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RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 6:51:30 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Well, the positions being represented here indicate that there are still an 'us' versus 'them' battle lines which will produce the failure I expected from the bail out.

Congress will represent that the bail out will be repaid back, then cause money, intended to be used for the pay back instead get used for litigation. People are 'honest' - forget it. Integrity - No place for it in todays society. Plagiarize and become VP. Don't pay your taxes and you can still obtain a Cabinet level position. I agree that the fiduciary responsibility of our representatives has long be abdicated. Now the rationalization goes so far as to allow them to vote for a failure bail up, justified by pay pack, while championing ways to delay that payback requiring more tax resources. Disclosing that plan of course, may not gotten the money, and the Lawyers lobby, banking lobby, real estate lobby, accountant lobby, sure didn't want that out there. 'They' are getting their 'bail out'. 'They' are getting their bonuses. 'They' are getting campaign PAC money. 'They' are being reelected. 'They' are getting the whole loaf. This idea represents a crumb. All paid with 'us' money. I just didn't realize that so many of 'us' don't care how there money is being used.

'They' did it to us, and now its time to 'do it' to 'them'. Here's a secret - 'them' have much more resources than 'us'. 'Them' have those Congressmen and Cabinet level position people on the payroll.

Sanctimonious justifications aside, it's your money being used for the bail out. Its your money being used to litigate and delay. It's your tax money 'investment' not getting any return.

'Stick it to them' in this case has the pragmatic effect of fucking yourself in the ass with habanero pepper juice as lube. Looks like some of 'us' just want to bend over. To them I say - Enjoy! You want to be upset with me for pointing it out - Enjoy that too! Me - I'm doing something to change my personal parameters. Meanwhile, I'll still demand integrity in my representatives, and continue to fight that losing battle regardless if anyone wants to join me.

PS -

LaTigress, Ironitulstahp, and anyone else:
I hope the plan I'm working on comes to fruition in the next 2-3 years. However, whether today for our 'Superbowl/pool/hot-tub/play' party (of which I have no idea how many will be showing up) , or 3 years from now an Umbria castle, or wherever we happen to be; I'd love to meet and see you all - you're all welcome.

And 'Ironitulstahp', you'll have no need to 'produce the note' for entrance. Unlike our politicians, I live up to my words as well as my responsibilities; without the need for political, or any agenda based rationalized hypocrisy.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 6:56:11 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Merc, please stay on topic. This is a thread about suggestions for foreclosed homeowners to use legal means in order to stay in their homes, not about bailouts, plagiarizing politicians or double standards for the haves and have nots.

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 7:06:07 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		The consequences of  the 'producing the note' position are exactly what I'm addressing - like it or not; that is the topic heading and exactly what I am addressing.

It's failure to consider consequences that generated these results in the first place. No 'cure' should be considered without considering consequences.

Sorry if that disturbs you because it doesn't generate the acceptance and sympathy you seek.

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 7:10:17 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I have no issue with "produce the note" I am sure from a legal stand point it probably has to be shown as is before the foreclosure would proceed in the courts.
I have the mortgage on my home here in Atlanta, the deed to my home in Indiana and every lease for every building I have a store in, and I would bet that the owners of the notes and leases also have their copy. If it were to be lost it doesn't negate my obligation to those whom I owe. I don't think the legislator knows what it is she is talking about... perhaps she isn't an attorney? If the mortgage is found to userous or somehow the owner of the mortgage is not clearly the lien holder the court would find in the homeowners favor. Blanket legislation in this case would just become more bureaucratic paper to be shuffled around.


Mark, to respond to your post, first, your assumption that , in a foreclosure proceeding, the mortgage holder is required to produce the note, is incorrect. Hence, the legal strategy suggested.

Your assertion that, if the note to one of your mortgaged properties was lost, it wouldn't negate your obligation to the noteholder is admirable, but, I suggest, doesn't apply to all folks who find themselves in foreclosure. For example, the case sighted above of the woman who paid 1/3 down on a modest home that she could afford and was sterred to a sub-prime mortgage with an ARM that diubled her mortgage payment in a years time. Again, what's sauce for the goose, etc.. While you may consider it a moral obligation to pay the debt, others may have a different point of view, given the immoral tactics used in predatory lending.

I don't know if Rep Kaptur is an attorney or not, although I suspect that she is, nevertheless, I say again that her main point is to obtain competent legal representation and take legal means to protect one's investment/assets.

