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RE: Produce the note ! - 1/30/2009 4:03:17 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

You can't put everybody that is being foreclosed on into the same bag of being deadbeats, merc. Take, for example, the woman in Ohio who bought a house for 147k and put 40k down. She was still given a sub-prime mortgage by the lender. Her payments, due to the variable interest rate, went from $800 a month to $1500. There is no doubt that predatory lenders knew what they were doing. Ok, the mortgagee in question didn't read the contract or shop for alternatives. Instead, acting in good faith, she assumed the lender was also acting in good faith. Shame on her for her naivete !




If she were acting in good faith then she would have lived up to her responsibility of understanding what she was getting involved in and investigated the alternatives.

People who took out adjustable rate mortgages have only themselves to blame for their stupidity, or greed.

Greed because many used arm's to buy more house they could afford counting on a booming housing market and their gains in equity to make up for the shortfalls in the income needed to cover their mortgage.

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/30/2009 4:46:12 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

You can't put everybody that is being foreclosed on into the same bag of being deadbeats, merc. Take, for example, the woman in Ohio who bought a house for 147k and put 40k down. She was still given a sub-prime mortgage by the lender. Her payments, due to the variable interest rate, went from $800 a month to $1500. There is no doubt that predatory lenders knew what they were doing. Ok, the mortgagee in question didn't read the contract or shop for alternatives. Instead, acting in good faith, she assumed the lender was also acting in good faith. Shame on her for her naivete !





If she were acting in good faith then she would have lived up to her responsibility of understanding what she was getting involved in and investigated the alternatives.

People who took out adjustable rate mortgages have only themselves to blame for their stupidity, or greed.

Greed because many used arm's to buy more house they could afford counting on a booming housing market and their gains in equity to make up for the shortfalls in the income needed to cover their mortgage.




Pay attention, rule. She paid 40k down on a 147k house. Your definition of good faith and mine are quite different, obviously. She was given a sub-prime mortgage , with all that implies, because she was taken advantage of by the greedy mortgage broker/lender. She was the victim here.By your standard, a burglar who is injured in the comission of burglary should have recourse to damages from the burgled.


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/30/2009 4:51:14 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Well, it's good to see that everyone is now convinced that the President Bush plan for bailing out the financial institutions was the correct path and wants to follow it to the letter, including verifying the documentation. (VERY REPUBLICAN) If only the Democratic Congress followed it and demanded the details for all the tax money sent to those guys. Your tax money BTW - but again - supporting the Bush/Obama stimulus packages seems to justify anything, including having the bail out not paid back. Took a while, but its good to see you all come around to seeing how smart the ex President was, as President Obama has.

Me, I'm a pragmatist, and if the program calls for these financial institutions to recapture their mortgage investment I would think the people responsible for oversight, namely Congress, wouldn't suggest ways to circumvent that plan. Then again, considering the Congresswoman in question has never worked in the public sector she thinks and expects the source of tax payer money is never ending and will always be there.

Speaking of Italy - I can't wait! Thanks for all the regards. As a retired citizen I expect my newly adopted government to work to keep me in the manner I've become accustomed. You're all welcome to visit! It's a really big castle.


In the words of the late Reagan one of your favs, merc, "there you go again". You blow smoke like it's good for us, usually second-hand smoke. It's not even worthy of a response.

Bon voyage. It's quite ironic ( and delicious ) that you are headed to a country where a significant part of the population has voted for communist and socialist parties over the years. I'm sure that you will be happy there behind your moat.

< Message edited by cjan -- 1/30/2009 4:53:15 PM >

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/30/2009 5:15:21 PM   
awmslave


Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline 		I see no crisis. People who can not afford house should give it back and rent. How can some legal manouver help the real situation. My solution would be to foreclose as much as possible and as fast as possible. House prices will fall in the process making them affordable to some and apartments will be built stimulating construction industry. The problem gets solved fast and economy can move foreward.

