol that is the problem or the violent mob shouting religious slogans? So you won't mind having your kink taken away to appease a religious mob?

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 3:08:07 AM

BbwCanaDomme

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro

Is it the symbol that is the problem or the violent mob shouting religious slogans? So you won't mind having your kink taken away to appease a religious mob?

Hell, I'd give up kink for a lot less than that, it's not a huge part of my life, and it's significantly less important that the symbolism of the israeli flag. Not only that, I wouldn't have my kink on display in the window. Again, my political/religious opinions are much less important than the safety of thousands of people. I would still be fine with it.

While ideally protests would be better handled and there wouldn't be a mob to begin with, I still see nothing wrong with the actions of the police.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 3:23:39 AM

ArticMaestro

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well there you go....I guess we shall have to agree to disagree. Not sure where you see thousands of lives at risk in the cited instance though. So one person thinks that warrants or court orders are unneccessary, any other comments on it?

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 3:25:11 AM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BbwCanaDomme

quote:

ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro

Is it the symbol that is the problem or the violent mob shouting religious slogans? So you won't mind having your kink taken away to appease a religious mob?

Hell, I'd give up kink for a lot less than that, it's not a huge part of my life, and it's significantly less important that the symbolism of the israeli flag. Not only that, I wouldn't have my kink on display in the window. Again, my political/religious opinions are much less important than the safety of thousands of people. I would still be fine with it.

While ideally protests would be better handled and there wouldn't be a mob to begin with, I still see nothing wrong with the actions of the police.

Sheep Slave mentality. So you only care if they take something you care about? The fact that they took something that they had no right to is cool? As long as it's something insignificant? Well this time anyway.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 3:38:29 AM

BbwCanaDomme

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

Sheep Slave mentality. So you only care if they take something you care about? The fact that they took something that they had no right to is cool? As long as it's something insignificant? Well this time anyway.

Again, even if it were something significant, if thousands of people were attacking a building, where I was not the only resident, and taking an item out of view would make them calm down, I don't have an issue with it.

Call it whatever you want kiddo, but I was raised to believe that peoples safety trumps everything else. I can see where both sides are coming from, and I think it's really shitty that they had to take down the flag, but no one was hurt. In exigent circumstances, like when they think there is an immediate danger present, a warrant isn't necessary (in the states anyways, I'm assuming there's something similar in Germany).

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 3:53:22 AM

Hippiekinkster

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I agree with Canadomme, and I am pro-Israel. The immediate problem is how to keep the peace. The Polizei did it in the fastest, most sensible way possible. I've spent some time in Deutschland, and I don't mean being stationed at Rammstein and going into town to drink beer being my only contact with the People (damn near all of the people who have served in Germany in the military that I have met can't speak a word of German. They might as well have been at Ft. Bragg). Germans don't have the same view of "Free Speech" that we have.

I can see this is futile.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 4:05:53 AM

pahunkboy

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well that looks like a psy op to me.

a convenient 'diss .

the person posting the flag antagonized the public. everyone knows this is a heated issue right now. but the crowd was duped. they fell for it. they gave attention to this stunt where they might have just ignored it and the poster.

in a place like Germany, being the halocaust, that flag can only be seen as inflamatory. yet the public went for the stunt.

mob rule is not good. but the matter would be far worse if the poster was bodily harmed over the flag.
so in a strange way the police did what they had to - in order to diffuse the moment.

it sure seems hypocrite that Israel who always claims to be a victim, is meting out harm to others, a harm which is earlier said the world is to condemn. they cant have it both ways. can you say egg on face?

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 5:17:20 AM

servantheart

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IMO the mob people need to learn tolerance for the rights of others since they expect (demand) the same. THAT'S hypocrisy.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 5:24:11 AM

pahunkboy

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but why invite unwanted attention?

the flag poster knew what he was doing. antagonizing. drawing a spot light to him.
...yelling fire in a crowded theator.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 6:00:49 AM

piratecommander

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro

Why is that acceptable in Europe?

I didn't see anything about it being acceptable.

Also , this is in Deutschland , which is not Europe

Pirate

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 6:06:51 AM

DarkSteven

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Something smells. Per Wikipedia, the pop of Duisberg is 500K. So either 20% of the entire population showed up, or else the demonstration attracted people from all around. I know that here in the States, a demonstration of 10K is a LOT.

The claim is that the police removed the flag. I watched the video and it is very poor quality - clearly a flag is being removed, but there is no proof it was done by police.

If you have a third floor apartment and can oversee the demonstration, why would you go out onto the street, on the other side from your building?

My take is that someone knew there'd be a demonstration and planted the flag and removed it themself, while an accomplice videotaped. Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist, but... this just doesn't sound right. Too planted.

Edited to add: and the Gateway Pundit seems to be a somewhat flaky source.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 1/12/2009 6:08:18 AM >

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 6:09:28 AM

Lynnxz

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Meh, even if it was the police, if you have the choice of taking down a flag, or trying to control a riot of 10k... I'd say the flag is the easiest route to go.

Not saying it was right, but still...

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 8:57:45 AM

JustDarkness

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at OP

In Europe it is normal to take away things that cause or might cause problems.
At that time the flag might have been seen as a possible spark for escalation.

German is a very decent country..with also mistakes ofcourse. Please visit it....and then rejudge.
YOu make it sound like WW2 never ended.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 12:44:14 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro

A while back we did a thread on how the Germans and the ECHR, don't really care about torturing a criminal defendant, if they know he is a really bad guy (even though no trial has been held). This is even worse. Apperanly now in German Police will break into people's homes to remove things, if a mob outside demands it.

Interesting story. A pro Palestinian Demostration of about 10,000 people in Germany began attacking an apartment building becase an Isreali Flag was in a window. Instead of dispersing the crowd for violence (after they began attacking the building) The Police broke in and took the flag down. Film and story here. http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/01/german-police-rip-down-israeli-flag-to.html

Why is that acceptable in Europe?

This shouldn't come as a surprise, but I have a feeling it will.

1) Germany: nation of Germans, a land where the mullet is a national obsession, 80 million inhabitants, located in central Europe.

2) Europe: a big fucking place, with many constituent parts - Spaniards, Greeks, Scots, Poles etc - all with their own culture and heritage, a continent.

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RE: More on German human rights... - 1/12/2009 1:43:32 PM

ArticMaestro

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I have been to Germany. Sure it was a nice place, pretty castles built by peasant serfs, paid for by plundering the world. Sure Germans did more trading for stolen loot, than actuall looting....Is the fence innoccent of the crime? Not a lot of trees.

It would be going way overboard to claim that this event is like the Nazis. And I never made that claim. But certainly the use of mobs was part of The Nazis rise to power. And the surrenduring to the mob is what got Hitler absolute power. I have a reflex action of not supporting it.

Its odd to me that Europeons get so proud of the Europeon Court of Human rights, and thier other trade and legal Unity orginizations. The EU, Interpol, ect. But then get all pissy when you point out there are Laws and Treaties regulating things like free expression, human rights, that they themselves name as "europeon". Its like they want it both ways.

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