Finally, no one has suggested legislation, blanket or otherwise , in these cases. It's simply a matter of taking legal steps and legal precedents that are in existence already.





_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 7:18:42 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The consequences of  the 'producing the note' position are exactly what I'm addressing - like it or not; that is the topic heading and exactly what I am addressing.

It's failure to consider consequences that generated these results in the first place. No 'cure' should be considered without considering consequences.

Sorry if that disturbs you because it doesn't generate the acceptance and sympathy you seek.


Dude, I seek neither acceptance nor sympathy. As I said, I am not in foreclosure.

Your assertions that somehow people in foreclosure seeking legal means to stay in their homes will somehow cause additional economic havoc in our declining economy is nonsense. It is the foreclosures themselves and the resultant over abundance in available housing and consequent drop in house values that are at the root of the decline. As you noted, the castle in Italy which you are negotiating to buy has dropped over 50% of it's market value in just a few months, from 10 million to 4 million. While you may be creaming your pants at the thought of such a bargain, it's roots lie in the current world -wide financial crisis due, in part to predatory lending.

My asking you to stay on topic is because of your usual tactic of trying to muddy the issues by introducing seemingly related subjects that only serve to blow smoke and distract from the issue at hand.

Btw, merc, please address what objection you have to people using legal means in order to protect their assets/investments. You're not a commie, are you ?


< Message edited by cjan -- 2/1/2009 7:21:05 AM >

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 7:48:39 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

merc, please address what objection you have to people using legal means in order to protect their assets/investments. You're not a commie, are you ?

Where did I object to their "'legal means"? I point to consequence and I object to any abdication of responsibility as a matter of course, and don't rationalize any means of doing so. I don't need to suggest 'commie' or label the effort as anything else than what it is - trying to cheat, or at minimum, trying to defer contractual obligation and responsibility.

I object to a Congresswoman championing a effort which would produce a hindrance to the 'bail out' she sold to the public as an 'investment'.

You need to use names and call them 'predatory lenders'. How are they called by the people who got out before the fall who used these same 'predatory lending' tools to trade up, compile property, make great profits, and move on prior to the 'fall'? Your issue is one of timing. Sorry - it doesn't justify "sticking it to 'them'" especially now, when 'them' is funded by us.

Why haven't you ever addressed any of those consequences? You just like the result for whatever reason. You claim to be for those injured. Well lets clue you in then. There are many, many, many, many, many more people who are victims of paying taxes who didn't get to live in a house above their means for a day. Now you want these victims tax money to pay for the 'them' who did live in those houses for one more day.

You're very specific in who you want to help - non paying squatters who want to continue to live in a house they couldn't afford to purchase any other way, but through 'predatory lending'; who are now are impeding the repayment of tax money given to the financial institutions.

Okay - go for it.

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 8:46:42 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		merc, if you have no objection to people using legal means to stay in their foreclosed homes and to protect their assets and investment then we have no argument. The rest is just smoke. I never referred to people who have bought homes above their means, with no hope of meeting their financial obligations. The only example I gave was a woman who put 1/3 down on a modest (147K ) home and was flim-flammed by a predatory lender into a sub-prime mortgage with an ARM.

What I call people who got out before the fall who "used these same 'predatory lending' tools to trade up, compile property, make great profits, and move on prior to the 'fall'?" is lucky. You may be one of them, I dunno.

quote:

There are many, many, many, many, many more people who are victims of paying taxes who didn't get to live in a house above their means for a day. Now you want these victims tax money to pay for the 'them' who did live in those houses for one more day.


I fail to see how any tax payer would pay a nickel in the event that a foreclosed homeowner used legal means to stay in their home. The loser would be the predatory lender who, cynically and eyes wide open, sold them mortgages and then re- packaged them multiple times and , perhaps, sold them overseas without giving a shit what the consequences were for the homeowner or the investor. I just don't see how a scrupulous capitalist like you could object to an investor taking all legal means to protect their investment, unless you have a double standard here.

quote:

You're very specific in who you want to help - non paying squatters who want to continue to live in a house they couldn't afford to purchase any other way, but through 'predatory lending'; who are now are impeding the repayment of tax money given to the financial institutions


Actually, the squatters to whom you refer aren't , necessarily, non-paying. Many of them, like the example of the woman who paid 1/3 down on her home, have paid a substantial amount into their homes. As to the predatory lenders who put their own dicks into the wringer, have accepted many hundreds of billions of dollars in tax payers' money as a bail-out and continue to give themselves tens of billions in bonuses for a job not done and, in the process, screwed their stock holders...I say, fuck 'em.

