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RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 3:44:28 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

merc, I'm done running around in circles with you

, Two pages later from this:

quote:

It's not even worthy of a response.

You running for office?

Sorry you think results of the proposal are irrelevant. Well, what can I say, to that, I've never been motivated by procrastination tactics that only postponed likely consequences. You are right - projecting out, and considering consequence ARE my "usual tactics"; and have been so for many years. However, I know longer am amazed at being part of the minority who do so.

I've researched her proposal and even she sees is as nothing more than 'pay back' at best against the "evil" "greedy" mortgage bankers. Ultimately the idea accomplishes nothing but adding the expense of litigation incurred by both sides into the the mix. Four pages later, I don't see any other reasoning being disclosed to consider it a meritorious pursuit morally or economically.

As long as foolish proposals as the Congresswoman recommends are accepted as "solutions" there will be no solution. Fine representation of the new and, what was the term, oh yeah - "Change!" in leadership. - become a squatter!

In this era of selling off receivables, electronic scanning, and electronic media storage; I'm sure there are some lost documents. If the only way you can stay in your home is hoping yours is one of them, and you think its a good idea to use your last few bucks to get an attorney to find out if you are a 'winner', well hell, go for it.

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RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 3:54:17 PM

philosophy

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...so, what you're saying Merc, is that if the bank want to repossess your house you shouldn't check the paperwork thoroughly? Isn't that what got a lot of people into this mess in the first place?
i'm stunned you're advocating taking someones word that they legally own your house, rather than checking the paperwork.

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RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 4:06:38 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...so, what you're saying Merc, is that if the bank want to repossess your house you shouldn't check the paperwork thoroughly? Isn't that what got a lot of people into this mess in the first place?
i'm stunned you're advocating taking someones word that they legally own your house, rather than checking the paperwork.

"Produce the note" might also have the effect of forcing the courts to actually consider whether there are even legal grounds for a foreclosure. I think what has some running scared is that fraud might be uncovered in the course of establishing legal ownership. (read Uncle Nasty's posts on the fraudulent basis of a majority of loans written from 2000 on.)

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RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 4:20:35 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...so, what you're saying Merc, is that if the bank want to repossess your house you shouldn't check the paperwork thoroughly? Isn't that what got a lot of people into this mess in the first place?
i'm stunned you're advocating taking someones word that they legally own your house, rather than checking the paperwork.

No what got people in trouble was lying to themselves about how much home they could afford and being enabled to extend themselves by lenders spurred on by government 'good intent', and lack of bureaucratic oversight.

That being the case, sorry you interpret my comments as not wanting to pursue "due process". Maybe it's because you don't have any idea of the process in the US. The mortgage is filed and recorded with the local county. The book, page, and recording day of the mortgage is recorded and a matter of public record. Subsequent purchasers have to file their interest according to language in the mortgage and loan documents. As I said, considering the volume of mortgages, sales of assets, and companies, can some of these have been misfiled? Perhaps - but the question remains - what happens if you've spent the money to litigate and is was? It adds to your problem and doesn't solve it. Is that a solution worthy of pursuing under the circumstances? Should that be what our leadership is recommending under the circumstances?

There is no "word" involved in the process. The litigation and time required is involved, detailed and precise. Here is is for CA: http://www.foreclosureuniversity.com/studycenter/foreclosurelaws/california.php

All that aside, what does this proposal accomplish in the short or long term?

I loath waste - and can think of no worst waste of personal resources than what the Congresswomen recommends for anyone in this situation. That doesn't mean you have to agree - but it would be great to see a good reason just for sake of discussion.

You want to stay in your home and work through a reasonable solution - spend your time with the loan officer and have an honest discussion. Failing to find a solution there, use any resource to find reasonable housing within your means. Keep a mirror handy if blame is critical to assign prior to moving on.

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RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 4:25:58 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The mortgage is filed and recorded with the local county. The book, page, and recording day of the mortgage is recorded and a matter of public record. Subsequent purchasers have to file their interest according to language in the mortgage and loan documents. As I said, considering the volume of mortgages, sales of assets, and companies, can some of these have been misfiled? Perhaps...

