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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 6:10:52 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Come on, this is old news that has been widely discredited.

If you have some startling, new information then offer some links.

I haven't seen it discredited. As far as I know, it's a well established fact. Sudan wanted to get rid of him, and they offered to turn him over to us. Clinton's administration turned down the offer. You offer me any "new information" that disproves it, because I haven't seen any.

I see.

You make an off-the-wall statement without any substantiation and it is up to others to prove you wrong.

Now I understand why you like Bush so much.

But I'll take you up on it. Stand by.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 6:27:11 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

I see.

You make an off-the-wall statement without any substantiation and it is up to others to prove you wrong.

Now I understand why you like Bush so much.

But I'll take you up on it. Stand by.

Well I see. You hate Bush so much that you are willing to fabricate stories to discredit him. I never said that I "like Bush so much." I disagreed with him on numerous topics. But I don't oblige the Lefties and their attempts at history revisionism. I didn't make an "off the wall statement." The Sudan offer was well reported.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 6:32:07 PM

rulemylife

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Here you go.

This is just the first link I ran across. There are dozens more if you object to the source.

I offered this one because I guessed it was your source of information. After all, if a conservative talk show host reports it then it must be the truth.

Media Matters - Hannity again falsely claimed Sudan offered bin ...Jul 23, 2004 ... Sudan never offered bin Laden to the United States, and Clinton did not admit to the Sudan offer in that speech or anywhere else. ...
mediamatters.org/items/200407230005

HANNITY: I think another source of potentially damaging revelations as far as the Clinton people would be concerned, evidence gathered by the 9/11 Commission backing up the allegation that President Clinton refused the offer from the government of Sudan for Osama bin Laden, which is a tape that we have been pointing out to you often.

The "evidence" to which Hannity referred is the 9-11 Commission report's statement: "[F]ormer Sudanese officials claim that Sudan offered to expel Bin Ladin to the United States." But the report immediately continued: "Clinton administration officials deny ever receiving such an offer. We have not found any reliable evidence to support the Sudanese claim." Hannity, therefore, endorsed the claims of former officials of Sudan -- a country that the U.S. Department of State has designated as a state sponsor of terrorism every year since 1993 -- rather than the testimony of Clinton administration officials and the findings of the 9-11 Commission.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 8:13:53 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

I can only hope Obama has another crisis like 9/11. And then we'll see if he cowars like Clinton did.

Edited before my ass gets handed to me

You should`a quite while you were ahead.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 8:22:10 PM

Irishknight

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Edited because I somehow missed a whole page of posts..

< Message edited by Irishknight -- 1/20/2009 8:25:26 PM >

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 8:24:21 PM

E2Sweet

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Left vs. right, red vs. blue, conservatives vs. liberals, Fox News, vs. CNN... This is, in my view, a big part of why we fail miserably as a society as of late... and it's why we continue to be let down dead-end paths at the hands of our elected officials. Has anyone else noticed we seem to be constantly distracted in our never ending pursuit of hating on everyone that doesn't agree with our politics? Could it get any more sad to hash this crap out time and time again? I mean seriously...

Please, someone let me know when we as a society are going to grow up and stop buying into the media-led paranoid hysteria... I'll be here at my place happily ignoring pretty-much all of the popular national news sources because they ( and I do mean all of them) don't seem to have the capacity to continuously deliver real, unbiased news.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 8:32:10 PM

Irishknight

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Its funny. I told a friend of mine during the Bush/Kerry election that Dems would not be able to win another election until they quit running on hate and started running on hope. I almost didn't notive Obama doing exactly that. Fortunately, the McCain meltdown gave me a chance to reevaluate what was going on.
Obamarized? No. Am I pleased that he is our president? You betchya.

At this point, he has EXACTLY the same potential as the 43 men before him did at this point. He can be the best, the worst or somewhere in between. I hope he's the best and wish him well on this most special night.

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RE: Just out of curiosity - 1/20/2009 8:37:14 PM

Owner59

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I`ll stick with right vs. wrong and follow my heart.No one group has a monopoly on truth or all the right answers.

It often comes down to leadership and example.

I don`t think President Obama with fail that test.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 8:40:39 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

In fact, the only member of Bush's inner circle that was a war veteran was Rumsfeld.

I hope you are only leaving Colin Powell out due to his leaving the administration.

No, I was leaving him out because he was the one voice of reason against a rush to war.

I don't agree with his actions before the U.N.

There have been many reports that he doubted much of what he was saying was actual fact, and questioned many of the claims beforehand.

Did he believe it was possibly true and he decided to err on the side of "better safe than sorry"? Did he have a misplaced loyalty to Bush? Was it his own political aspirations?

Why he did what he did only he knows.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 8:48:21 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Edited because I somehow missed a whole page of posts..

See how you are.

Now I already responded to the post you just deleted.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 9:18:48 PM

Irishknight

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It was amazing, I was sitting here, typing in the dark because I'm fighting a migraine and I missed an entire page of posts where you had already addressed the leaving out of Mr Powell.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/20/2009 9:38:08 PM

slaveboyforyou

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quote:

Here you go.

This is just the first link I ran across. There are dozens more if you object to the source.

I offered this one because I guessed it was your source of information. After all, if a conservative talk show host reports it then it must be the truth.

You're providing me with a link to Media Matters?

Yeah, they aren't biased at all. Also, I guess you believe that everyone not in league with your views must be Sean Hannity fans, right?