Btw, merc, a few foreclosed homeowners protecting their assets/investment won't amount to a drop in the bucket in our current financial meltdown. C'mon, dude, you know better than that.


< Message edited by cjan -- 2/1/2009 8:49:21 AM >

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 1:55:39 PM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		Cjan, you are telling me that there has to be no documentation of indebtedness to sue for foreclosure?
Every time I have ever stepped into court to file a claim or lien I have had to produce everything but a birth certificate.... I have never been foreclosed upon so I have no clue and my legal experiences have been limited to being the son of a trial lawyer and within the small claims courts so, I have no "real knowledge" of such things but, would be shocked to find that there has to be no documentation in the way of the original documentation.


_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 2:11:34 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		You are never going to convince Merc so why try. I actually agree with what he says about personal reponsibility, he just seems a bit blind to just what has happened here.

Now Merc, don't get offended here as I express my observation. Just like stupid people think others are also stupid, Merc suffers the same condition. He is well educated enough to consider paying four big ones for a property, therefore thinks that everyone else should have the business accumen to be able to do that. Actually I agree they should, but in reality they don't.

We all think everyone is or should be like us, and that cuts across the complete socio-economic strata. I agree, people should read what they sign and think things over carefully. But they don't. And there really is a bad part.

The bad part would be to make it illegal to take advantage of the stupid, but that is not feasible. First and foremost because it would put unconsitutional limits on Citizens' ability to contract. Another reason would be that if the government enacted such a law they would have to bust themselves. Can't have that now can we.

Buying this place the main decision was whether to take it on a thirty or a fifteen. Saving about 1.2 points on the interest for the life of the loan it seemed clear to take the fifteen because that amounted to around ten percent of the total interest per month. Evereybody should be like me, yup. When I get to the point in the contract where it says "you're monthly payment can be adjusted" I want SILENCE in the room while I read that part very carefully. I want to know exactly how and why. Others may say "just skip that part", but Mamma didn't raise any fools here. Welll, in all honesty.......

I did loan out $1,500 to a supposed friend who never paid me back. You see in the city there are poor people, and I have rules about loaning money, like I won't loan you your entire rent unless there is a valid proven reason that you ARE getting ALL the money soon and this is just a delay. Otherwise it is limited to like a hundred bucks. Over the years I've learned, if you loan someone a whole month's worth of bills you are not likely to get that money back. But the $1,500 was not for bills, it was for a down payment on a truck. Now the question of the week, who's fault is it that I am out the fifteen skins ? Is it mine for lending it to someone whom I shouldn't, or their's for not being a Man of their word and paying me back ? And believe me, this person had the means to pay me back many times over, but that's not the point. Can't and won't have nothing to do with it really because the result is exactly the same. Yes I lost a friendship over it, but that is not the case with banks.

HA, 'With friends like that, who needs banks ?'. Statement has a nice ring to it no ?

So break it down completely, who's fault is it I am out fifteen skins ? Mine or the dirty dog that can't/won't pay me back ? I think if you look deep into this issue, you might conclude that might be the crux of the whole division in opinion here.

Like, 'bit off more than you can chew' vs 'shoved down your throat'. Which is it. We will no doubt fall on the same sides of that fence as we do this one.

OK, here's for Merc.

[your company has gone into home loans and I am a customer, thusfar highly rated with good credit and in good standing]

"Yes, thanks for seeing me, we need to see about terminating my loan because I have just recieved word that my job is going overseas, and there are no real prospects out there. I have been there ten years and was pretty much promised a lifetime job, however I have found that I don't like the word 'promise'. What I ask of you is this, what is the best we can do to try to save some vestige of my credit rating and come out of this somehow. I have looked at values and it seems that after ten years I have a negative equity of about 12% of the whole thing due to the bubble bursting. The situation is thus, I got six months of work, unless I want to move to Ungickway. Other than that I'll have severance of course, and I am not totally broke. But if I am going to need a place to live I have to think about that. "

What say you ? I want to try to take care of this the right way, put it up for sale right away ? That doesn't work well. This is not because of an ARM, it is because of job loss, beyond the borrower's control. The income will never be replaced, he will work but definitely not make enough money to sustain the payments and is willing to reduce his lifestyle. He wants another house eventually so he doesn't want to trash his credit. He is acting as responsibly as is possible under the circumstances. You now sit behind a desk, sort of in judgement of the Man, and tell me what would be your decision.

