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RE: Sharing with another - 1/23/2009 8:50:57 AM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		I find one attempting to tell another what they should regard as sacred or judging their idea of sacred as wrong, less than, or any other negative expression the height of oppression.  The imposition of oppression generally stems from insecurity or covetousness of that which one has that another desires. 
When I use the word sacred, I use it with absolute correctness and with a spiritual reverence.  Sex (For me, with a person who I have a particular bond with, though I'll not degrade someone who chooses a more prolific path if that is what their sense of sacredness and the consent of their partners allows) has the power to uplift, to amalgamate pieces into a whole greater than the sum of the parts, to transcend my perception of that which is worldly.  It is the closest I come to understanding god (I am god, thou art god, etc.) and I truly do regard sex as a fun, beautiful, and righteous form of worship and elevation. 
Davan

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 1/23/2009 8:55:31 AM >

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Sharing with another - 1/23/2009 12:09:15 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
Closest I've got to NuevaVida's aside is "respectfully dedicated to some person or object" - that ("respectfully") ain't any footy nut I've seen....

Actually the quote is "exclusively" not "respectfully." 

I'd have thought it obvious but that quote is directly from MY dictionary and not your post; actually.

quote:

So you have apparently decided what qualifies and what does not qualify to fulfill a person on a spiritual or "sacred" level?  You have decided that sex can not possibly be sacred to someone by way of their expression of it?  You disagree with the notion that people should be who they want? 

By all means do or be what you want in private but I don't see why one should be quietly and respectfully tolerant when posturing, pretentious malarky is plastered across a public board.  Absolutely I disagree with that notion!

quote:

It's your prerogative to believe or disbelieve what someone else finds sacred, but to stand on a pulpit and declare it absolutely ain't so...well...that's not a ministry I'll attend. 

Not a pulpit but a public message board for the expression of personal opinions.  I'd have thought that rather obvious, too....
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Sharing with another - 1/23/2009 12:26:39 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

I find one attempting to tell another what they should regard as sacred or judging their idea of sacred as wrong, less than, or any other negative expression the height of oppression.  The imposition of oppression generally stems from insecurity or covetousness of that which one has that another desires. 

When I start badgering LA (or anyone else) about how they live their lives then, yes, I'm being oppressive blah blah.  But that's an enormous mountain from my poking fun at a "mole hill" statement.

quote:

When I use the word sacred, I use it with absolute correctness and with a spiritual reverence.  Sex (For me, with a person who I have a particular bond with, though I'll not degrade someone who chooses a more prolific path if that is what their sense of sacredness and the consent of their partners allows) has the power to uplift, to amalgamate pieces into a whole greater than the sum of the parts, to transcend my perception of that which is worldly.  It is the closest I come to understanding god (I am god, thou art god, etc.) and I truly do regard sex as a fun, beautiful, and righteous form of worship and elevation. 
Davan

I can relate to this outside your qualification ("... I'll not degrade someone who chooses a more prolific path ...").  Perhaps your real problem is my inclination to call a spade a spade?  In which case, I'm not the only one "guilty" of being judgemental.
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Sharing with another - 1/23/2009 2:13:28 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

I find one attempting to tell another what they should regard as sacred or judging their idea of sacred as wrong, less than, or any other negative expression the height of oppression.  The imposition of oppression generally stems from insecurity or covetousness of that which one has that another desires. 

When I start badgering LA (or anyone else) about how they live their lives then, yes, I'm being oppressive blah blah.  But that's an enormous mountain from my poking fun at a "mole hill" statement.

quote:

When I use the word sacred, I use it with absolute correctness and with a spiritual reverence.  Sex (For me, with a person who I have a particular bond with, though I'll not degrade someone who chooses a more prolific path if that is what their sense of sacredness and the consent of their partners allows) has the power to uplift, to amalgamate pieces into a whole greater than the sum of the parts, to transcend my perception of that which is worldly.  It is the closest I come to understanding god (I am god, thou art god, etc.) and I truly do regard sex as a fun, beautiful, and righteous form of worship and elevation. 
Davan

I can relate to this outside your qualification ("... I'll not degrade someone who chooses a more prolific path ...").  Perhaps your real problem is my inclination to call a spade a spade?  In which case, I'm not the only one "guilty" of being judgemental.
 