...well, isn't it as simple as popping down to the records department and simply checking? Or at least asking that if someone says, "I own your house now" they at least have to prove that they do?
To be fair, ought not apply if the entity doing the repossesing is the same entity you took the mortgage out with. However, if it's a different entity isn't the burden of proof on them? If not, and if i were a dishonest man, i can see a great opportunity for a scam.

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RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 4:41:06 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
..well, isn't it as simple as popping down to the records department and simply checking?

If should be, often is, sometimes it isn't.

quote:

Or at least asking that if someone says, "I own your house now" they at least have to prove that they do?

Usually it only a matter of referring to the book and page number and filing date of the original mortgage.

quote:

To be fair, ought not apply if the entity doing the repossessing is the same entity you took the mortgage out with.

To be fair, shouldn't people pay what they owe? Rhetorical...

quote:

However, if it's a different entity isn't the burden of proof on them? If not, and if i were a dishonest man, i can see a great opportunity for a scam.

Maybe the same people who were 'fooled' by the loan closing could be fooled here, however they don't get the chance.

However, if you took the time to take even a cursory glance at the requirements I provided for a CA foreclosure, you'd see the many steps a lender is required to go through before initiating foreclosure. Proof of note ownership is required.

From the source...
"A Trustee's Sale Guarantee Report is ordered from the title company providing all title information."
If you aren't the lender reported on that report, you have very little chance of foreclosing even if you have the original note in your possession as the lender.

I'll put a big disclaimer on this...I haven't been on either end of the foreclosure flogger for a LONG time. Things may have changed, but whatever the procedure is, it isn't relevant to the problem I have with the Congresswoman's proposal. Those reasons as well documented albeit ignored in anyone's response.

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RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 5:00:36 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

To be fair, ought not apply if the entity doing the repossessing is the same entity you took the mortgage out with.
To be fair, shouldn't people pay what they owe? Rhetorical...

...oh come on.....where have i ever suggested that people not pay what they owe? Why toss that line at me? Thats needlessly argumentative. All i've ever suggested is that people satisfy themselves that due process has been followed. What the hells' wrong with that?

quote:

However, if you took the time to take even a cursory glance at the requirements I provided for a CA foreclosure, you'd see the many steps a lender is required to go through before initiating foreclosure. Proof of note ownership is required.

...fair enough. Then its just a question of seeing that paperwork.

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RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 5:25:10 PM

Mercnbeth

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...oh come on.....where have i ever suggested that people not pay what they owe? Why toss that line at me? Thats needlessly argumentative.

Philo,
At first I was going to let this go, but that's one of the causation problems; too many have let flippant comments like that go without consideration of their impact.

Many more people were, and are, hurt by these people not paying their mortgages. All the investors, individuals as well as mutual fund managers, and union pensions, will never recover from these mortgage defaults. Many are too old to ever get back what has been lost.

Perhaps the 'investment' smokescreen put up by Congress was never intended to reflect reality, but many of these people bought into it thinking it was. Putting yet another encumbrance not only reducing the already poor reputation and expectations of government but stops further investment. Further investment by the private sector is the only viable work out. You're keeping that money on the side-lines as long as people are provided more excuses not to pay their obligations.

It may have been rhetorical as I said, you are correct saying it is argumentative, but many people need that argument made. Many would like to see someone from their government make it for them.

Regardless of how it's being billed, this is still a minority situation in the US. More people are paying their mortgages than those who aren't. It would be a nice 'Change!' if these people, and their meager remaining investments are protected, as vehemently as the "due process" for non-payers which seems to be taking priority.

As a wise man put it; "What the hells' wrong with that?"

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RE: Produce the note ! - 2/3/2009 7:54:01 AM

Termyn8or

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Hmmmm, interesting point someone brought up here. If they are in trouble because they didn't read the fine print, they are not likely to go through the rigamaroll of filing papers and all this with the courts. Those who would, presumptively, would probably have read the original contract.

T

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