T

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/1/2009 4:45:02 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Cjan, you are telling me that there has to be no documentation of indebtedness to sue for foreclosure?
Every time I have ever stepped into court to file a claim or lien I have had to produce everything but a birth certificate.... I have never been foreclosed upon so I have no clue and my legal experiences have been limited to being the son of a trial lawyer and within the small claims courts so, I have no "real knowledge" of such things but, would be shocked to find that there has to be no documentation in the way of the original documentation.



No, Mark, I'm saying the opposite.That's what "produce the note" means. The confusion may be coming from your assumption that "I am sure from a legal stand point it probably has to be shown as is before the foreclosure would proceed in the courts. " In a typical foreclosure proceeding , no note has to be produced by the mortgage "holder" unless it is demanded by the homeowner. Due to numerous re-selling and re-packaging of the original mortgage, an actual, legal note is often not available because, in their greed and haste, someone often fucks up.

Your assumption is typical of most homeowners who are in foreclosure. Hence the recommendation to obtain competent legal counsel .


< Message edited by cjan -- 2/1/2009 5:30:21 PM >

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 6:57:52 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

merc, if you have no objection to people using legal means to stay in their foreclosed homes and to protect their assets and investment then we have no argument.
Yeah we do - wasted assets, wasted time, and wasted focus. I also have a big problem with any legislator who misrepresents the intent of any use of tax funded program. If the Congresswoman wanted to just payoff her PAC-masters and give money to the financial institutions with no payback provision from the 'squatters'. Payoff the mortgages for the people who can't pay them without telling us fools who do that we're going to get our tax money back someday. Raise the prospect of needing more tax sources to the point you where you generate the current economic result of nobody wanted to invest. It's one sure way to make this prediction come true - "things will get worse".

quote:

flim-flammed by a predatory lender into a sub-prime mortgage with an ARM.
No - she used a tool to get into a low payment on a house. The tool broke. Sorry, but it's a result of her decision to use a 'trick' loan program to give her more disposable income for a short period of time, if not to buy a house she shouldn't have qualified for any other way.

quote:

What say you ?
My cost of funds is 0.25% it costs me 200 basis points to turn on the lights - I want payments equal to 2.25% of your mortgage balance per month, until the property is sold or your situation changes.
quote:

 I want to try to take care of this the right way, put it up for sale right away ? That doesn't work well. This is not because of an ARM, it is because of job loss, beyond the borrower's control.
One has nothing to do with the other. Put it up for sale at market price, at market rates. You're perspective is personal. People have money people are buying houses. You'll have a outstanding balance because you bought on the wrong side of the investment curve. Sorry to hear that - hoped you enjoyed living in the home for as long as you did. I guess its time to move on. Good luck to you. 
quote:

The income will never be replaced, he will work but definitely not make enough money to sustain the payments and is willing to reduce his lifestyle.
Sorry to hear about that - that's why I'm willing to work with you. It's a shame your elected officials allowed that to happen. You should vote them out of office. 
quote:

He wants another house eventually so he doesn't want to trash his credit. He is acting as responsibly as is possible under the circumstances.
Well, trashing your credit will be up to you. I'll give you the same deal on any resulting balance after its sold. Pay it, and I'll keep your loan reported as current. Don't and it will be reported under that condition.  
quote:

You now sit behind a desk, sort of in judgment of the Man, and tell me what would be your decision.
"judgment of the Man." What to you think T - you think the 'Man' was thinking ahead and should be rewarded for this result? Maybe they and you are a product of the 'everybody gets a trophy' philosophy. Not a knock, but an observation. That, 'everyone wins' training is a false reality and didn't prepare them for the realities of life - like this situation. Where's my trophy, becomes where's my house and they are looking from benevolent parent, care-taker, coach, nanny; to get it for them. Most of those kids didn't know how to handle having to work, or needing to produce, or taking responsibility to generate a 'trophy'. They, like these people, have a difficult time being accountable for their actions and dealing with the consequences. As I said before, maybe it's the result of a concerted effort to generate a population looking to a 'nanny' to 'kiss it and make it all better'. Is that judgment or pragmatic reality? Whatever it is - There it is...

quote:

Now Merc, don't get offended here as I express my observation. Just like stupid people think others are also stupid, Merc suffers the same condition.
Truly T, if so convinced of your "intelligent" approach, why the need to try insult? Yeah - I was "too stupid" to turn down a loan program for a $10 million place down the street and I'm 'slumming' it here. Besides I don't think of these people as stupid, I don't call them anything. I'm sure there were plenty of reasons they wanted to back end their mortgages to live in a place they couldn't afford. I just fail to see those reasons as good excuses to try and find a way to not pay now and not live up to their obligations. What I don't feel is that this minority of non-payers should be allowed to continue to not pay while their 'rent' is being paid by people who didn't use the same rationalized reasoning to live beyond their means.