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/30/2009 5:36:19 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		Am I the only person whose house is in foreclosure NOT because I bought a $5million house with a $100k salary on an ARM that doubled?  I lost my  $80k job 17 months ago and the mtg was only $170k.  I'm now only making 1/2 what I used to and Wells-Fargo - the #5 recipient of OUR money - isn't all that interested in helping.  I feel bad for anyone losing his/her home but I don't have a LOT of sympathy for the pinheads who took out mtg's worth 10 times their salary! 

~Dave

_____________________________

He said I'd blown a seal. I said fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of this!
What happens in the event horizon STAYS in the Event Horizon!
I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/30/2009 5:39:33 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan


Pay attention, rule. She paid 40k down on a 147k house. Your definition of good faith and mine are quite different, obviously. She was given a sub-prime mortgage , with all that implies, because she was taken advantage of by the greedy mortgage broker/lender. She was the victim here.By your standard, a burglar who is injured in the comission of burglary should have recourse to damages from the burgled.



No. I agree that the bulk of the mortgage/banking crisis has to do with repackaging these sub-prime mortgages into securities that most investors didn't realize what they were buying into.

I don't, however, understand how people get themselves into the situation you are describing.

How is she a victim?  Other than of her own stupidity? 

People have a responsibility to themselves to investigate their own purchases and investments.  If they do not understand something there are plenty of resources and numerous means of direct help to educate them.

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/30/2009 5:47:54 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		Wonder how the city she represents feels about all those lost property tax dollars her suggestion would produce? hmmmm......

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/30/2009 6:43:30 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		 
quote:

You're all welcome to visit! It's a really big castle
This is what we call in "the business",  an iron clad written agreement...
*practices my Canneloni florentine recipe, takes Vespa lessons, picks up a book on Italian phrases, and waits patiently for Merc to retire*

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/30/2009 8:41:50 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Well, it's good to see that everyone is now convinced that the President Bush plan for bailing out the financial institutions was the correct path and wants to follow it to the letter, including verifying the documentation. (VERY REPUBLICAN) If only the Democratic Congress followed it and demanded the details for all the tax money sent to those guys. Your tax money BTW - but again - supporting the Bush/Obama stimulus packages seems to justify anything, including having the bail out not paid back. Took a while, but its good to see you all come around to seeing how smart the ex President was, as President Obama has.

Me, I'm a pragmatist, and if the program calls for these financial institutions to recapture their mortgage investment I would think the people responsible for oversight, namely Congress, wouldn't suggest ways to circumvent that plan. Then again, considering the Congresswoman in question has never worked in the public sector she thinks and expects the source of tax payer money is never ending and will always be there.

Speaking of Italy - I can't wait! Thanks for all the regards. As a retired citizen I expect my newly adopted government to work to keep me in the manner I've become accustomed. You're all welcome to visit! It's a really big castle.


In the words of the late Reagan one of your favs, merc, "there you go again". You blow smoke like it's good for us, usually second-hand smoke. It's not even worthy of a response.

Bon voyage. It's quite ironic ( and delicious ) that you are headed to a country where a significant part of the population has voted for communist and socialist parties over the years. I'm sure that you will be happy there behind your moat.

C,
Quoting President Reagan? Are you converting? Seems to be the path of the current administration too. Even the; "at least he hasn't sent troops to occupy a country" is going to be short lived according to this story.
quote:

Admiral Michael Mullen, the most senior American military officer, said the U.S. will probably deploy close to 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan to shore up deteriorating security there.


Short term? Nope:
quote:

Mullen said the new resources are needed to buy time for a broad, long-term buildup of Afghan security forces that will allow the U.S. to “put an Afghan face” on the effort and dispel perceptions of a foreign occupation.
Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=afll.9YZiyUY&refer=worldwide 

Change? Nope!

It's best that you don't respond - what the hell can you say? Same stimulus package, same people getting tax money to be bailed out. Same bonuses being paid. Same 'shock' and 'appall' by the President when bonuses are paid with the tax money. Same US troop deployment to intervene in the affairs of a foreign sovereign nation. All in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned for next week's big tax cut compromise for fellow Republican votes in the Senate. Hell, I don't think Senator McCain would have 'accomplished' all this in so short a time.

Yeah, it's much better to take your tactic and not address any of that.