Focus.


Clearly, your sense of humor is one that only you understand as has been demonstrated by the numerous responses that you have received to your various posts. 
Let me be abundantly clear: If someone chooses to have consentual, informed sex that they hold as sacred with 1 or 1,000+, you nor anyone other than those involved have any right to judge that it is sacred or not.  That is my point.  My qualification had no connotations that degrade, judge, or otherwise seek to impose my beliefs on others with differing ways of expressing themselves through sacred sex as you would suggest. 
I hope that is clear enough.  
Davan

< Message edited by DavanKael -- 1/23/2009 2:20:51 PM >

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Sharing with another - 1/23/2009 9:16:34 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		So Focus, if I am reading you correctly, you would dismiss the various aspects of sex magick or the use of sex in the performance of specific rites acceptable to alternative religious beliefs (of which I do have a wealth of documented precedents of this practice) as mere flim flam? I must ask then, who are y6ou to arbitrate between what some of us consider as sacred and the mainstream?  

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Sharing with another - 1/23/2009 9:20:35 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		And how is it, pretentious malarkey for her to say FOR HER, sex is sacred.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


By all means do or be what you want in private but I don't see why one should be quietly and respectfully tolerant when posturing, pretentious malarky is plastered across a public board.  Absolutely I disagree with that notion!


Focus.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Sharing with another - 1/23/2009 10:00:30 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I'd have thought it obvious but that quote is directly from MY dictionary and not your post; actually.

Assuming something is obvious always leaves great room for error.  Except I think you are using your "I'd have thought it obvious" in an insulting way.  No insult taken here, however.

quote:


By all means do or be what you want in private but I don't see why one should be quietly and respectfully tolerant when posturing, pretentious malarky is plastered across a public board.  Absolutely I disagree with that notion!

Oh ok so you are assuming her reasons for posting what she did.  Got it.  Does this mean that anyone else who posts about what they do in private is posturing?

quote:


Not a pulpit but a public message board for the expression of personal opinions.  I'd have thought that rather obvious, too....
 
Focus.


Well yes. it is obvious that this is a place for public opinions, which is why I find it so confusing that you are reacting with such hostility to just that - a personal opinion.

No matter, though. I can see this dialogue is not going to address my curiosity so I'll drop it.


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Sharing with another - 1/23/2009 10:01:51 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

So Focus, if I am reading you correctly, you would dismiss the various aspects of sex magick or the use of sex in the performance of specific rites acceptable to alternative religious beliefs (of which I do have a wealth of documented precedents of this practice) as mere flim flam? I must ask then, who are y6ou to arbitrate between what some of us consider as sacred and the mainstream?  


It seems it's ok to do it, as long as we don't talk about it. 


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Sharing with another - 1/23/2009 10:12:59 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Well you'd think after this many thousand posts people would get a feel for my character and motivations and would see that trying to be pretentious and get cool points is about the least likely of them.  I AM arrogant and I never get any cool points so it would be rather pointless. 

The good news is, Focus isn't pulling any punches.  So we all know where he stands and completely denies the reality of my existence and experience.  That's ok. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Sharing with another - 1/23/2009 10:23:07 PM   
DavanKael


Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline 		Apparently neither you nor I exist, LA (Nor do the others who have posted with their own assertions similar to ours).  :> 
I'm pretty okay with 'non-existence' by another's definition if their approach to my self-definition, particularly those things I hold most dear, is denigration.  At least if they pretend I don't exist, perhaps I needn't hear their repetitious bashing and minimization of insults...I'd prefer tolerance but in its absence, being ignored rather than someone attempting to oppress you, I, or anyone else who consensually does what they do is fine by me. 
  Davan

_____________________________

May you live as long as you wish & love as long as you live
-Robert A Heinlein

It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
-Me

Waiting is

170NZ (Aka:Sex God Du Jour) pts

Jesus,I've ALWAYS been a deviant
-Leadership527,Jeff

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Sharing with another - 1/24/2009 2:21:18 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Clearly, your sense of humor is one that only you understand as has been demonstrated by the numerous responses that you have received to your various posts. 
Let me be abundantly clear: If someone chooses to have consentual, informed sex that they hold as sacred with 1 or 1,000+, you nor anyone other than those involved have any right to judge that it is sacred or not.  That is my point.  My qualification had no connotations that degrade, judge, or otherwise seek to impose my beliefs on others with differing ways of expressing themselves through sacred sex as you would suggest. 
I hope that is clear enough.  