Your funding these self deceptive people with your own tax money; apparently you like it and the legislators who conned you into believing that the 'bail out' is an investment. If I remember, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you support the past bailouts and the one in process; following the Bush plan. I didn't support any, and don't want my money going to facilitate failure. I don't see any positive outcome, because I don't view any additional government involvement in my daily life as positive. I don't like it, and I'll continue to point out the most likely outcome - failure. Facilitating failure is one sure way of getting others to accomplish it. Soon, there won't be any success left to foot the bill. Look at CA as an example, always at least 5 years ahead of the curve, and see the exodus of businesses, jobs, and people who have the resources to make a change; and you're looking at the future of this folly. 

I think now, as I thought 4 years ago when buying this place. I could 'qualify' for more - but couldn't afford more. I am not willing to 'bail out' those who decided the other way. But I don't need to refer to them as idiots; if they are fortunate and have the ability to learn, they know that already. 

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 2/2/2009 7:03:16 AM >

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 7:06:47 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		It's not guaranteed that I ever agree with Merc on anything political, but I do agree with his point of view expressed on this issue. Much like he, I have never borrowed anything even CLOSE to what the mortgage lender suggested I could. I know what I can afford and what I am able to handle if I should have to find a job that pays much less.

I honestly cannot feel bad for people that jumped on the flimsy mortgage gravy train and are only now realizing it was stupidity on their part. I grew up with sayings like "If it sounds too good to be true....." and a belief in hard work. Not every American citizen deserves to own a home. Where I come from, you work hard, you save for a down payment, you get a 30 year fixed mortgage for a house no bigger than you need, then you pay the 30 year loan off in 15. If you cannot afford to make double or triple payments, you had better rethink your choice of house and mortgage amount.

Many people made terribly stupid choices. Give me one valid reason why my tax money should bail their ass out??


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 7:29:57 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		merc and LaT, how do you figure that your tax dollars are going to "bail out" foreclosed homeowners ??? No one is suggesting anything of the kind. In fact, the 350 billion TARP funds spent so far has gone to bail out the financial institutions. Not one penny to distressed homeowners.

Also, although some homeowners bought above their means, by far, most who are in distress are in that situation due to their homes ( and any equity they may have in it )  losing value because of the volume of foreclosures and , hence, availability of Short Sales and bank owned ( foreclosed ) properties on the market. I know, I work in this field, besides, the figures are there for anyone who cares to look. Some have lost their jobs...unemployment is at a 30 year high and rising. It's not about a few who bought above their means.


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 7:44:16 AM   
SilverMark


Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline 		When it comes to responsibility some are weak and therefore they will have to pay the price. If they were truly swindled in some fashion that is an entirely different event. I have yet to hear the number of these people that were speculating and took a gamble on the house price continuing the upward spiral that had occurred the 5 years previously. There are indeed a number of crooks in the mortgage business as there are in most businesses and if that is the case, I do indeed feel for those about to lose their homes if it was a matter of reaching beyond one's grasp to realize a profit then THEY LOSE!
I remember scrimping and saving to buy my first home with 20% down and the mortgage company doing everything but crawling up my ass with a microscope to make sure I could pay for it. I learned some valuable lessons and never over extended myself nor did I pay attention to Real Estate salespeople or mortgage bankers as to what my budget could afford.  I am more liberal than most but on this issue unless there really is a fraud committed on the part of the mortgage company, I am sorry but looks like those folks will be renting their next home. At some point we must fix the issue and that means some tough decisions have to be made, if there is any solace to be taken in that regard, the company doing the foreclosure will also stand to lose millions and some even billions. Karma is a BITCH!