Regarding Italy's political farce; even the locals joke about it. Their ambition matches mine - keep the government out of the process of business. However, unlike their US counterparts, when they don't like what's going on - they have not problem kicking out the entire batch and starting again from scratch. I think they've done it over 100 times since WWII. Better that attitude than that of the sheep we have voting here - reelecting the same corrupt and self aggrandizing people who's only concern is the next bag drop from their PAC paymasters. Yes - even a democratically elected 'communist' government is preferred to that. 

But you should continue to rationalize. It's obvious you have no other possible answer. Why not address the situation concerning this 'Produce the note' issue? It's your money which paid the failure bail out, which paid the bonuses, which this 13 term Congress person voted for by 'selling' the idea to the public that it would be an 'investment' paid back when the loans were collected. Now she's suggesting ways to cheat that process. Ways that will ultimately fail, and only add more expense to the process insuring that the repayment will be encumbered. How noble? Do you admire her, or see her as the hypocrite as I do?

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/30/2009 8:58:47 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Wasn't part of the reason she said to do this, that there was bail out for the big guys and not for the little one's?  That injustice led to the tax payer's paying in more taxes to bail out the big guys... all while the little one's become homeless. Whoever is at fault.  If the blame is going to go somewhere... it ought to be shared... as well as the solution.


I think Lockit has put her finger on a very big political issue that hasn't been thought through yet.

Paulson came up with a huge giveaway to the banks and financial institutions.  Then the carmakers got a bailout.  At no time was any punishment levied on the miscreants who got our tax dollars.

The pendulum's gonna swing the other way.  I expect a populist movement to spring from this, with a "crucify the bastards" rallying cry.  The people who are middle class, seeing their money going to union workers and inept management making more than they do, should not be able to stand for this much longer.  Given the history of this country, I'd be disappointed if they DIDN'T rise up.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/31/2009 10:32:41 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

Wonder how the city she represents feels about all those lost property tax dollars her suggestion would produce? hmmmm......


I don't see how property tax revenues would be affected. The taxes still have to be paid.


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to TNstepsout)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/31/2009 10:37:31 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		The Congresswoman is not advising anyone to break any law. In fact, her point seems to be for people facing foreclosure to obtain good legal counsel and to avail themselves of all legal means to stay in their homes.

Merc, being the business man that you seem to be, I would expect you to support any citizen who avails themselves of legal council in order to do take all legal means in order to protect their financial interests.


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Produce the note ! - 1/31/2009 10:01:34 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Correct cj, if it is legal for them to do this, why not ? That's what the suits did.

T

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 4:56:42 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Yes, T, exactly, it's what the suits did. It seems to me that what's sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander. To object to legal tactics of a foreclosed homeowner to stay in their home, for as long as they can, on some kind of " moral" grounds that do not apply to the suits as well seems disingenuous to me.

Here is some info on demanding that a mortgage holder produce the actual note. Again, it's a completely legal tactic.

http://www.articlesbase.com/law-articles/produce-the-note-how-to-save-your-home-from-foreclosure-704621.html


< Message edited by cjan -- 2/1/2009 5:14:38 AM >

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 5:11:32 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Here's some info on the legal concept of "squatters' rights" or "homesteading". Again, with proper legal representation, it may afford a foreclosed homeowner time to accumulate capital while keeping a roof over the family's heads, legally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Squatters+rights


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 5:53:18 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Y'know, it's really not wrong to hold one's self to higher moral standards than the suits. But one needs the means, that is the ability to afford to be able to do so. All's fair for them apparently, why not for us ?

Thanks for the links and I hope they help someone, but I have no need. My clan has known for decades what is going on, and everything is pretty much paid off. Mom actually wiped out her retirement accounts literally a matter of months before the crash started to buy a house. Now she has a free and clear deed instead of a useless piece of paper. Anything secured we pay off early. Always has been this way, well at least once we got out of the renting stage of life.

We also don't bite off more than we can chew. We also read contracts before signing them. We also do a few other things alot of people don't do.