And round n round the merry-go-round goes....  <shrugs> 
 
Anytime you disagree with someone, you're making a judgement call - pure and simple!  Anytime you express a personal opinion, it's the formulation of judgements.  What I find comical in your arguments is that you think people should be better than that (making judgements) and you're convinced that YOU are above that, when the truth is we'd all be mindless drones if we didn't make judgements. 
 
I think you're being a raging hypocrite to say you're all respectful and non judgemental of others and their beliefs blah blah when that's exactly what you're doing (of me) in continuing to debate this "storm in a teacup".
 
If LA (or anyone) posted on a public board that the sky is typically green, the oceans are orange and scratching your arse causes global warming, what are YOU gonna say about that?
A)  That she's crazy or delusional etc.  Ergo, you're making a (*gasp*) judgement.
B)  Get all pious and attack the first person who does point that out while harping on about how you're all respectful and non judgemental of others.  Ergo, you're a hypoctite.
C)  Nothing at all because you don't stand for anything beyond a nauseating belief that anyone has the right to express any nonsense they want, untested or unchallenged, and the rest of us should, apparently, rally around like a bunch of misty eyed group huggers in celebration of their right to do so.
 
I read a statement that, TO ME, was a nonsense and I made light of it.  That's all that happened, but I'm up for it if you wanna keep on upping the ante here.  I rarely agree with LA anyhow but I still think she's a smart girl in general - at the risk of posting yet another judgement of her, indeed, of someone I've never even met.
 
Focus. 

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Sharing with another - 1/24/2009 2:25:25 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

So Focus, if I am reading you correctly, you would dismiss the various aspects of sex magick or the use of sex in the performance of specific rites acceptable to alternative religious beliefs (of which I do have a wealth of documented precedents of this practice) as mere flim flam? I must ask then, who are y6ou to arbitrate between what some of us consider as sacred and the mainstream?  

I see; it's alright for me to have and express an opinion as long as it's one you approve of?  Lol, good luck with that....
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Sharing with another - 1/24/2009 2:30:24 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

And how is it, pretentious malarkey for her to say FOR HER, sex is sacred.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


By all means do or be what you want in private but I don't see why one should be quietly and respectfully tolerant when posturing, pretentious malarky is plastered across a public board.  Absolutely I disagree with that notion!

Focus.


DavanKael expressed his own views of sex in a similar manner and I replied that I generally agreed.
 
Nice try though; taking what I wrote as a general characterisation about any kind of BS getting posted then applying it specifically to a context of your choosing then trying to hold me accountable for it.  
 
I'll let you get back to finding your credibility....
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to YourhandMyAss)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Sharing with another - 1/24/2009 2:49:14 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I'd have thought it obvious but that quote is directly from MY dictionary and not your post; actually.

Assuming something is obvious always leaves great room for error.  Except I think you are using your "I'd have thought it obvious" in an insulting way.  No insult taken here, however.

The error was yours, as is the persecution complex....

quote:

quote:


By all means do or be what you want in private but I don't see why one should be quietly and respectfully tolerant when posturing, pretentious malarky is plastered across a public board.  Absolutely I disagree with that notion!

Oh ok so you are assuming her reasons for posting what she did.  Got it.  Does this mean that anyone else who posts about what they do in private is posturing?

Already covered that with YourhandMyAss.

quote:

quote:


Not a pulpit but a public message board for the expression of personal opinions.  I'd have thought that rather obvious, too....
 
Focus.

Well yes. it is obvious that this is a place for public opinions, which is why I find it so confusing that you are reacting with such hostility to just that - a personal opinion.

No matter, though. I can see this dialogue is not going to address my curiosity so I'll drop it.

