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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 7:41:22 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

"Brutal capitalism" has been feeding the family unit practically since time began.

The 'family unit' as you know it is a product of the Industrial Revolution. Hardly an old thing.

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 7:45:13 AM

colouredin

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Yup and capitalism aint that old either

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 7:47:33 AM

Lucylastic

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Brutal Capitalism has been raping the working mans table just as long
ask the 50 000 people who lost their jobs yesterday, nothing to do with feminism or welfare...greed and deniability as usual.
sickening
Lucy

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:01:38 AM

rexrgisformidoni

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shows me to a large extent that capitalism has failed.

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:05:05 AM

Lucylastic

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And then some
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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:09:09 AM

MissMorrigan

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It's been very successful - by gaining to the detriment of others - putting ownership before the welfare of mankind.

I loves you, Tony Benn.

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:23:05 AM

MissSepphora1

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Are you people honestly saying capitalism killed the family unit? "This isn't the 1950s"? The family is over???

Wow, what an attitude. That's like saying AIDS kills people so we should just accept it. Or, breast cancer kills people so there isn't anything we should do about it.

How flippant has our society become to say the family is over. Anyone who takes that attitude is the reason the family is over.

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:24:57 AM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Panda? You went from blue to damned. I'm not sure I like this .

It's not easy being blue all the time, Kitten. You get to where you'd gladly sell your soul to feel like everyone else....

Nah... seriously, I didn't have any choice.I changed my password a week and a half ago, and was unable to log in to the forums afterwards. I exchanged several e-mails with support, but they were unable to give me any reason to expect that they can fix it. So I had to abandon the old profile and create a new one. I hate sitting on the sidelines watching everybody else have all the fun in the forums.

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:25:04 AM

CalifChick

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They didn't shut off his electricity. They put a restrictor on it, and when I last read the article, it was unclear whether he knew that trying to use too much electricity would make it blow like a fuse, and someone would have to come and reset it. Whether they would have turned off his electricity after ten days with the restrictor in place is unclear.

It is sad that they did not have better safeguards in place, such as notifying adult protective services that he was going to need help, or any of a number of other things.

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:26:26 AM

MissSepphora1

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And by the way, here in WV the utility companies give people the option to pay extra on their bill to help those who cannot pay. Also, there ARE churches and other social groups who also help those who cannot pay. Besides the fact that DHHR and other government programs are out there.

Why are people on this thread practically stating the bad utility companies should be prosecuted? Perhaps we should all go back to candles and wood stoves, and that would make everyone feel all warm and fuzzy.

But then, how is a 93 year old going to cut his own wood?

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:26:49 AM

colouredin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1
Anyone who takes that attitude is the reason the family is over.

The idea of 'family' is a social construct and also the idea of 'family' changes over time. The nuclear model works in a mobile industrial economy (ie now) in a rural economy extended families worked far better and in primitive communism tribes are key. The family will never be 'over' but its meaning will and does change (single parents, women choosing to be single etc)

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:27:04 AM

Aylee

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Couple things here:

The power company was owned by the city. So, no, it was NOT some greedy corporation it was governement. Also, they had not shut the power off. They had put a limiter on it, which he tripped by using too much power, and then failed to reset it. Like a breaker.

And HOW many of you are wanting to nationalize everything?

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:28:03 AM

NuevaVida

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Terrible story, so very sad.

When my grandmother was 92 I showed up at her house to check on her, it was late November. She was wrapped in a blanket, sitting in front of her fireplace, burning paper products. Her house was about 58 degrees. And we're in California. I asked why she didn't have her heater on. She said the electric company came and did their annual winter check and red tagged it for a possible gas leak, shut it off, and left.

Not to be condescending of the elderly, but often times the world as it is today intimidates them. People move fast, talk fast, and do things fast. She had tried calling to sort it out, but the impatience she was met with on the phone frustrated her, so instead she did nothing.

I suspect (but really can't say) that the man in this story was lost as to how to figure his situation out, too. I can understand utility services turning power off - what other means/threat is there to get the average joe to pay? It doesn't have to be a majority that don't pay their bills to cause issues, but I believe there are sufficient enough people who might take advantage of a free ride, to cramp the companies and the rest of us who do pay.

It is indeed a horribly sad thing that this man did not seem to call anyone for help, and that he likely talked to some "helpful" schmuck on the phone (yes, I am assuming here) who was confusing, impatient, and less than helpful. That's what collections folks are, after all. Now, I can sit here at the age of 43 with a (somewhat) fully functioning mind and say if I felt THAT cold and no one was helping, I'd call 911 to pick me up and take me to a warm ER. But at 93, when my mind is likely already fading...who knows?

I don't know what the solution is - don't shut off power to the elderly during the winter? Don't shut off power at all to anyone in the winter? But then how will these folks pay come springtime? Where I live, PG&E sends notices out at the beginning of winter, to those who qualify as low income. They are given the option of being put on a minimal payment plan through the winter, to keep their service on and still pay something for it. I think it's a deal where you pay a certain amount every month all year, whether you use your heater and A/C or not. It's a way of spreading out the higher winter bills.

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:31:19 AM

MissSepphora1

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Isn't that why we have unions???

Perhaps unions have killed capitalism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Brutal Capitalism has been raping the working mans table just as long
ask the 50 000 people who lost their jobs yesterday, nothing to do with feminism or welfare...greed and deniability as usual.
sickening
Lucy

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:32:27 AM

subtee

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The restrictor was, in effect, the same thing as turning off the electricity, obviously. Once the power goes above a set level it gets shut off. It was below 32 degrees in his house.

I don't want to nationalize everything, but I do think my questions were fair. Should people die for this?

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:35:08 AM

subtee

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quote:

It doesn't have to be a majority that don't pay their bills to cause issues, but I believe there are sufficient enough people who might take advantage of a free ride, to cramp the companies and the rest of us who do pay.

What does this mean, "to cramp the companies and the rest of us who do pay?"

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:51:22 AM

Sanity

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Maybe all the old people should be locked up for their own good.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

~FR

The issue for me is obvious as well. Do we want to be a country and a people that will allow some of us--in this case an elderly man--to die in order that the relatively few who would otherwise take advantage aren't able to?

We don't know his situation, we have to make assumptions.

Either he could pay and didn't, or he couldn't pay. What do you choose to assume?

If he couldn't pay (for whatever reason, for example, he simply didn't have the money or he was challenged with senility), should he have been cut off?

If he could pay and didn't, does that justify his death? (Again, we have to assume: he was a miser, he hated the utility company, he loved to scam...)

If he could pay and didn't, how is society benefitted by cutting off his power--not letting him get away with it?

Since we have to make assumptions or else contact every citizen personally when they fall behind, which way should our assumptions fall?

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:56:21 AM

kittinSol

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Doesn't society owe it to its elderly citizens to show them basic respect, and to not let them die for non-payment of a utility bill? Is this it, then: capital punishment if you can't afford to heat your home? How dehumanized have we become that we let a man die of cold because of a thousand bucks? How dehumanized are you, and the handful of others who think this death is normal, that you make justifications and rationalisations for it? And all you can do is make cheap jokes? It's sad.

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 9:04:22 AM

GreedyTop

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why am I suddenly hearing "SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!"

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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 9:05:37 AM

Lucylastic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Isn't that why we have unions???

Perhaps unions have killed capitalism.

does not compute, capitalism has taken a nasty blow, but it will carry on, its not dead, greed will make sure of that
Lucy

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