Predatory lenders aren't the only ones you have to watch. Too many times I have witnessed or been on the phone with an insurance co., "You said this but that is not in the policy you sent me". They are flabbergasted that someone actually reads the thing. We read the fine print, the exclusions, all that.

On the other hand I've known a few people who really did not know whether the were leasing or buying their car, all they knew was the monthly payment. But then my Uncle made a Ford dealer really cry, he leased a truck, and they wouldn't credit him to his satisfaction so he bought it outright at the end of the lease and traded it in at another dealer coming out a few grand ahead. And he worked for Ford so he got the A plan to boot !

That's the type of people we are, and that's why I like to stress that people should be prepared for the world, that everything is not as it seems. However the bottom line is, if you run your affairs properly, you will never have to worry about pulling this chicanery (and that's what it is) to keep a roof over your head.

Well, almost never. Some do lose their source of income through no fault of their own. In that case things are different. If that happens to you, as far as I am concerned, STICK IT UP THEIR ASS, and if it's an umbrella, open it. They would do it to you any day of the fucking week.

T

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 6:08:05 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Speaking of Italy - I can't wait! Thanks for all the regards. As a retired citizen I expect my newly adopted government to work to keep me in the manner I've become accustomed. You're all welcome to visit! It's a really big castle.


Well you just remember that when you hear a tap tap on the gate and see a slightly bewildered, but grinning, broad from Iowa standing there with her little pull behind suitecase, and a bottle of wine under one arm.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 6:18:16 AM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Speaking of Italy - I can't wait! Thanks for all the regards. As a retired citizen I expect my newly adopted government to work to keep me in the manner I've become accustomed. You're all welcome to visit! It's a really big castle.
quote:

This is what we call in "the business",  an iron clad written agreement...
*practices my Canneloni florentine recipe, takes Vespa lessons, picks up a book on Italian phrases, and waits patiently for Merc to retire*




Well you just remember that when you hear a tap tap on the gate and see a slightly bewildered, but grinning, broad from Iowa standing there with her little pull behind suitecase, and a bottle of wine under one arm.
LaT....if you want to go on an a little  "vacay" with me....just SAY SO!  No more of this hinting cryptically between the lines...i'll lug the suitcase and wine like the good and twue service submissive i am.  Be gentle with me, Ma'am...i'm but a delicate flower.

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 6:24:08 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Speaking of Italy - I can't wait! Thanks for all the regards. As a retired citizen I expect my newly adopted government to work to keep me in the manner I've become accustomed. You're all welcome to visit! It's a really big castle.
quote:

This is what we call in "the business",  an iron clad written agreement...
*practices my Canneloni florentine recipe, takes Vespa lessons, picks up a book on Italian phrases, and waits patiently for Merc to retire*




Well you just remember that when you hear a tap tap on the gate and see a slightly bewildered, but grinning, broad from Iowa standing there with her little pull behind suitecase, and a bottle of wine under one arm.
LaT....if you want to go on an a little  "vacay" with me....just SAY SO!  No more of this hinting cryptically between the lines...i'll lug the suitcase and wine like the good and twue service submissive i am.  Be gentle with me, Ma'am...i'm but a delicate flower.


Edit to previous post.
When you hear a tap tap on the gate and see a slightly bewildered, but grinning, broad from Iowa standing there with 2 or 3 suitcases, a hot service submissive struggling with two (because I would be gentle enough to take one of them) of the suitcases and a case of recently purchased wine................

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to lronitulstahp)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 6:42:19 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		I have no issue with "produce the note" I am sure from a legal stand point it probably has to be shown as is before the foreclosure would proceed in the courts.
I have the mortgage on my home here in Atlanta, the deed to my home in Indiana and every lease for every building I have a store in, and I would bet that the owners of the notes and leases also have their copy. If it were to be lost it doesn't negate my obligation to those whom I owe. I don't think the legislator knows what it is she is talking about... perhaps she isn't an attorney? If the mortgage is found to userous or somehow the owner of the mortgage is not clearly the lien holder the court would find in the homeowners favor. Blanket legislation in this case would just become more bureaucratic paper to be shuffled around.

_____________________________

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The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
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It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 40
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