Lol, hostility?  I've giving what I'm getting and having a good time ta boot....  Maybe I'm just better at adversarial situations, esp when the wagons have circled against my lone injun on the hill....  :D
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Sharing with another - 1/24/2009 2:58:12 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

I'm pretty okay with 'non-existence'.... <snip>  
Davan

How can you say that after all this attention I've been giving you?!?  Allow me to offer my heart-felt "there, there..."
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Sharing with another - 1/24/2009 3:12:23 AM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The good news is, Focus isn't pulling any punches.  So we all know where he stands and completely denies the reality of my existence and experience.  That's ok. 

You too, ay?  18,000 posts and you don't recognise the astronomic snow-ball effect that's happened here over an otherwise harmless pun I made at your expense that's brought every wannabe white knight out of the abyss and charging to the rescue...  If that's so, then when I described you as "smart" (to DavanKael, post #71), I meant intelligent, k?
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Sharing with another - 1/24/2009 5:06:18 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
So Focus, if I am reading you correctly, you would dismiss the various aspects of sex magick or the use of sex in the performance of specific rites acceptable to alternative religious beliefs (of which I do have a wealth of documented precedents of this practice) as mere flim flam?  I must ask then, who are you to arbitrate between what some of us consider as sacred and the mainstream?  

I see; it's alright for me to have and express an opinion as long as it's one you approve of?  Lol, good luck with that....
 
Focus.


Quit dodging the bullet I asked two questions::

Question One:
So Focus, if I am reading you correctly, you would dismiss the various aspects of sex magick or the use of sex in the performance of specific rites acceptable to alternative religious beliefs (of which I do have a wealth of documented precedents of this practice) as mere flim flam?

Question Two:
I must ask then, who are you to arbitrate between what some of us consider as sacred and the mainstream? 

Opinions are fine, healthy and oft necessary, but comments slamming or belittling peoples concepts is not fine and unhealthy in my view.



_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Sharing with another - 1/24/2009 7:23:19 AM   
DrSysAdmin


Posts: 37
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline 		Ya know, as a ordained minister (among many other things) - this thread has done alot to make me laugh.

People, everyone has their own view - Ironbear, Focus, LA, and all the rest. Accept that no one sees things the same, and its their life to live as they choose, just as yours is yours. If Focus wants to think that "sex magick" is flim flam - he has the right. Just like Ironbear has the right to see it as sacred and powerful. No one here can dictate the spiritual to another. When the world figures that out - then the world will be better off.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Sharing with another - 1/24/2009 8:30:36 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DrSysAdmin

Ya know, as a ordained minister (among many other things) - this thread has done alot to make me laugh.

People, everyone has their own view - Ironbear, Focus, LA, and all the rest. Accept that no one sees things the same, and its their life to live as they choose, just as yours is yours. If Focus wants to think that "sex magick" is flim flam - he has the right. Just like Ironbear has the right to see it as sacred and powerful. No one here can dictate the spiritual to another. When the world figures that out - then the world will be better off.


All this is fine, except when someone decides a particular practice is "flim flam" and continues on to say the person enjoying that practice is "assualting our sensibilities," "sanctimonious," "exaggerating," "perverting the language," "self riteous," "bullshit," "posturing," "pretentious," "malarky," "hypocrite," "crazy," "dillusional," .....Then it's no longer expressing an opposing belief of said practice, but an actual verbal assault on whomever is espousing the practice.

I can't imagine the world is better off with this kind of opposition, as opposed to simply saying, "I really don't agree with you there" and explaining why.  And that's all Focus really needed to say, rather than starting off with a sarcastic sling over to a poster he rarely agrees with anyway.  Not all opinions are welcome.  "I don't like what you're doing" is a lot different than, "I think you're a total idiot asshole because of what you're doing." 

Besides, I think (an opinion, which we've all agreed is ok to post) Focus likes the attention. 


Edited to add:  For what it's worth (maybe nothing to some), I have nothing against Focus and in fact sometimes I absolutely agree with what he has to say.  It's the way he went about things in this thread that I'm responding to, not that he doesn't see/find/understand someone's expression of sexual sacredness.


< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 1/24/2009 8:33:06 AM >

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to DrSysAdmin)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Sharing with another - 1/24/2009 10:07:22 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

your sense of humor is one that only you understand as has been demonstrated by the numerous responses that you have received


I am surprised to see one so eloquent, and in possession of such an admirably impressively convolutedly large vocabulary, resort to such cheap shots.

(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 80
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