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RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 2:22:12 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

~ GOOD INTENT ~

It seems reasonable that the 'National Security Force', championed by the current administration, be formed immediately in light of the wide spread tragedy that this example provides.

First - ALL private residential door locks should be deemed illegal or come with a universal key given to the 'NSF' troopers. Then, each night, they should go into each and every apartment, knocking would just waste time, throughout the country and make sure that each and every citizen is alive, awake, and well; determined by standing at attention and singing the first 4 bars of the National Anthem (new or old version).

It's the only way we can be sure this tragedy never occurs again!

(in reply to philosophy)

Post #: 101

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 2:27:32 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

This tendency to try and score cheap political points out of this kind of tragedy is disgusting.

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 102

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 2:30:13 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Take some aspirin merc,it will be okay.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 103

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 2:30:24 PM

came4U

Posts: 3572
Joined: 1/23/2007
From: London, Ontario
Status: offline

In Canada they cannot shut off the hydro unless there are unusual circumstances. They will negotiate a bill payment method with you even if the meter reader has to knock on your door. ..and they will POUND n POUND and leave a big red card in your mailbox.

-30 or -40 can cool a house within minutes in that case.

I don't have a clue how much my monthly bill is but it has been late by mistake once. (I'm guessing $130 was owed??). They really pester, scared the Bejeezus out of me actually, thought it was some psycho at the door. If this man owed that much I am disgusted that no meter reader (who comes around the neighborhood anyways) didn't attempt to contact this man (by policy).

I don't believe something like this occuring would go un-noticed around here. If no one answered and saw windows freezing up I am sure they would call some authorities. The guy at my door truly was an embarassing pest *and quitet bitchy.

< Message edited by came4U -- 1/27/2009 2:38:53 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 104

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 2:30:41 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

This tendency to try and score cheap political points out of this kind of tragedy is disgusting.

I couldn't agree more! That's why I proposed a pragmatic solution based upon published policy and plans.

You should try it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Take some aspirin merc,it will be okay.

I don't understand mike. This is 'buying into' the plan isn't it?

BTW - I feel GREAT! Thanks for your suggestion of concern.

Maybe it's you who needs the aspirin, or a least some dose of reality.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 1/27/2009 2:39:21 PM >

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 105

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 2:42:47 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline

Reality ain't all it's cracked up to be Merc.I much prefer the state I'm in ,it's just north of optimistic,a little left of hopeful.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 106

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 6:52:04 PM

scarlethiney

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSepphora1

Well stop expressing your compassion and concern, and actually DO something about it. What gives you the moral high ground do nothing and say everyone else is bad for doing nothing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

What gives you the moral high ground that you can sit there and condemn us for expressing compassion and concern?

I think it's obvious that Misssephora lives to push buttons and whine and bitch and accuse and instigate. Her responses are the same on every single thread she posts on.
One thing is clear; were she a society she would best be known for eating her young.

_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.

see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to MissSepphora1)

Post #: 107

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 7:06:20 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

~FR

The issue for me is obvious as well. Do we want to be a country and a people that will allow some of us--in this case an elderly man--to die in order that the relatively few who would otherwise take advantage aren't able to?

We don't know his situation, we have to make assumptions.

Either he could pay and didn't, or he couldn't pay. What do you choose to assume?

If he couldn't pay (for whatever reason, for example, he simply didn't have the money or he was challenged with senility), should he have been cut off?

If he could pay and didn't, does that justify his death? (Again, we have to assume: he was a miser, he hated the utility company, he loved to scam...)

If he could pay and didn't, how is society benefitted by cutting off his power--not letting him get away with it?

Since we have to make assumptions or else contact every citizen personally when they fall behind, which way should our assumptions fall?

I say let them die. He was probably a commie hippie anyway. Fuck him. Capitalism rules.
(Man, this new right-wing ideology I've adopted is so exhilarating! It really SIMPLIFIES everything. No shades of gray, nuamces gone away, it is all so clear now...) /sarcasm

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 108

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 7:09:59 PM

Hippiekinkster

Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Panda? You went from blue to damned. I'm not sure I like this .

It's not easy being blue all the time, Kitten. You get to where you'd gladly sell your soul to feel like everyone else....

Nah... seriously, I didn't have any choice.I changed my password a week and a half ago, and was unable to log in to the forums afterwards. I exchanged several e-mails with support, but they were unable to give me any reason to expect that they can fix it. So I had to abandon the old profile and create a new one. I hate sitting on the sidelines watching everybody else have all the fun in the forums.

Wait till you get put on moderation for a month. You'll never have such fun! Hell, even KatieJ only ever dinged me for three days.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 109

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 7:10:39 PM

scarlethiney

Posts: 492
Joined: 8/22/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ GOOD INTENT ~

It seems reasonable that the 'National Security Force', championed by the current administration, be formed immediately in light of the wide spread tragedy that this example provides.

First - ALL private residential door locks should be deemed illegal or come with a universal key given to the 'NSF' troopers. Then, each night, they should go into each and every apartment, knocking would just waste time, throughout the country and make sure that each and every citizen is alive, awake, and well; determined by standing at attention and singing the first 4 bars of the National Anthem (new or old version).