It's very typical, and it's a common fallacious argument tactic from anti-Bush folks. I've never once mentioned Hannity's name here, or any other right-wing media personality. I don't listen or watch talk shows; I find them incredibly boring. I also despise Sean Hannity. As I said, the matter was widely reported. I'm not going to go chasing down links for you. Internet links aren't proof of anything, and any junior in a remedial high school social studies class can tell you that. Oh and yeah, I wouldn't Bill Clinton's cronies if they said grass was green.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/21/2009 4:21:37 AM

Cagey18

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

As I said, the matter was widely reported.

Curiously enough, not in the media, but only in emails exchanged by RWers, and shows like Hannity's.

Why else would you guys always use the "handed on a silver platter" phrase? You're just repeating the same bogus info ad infinitum, disproved long ago, by Bush's 9/11 Commission no less.

As I pointed out to one of your cohorts, it wasn't "Sudan" who claimed they had bin Laden, it was one Pakistani named Mansoor Ijaz, who was so unreliable not one government would sponsor his bogus story.

You can't tell the difference between a Middle Eastern nation and a Pakistani businessman? Don't feel bad, neither can Sean Hannity.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/21/2009 5:05:02 AM

corysub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

As I said, the matter was widely reported.

Curiously enough, not in the media, but only in emails exchanged by RWers, and shows like Hannity's.

Why else would you guys always use the "handed on a silver platter" phrase? You're just repeating the same bogus info ad infinitum, disproved long ago, by Bush's 9/11 Commission no less.

As I pointed out to one of your cohorts, it wasn't "Sudan" who claimed they had bin Laden, it was one Pakistani named Mansoor Ijaz, who was so unreliable not one government would sponsor his bogus story.

You can't tell the difference between a Middle Eastern nation and a Pakistani businessman? Don't feel bad, neither can Sean Hannity.

Yep, it widely reported in the "wingnut" media like Hannity, Rush, and the Washington Post who quoted Sandy Berger. You remember Sandy, the guy that played the teen boy game of stuffing a sock in his shorts to show a "bulge", only Sandy used papers stolen from Defense Department archives.

And you know that you can trust anything that ever came out of the Clinton administration:
"I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky"! (She has a blue what in her closet?)
"Sudan never offered us Bin-Laden"! (Sandy Berger is a liar)
Some people are just so distrustful of democrats that their comments seem irrational, insane, over-the top, naieve, and sophmoric. Gimme a break!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A61251-2001Oct2

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/21/2009 6:07:00 AM

TNstepsout

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I will miss Bush. He's a really funny guy. I think now that he's out off office he should do stand-up.

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/21/2009 6:59:08 AM

corysub

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I don't know if Obama is real or a "creature created for the time" but his rhetoric is very moderate and concilliatory towards those he disagrees with and he seems open to alternative ideas. As someone said earlier, no one has a monopoly on ideas...left or right. However, that example has not filtered down to the minions who still have an obsession with George Bush and believe that all history began eight years ago.

I for one am to the right of Rush but I am not going to judge the President until he starts to take some actions. Should I disagree I will be as vocal as ever, but I also intend to support him where his views and mine mesh. That is what a democracy is all about...not hoping that a "million shoes are thrown at OUR President as someone also suggested.

Lets give Obama the chance Bush was never given....

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/21/2009 7:22:30 AM

LaTigresse

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I thought by now it was common knowledge that Regan was the one that had the opportunity to put the smack down on Bin Laden and refrained, thinking it would be badly received by the American public. Which it probably would have been.

This shit builds over years and multiple presidencies. No one president is to blame. If people want to find one person to blame 9/11 on they will be looking a very long time. If anything, we are all to blame. Our arrogance as a country and how we present ourselves to the world as a whole, has been inflamatory for a very long time. I think that GW was simply the lucky match that set the flame burning on the fuse for that powder keg. He happened to be a perfect example of the type of American that the extremists from that part of the world hate most.

My feelings are that, if we had had a different personality conveying a different America, it may not have happened. Then again, would anything have changed? Who knows, it's done and we simply need to continue moving forward using all resources to try and assure it doesn't happen again. Not here, in London, in Paris, nor in Jerusalem, or Baghdad. Because regardless of religioun or type of government, the greatest number of people hurt, are innocent people.

Humanity really needs to just grow the fuck up and deal with their issues and differences like adults, instead of poorly behaved children squabbling in a schoolyard.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/21/2009 7:45:09 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysug
I for one am to the right of Rush

Hey, cory - if you're to the right of Rush, doesn't that make you left of everybody

?

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/21/2009 7:52:39 AM

Truthiness

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Just closer to "Anarchist" than Rush. ;)

(Totally "right" being zero government, while total "Left" is absolute government.)

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RE: Just out of curiousity - 1/21/2009 7:52:41 AM

Mercnbeth

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I've finally figured out what was meant by 'change'. Until yesterday - criticizing the US, the Country's policies, and calling the US President names was accepting and encouraged; as of yesterday it is not! Now it's all about 'wait & see', 'give him a chance', 'he needs time' and 'why can't we all get along'. What a difference a day makes! Excuse me - what a difference agenda and personal prejudice makes. We now have 'good intent' as reason enough to chastise any dissension; and facts, especially negative ones, should be ignored in order to let that 'good intent' feeling linger. All that transpired before yesterday, by definition and party, had 'bad intent', 'hidden agenda', and was the work of 'insiders' - all gone in one day, by one man! What a difference a day makes indeed!

Maybe I too would have been affected similarly if I participated in that juvenile behavior.

However, I am grateful to all declaring their past activities are no longer appropriate and look forward to debating on the issues.

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