It's the only way we can be sure this tragedy never occurs again!

Nice.................one needs no further evidence, you've convinced me...... you are indeed the jerk I thought you were.

_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.

see my profile masterkspet

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 110

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 7:18:08 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

The sad part is that this is one more example of the death of "community". Once upon a time, the community would assist in looking after the elderly and looking out after the UMs. Now everyone is closed off, does not know their neighbor but they watch TV and say how horrible this and that is.

Things like this happen, and it could have been prevented not by the government, but by people just like you and me.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to StrangerThan)

Post #: 111

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 7:27:33 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ GOOD INTENT ~

It seems reasonable that the 'National Security Force', championed by the current administration, be formed immediately in light of the wide spread tragedy that this example provides.

First - ALL private residential door locks should be deemed illegal or come with a universal key given to the 'NSF' troopers. Then, each night, they should go into each and every apartment, knocking would just waste time, throughout the country and make sure that each and every citizen is alive, awake, and well; determined by standing at attention and singing the first 4 bars of the National Anthem (new or old version).

It's the only way we can be sure this tragedy never occurs again!

LOL! You should send this into Stephen Colbert, Merc. It'd be perfect for him.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 112

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 8:52:42 PM

winterlight

Posts: 1319
Joined: 2/18/2006
Status: offline

i would agree with some states in having nothing turned off during certain months, certainly not during one of the coldest winter in quite some time. Are there some that take advantage? Yes! What kind of income did this man have at the age of 93. I don't think he should have died in his home for not paying his bill.
Many old people cannot afford food especially with the cost of food and fuel going up. For some cat food is their source of food.
Even if didn't end up in the circumstances he was in and lived and died the next day i still don't see the need to shut off his heat. I have to wonder if there were services out there to help him and others in their prediciment? I realize many due to the way they grew up (Depression, family taught them to be self sufficient and not seek help) but something could have been done. it is such a shame to lose anybody for any reason. i do not wish this fate on anybody. Another point we do not know our neighbors any more. We do not look out for each other any more. WE do not reach out to others who need our help. Yes, there are areas in the United States where people do care and do know their neighbors BUT there are many out there alone that could use help. I think it is time people got back to caring...

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 113

RE: What life is worth - 1/27/2009 11:12:35 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

     Being home with a broken heater tonight (why must the part always need to be ordered from LA???), this story resonates with me. Nothing like Michigan, but we'll drop into the 20's (f). Here, it is the electricity turned off in the summer that kills people, and I seem to see that story on the news a time or two, every year. It's tragic everytime, and it happens all the time. 200 years ago, it was the widow with no one to chop her wood.

    My advice for those with super-strong feeling in the matter is to find a local organization that will pay these utility bills. There are lots of them out there. Give them a donation.



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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to StrangerThan)

Post #: 114

RE: What life is worth - 1/28/2009 6:06:38 AM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

There are a lot of organizations out there to help people. The problem is, they only have so much money and cannot help everyone who needs it and part of that is due to the ones who abuse the help, applying for it and getting it when they don't need it, and another part is that not enough gets donated. Many, if not most, of the organizations will only help so many times, with so much and then the person has to find another way to get more help if they need it.

When circumstances hit and you have no way to pay, or to get enough needs met no matter how hard, how much you try to change them, you just have to make the best of it until you are able to finally get back on your feet, if you are able to do so. Communities have changed, not always because people don't care, but because a lot of times people are afraid to speak up or do much to try and help others due to the responses they get, which in some cases can become violent. It's a sad thing.

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Sarah2
Deviant Mind
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(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 115

RE: What life is worth - 1/28/2009 6:09:21 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Charity is very laudable, but society should never rely on it to solve its fundamental problems. I find the increasing reliance on charitable funding deeply troubling.

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(in reply to SassySarijane)

Post #: 116

RE: What life is worth - 1/28/2009 6:41:22 AM

SassySarijane

Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline

No it shouldn't, but sadly it has become a necessity. I wish it weren't. I wish everyone was able to see to their own needs and that of their families, but many aren't and don't have family to help and work with them.

_____________________________

Sarah2
Deviant Mind
Wild Side Readers
LPTnB

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 117

RE: What life is worth - 1/28/2009 6:59:05 AM

MissMorrigan

Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Especially when these companies have means with which to recoup the majority of their losses - ethically and legally, there is no excuse for condemning a vulnerable person to further hardships which could have a detrimental/devastating effect on their health b/c they are late with their payments.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Charity is very laudable, but society should never rely on it to solve its fundamental problems. I find the increasing reliance on charitable funding deeply troubling.

_____________________________

The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 118

RE: What life is worth - 1/28/2009 8:44:52 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

FR:

I think we've covered this topic before ...

quote:

Question:

What do you consider an "acceptable" monetary cost for saving a life?

Discussion:

In emotional terms, for someone we love, I know that there is no value to a life.

But, when it comes to making decisions about the allocation of finanical resources, especially in public funds, these type of decisions are made all the time.

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to MissMorrigan)

Post #: 119

RE: What life is worth - 1/28/2009 8:47:30 AM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

FR
http://www.mlive.com/news/bay-city/index.ssf/2009/01/marvin_schurs_death_was_preven.html

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 120

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