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 7:55:24 AM   
nysian


Posts: 11
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: New York City / Babylon The Great
Status: offline 		this may sound like utter crap... im only 36 so forgive me for any insults not intended..

but seriously... i think that the money this country just lost from that dumbass mortgage tomfoolery was a DIRECT result of the "Home Economics" part of school teaching needing to be seriously upgraded,, modernized, and expanded for the ADD 21st century. I ALSO think that there were  some serious educational generation gaps that occured (in the home) during the rift within that culture between late 50s and 80s (beat era to end of hoippy movement/disco era)

these two things contributed .. it seemed to me.. to a generation fo folks unable to resist the "keeping up with the jones" mentality... as someone who left the US for 5 years and came back in 2005.. I swear to god it seemed liek all americans became much more BLING BLING FLAVOR FLAVOR yALL while i was gone.. including their choices in homes.

i betcha that throguh research of the situation would indicate that it was primarily american born under the age of 45s that caused the majority of the mess..

but dotn get me started.. as a black american male i wouldnt want to see the end figures broken down into sub groupings.

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

as a project manager for almost 16 years.... education is 99 percent of any problem when idiocy is involved...

anyways.. i agree with the last three posts most.. as a soon to be but not in a while home owner.. you gusy gave lotsa food for thought.

(in reply to SilverMark)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 8:02:31 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

merc and LaT, how do you figure that your tax dollars are going to "bail out" foreclosed homeowners ??? No one is suggesting anything of the kind. In fact, the 350 billion TARP funds spent so far has gone to bail out the financial institutions. Not one penny to distressed homeowners.

Also, although some homeowners bought above their means, by far, most who are in distress are in that situation due to their homes ( and any equity they may have in it )  losing value because of the volume of foreclosures and , hence, availability of Short Sales and bank owned ( foreclosed ) properties on the market. I know, I work in this field, besides, the figures are there for anyone who cares to look. Some have lost their jobs...unemployment is at a 30 year high and rising. It's not about a few who bought above their means.



If not our tax money in some way, where do you propose the money will come from?

The reality is that NO ONE DESERVES to own a house. It is a privilege, not a right. If you do something to negate that right, you lose it. It doesn't matter whether it is your fault or fault of circumstances.

I've been fighting a tax problem for 4 years now. I had to take a second mortgage out to get the state off my back and now the IRS is knocking. Let's just say that IF $50,000.00 in unmarked bills showed up on my desk, no questions asked, my stress level would drop considerably. I didn't create this tax mess, not directly. I didn't set up the messed up IRS system that neglected to contact me, and added on fines and fees for years before realizing they felt there was an error. Yet, somehow, I am still liable for paying for the whole mess. Yes it sucks, yes I am fully aware I am not directly responsible. BUT, I still have to pay the tax attorney to deal with it AND......work out some rediculous high interest payment plan with the IRS that I really cannot afford. But you know, as shitty as it is, it is my shit. My shit to deal with whether fair or not. And I am. I'm not going to run around whining and begging someone else to take care of it, or whine about how unfair it is. It just is what it is.

I also know that if I lost my home tomorrow, as sucky as it would be, I would survive just fine. Renting would not kill me and it will not kill the people that are losing their homes now.

Sometimes life sucks. You deal and move on. You slap a smile on your face, laugh, and........c'est la vie.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 2/2/2009 8:21:31 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 8:06:07 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

merc and LaT, how do you figure that your tax dollars are going to "bail out" foreclosed homeowners ??? No one is suggesting anything of the kind.
When the stimulus money was paid to the financial institutions with the promise the money would be an investment paid back by the mortgagees - the money spent either in litigation or by forgiving mortgages balances and/or payments is tax money. Supporting this initiative, the stimulus or the recommendation of delay tactics is no different that supporting bonus payoffs going to corporate executives. It's not their fault that their contracts call for bonuses and Congress didn't put any conditions on the use of bail out money. It's not their fault that they were coned by lawyer generated contractual language. Selective rationalization is the worst form of agenda disclosing hypocrisy.

Take the same money and/or give it to someone/something that will solve the problem - not to the people (financial institutions or individuals) who caused it and allocating resources will perpetuate it.

Meanwhile, if you have any disposable income, donate to anyone running against the incumbent; especially those like the OP references who find it necessary to misrepresent, check that LIE, in order to generate a payoff to their PAC paymasters.
Edited to add:
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
I've been fighting tax problem for 4 years now. I had to take a second mortgage out to get the state off my back and now the IRS is knocking.

Wow - But you know if it was more than $100k, you'd be qualified for a Cabinet post in President Obama's administration!

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 2/2/2009 8:17:07 AM >

(in reply to cjan)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 8:30:14 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nysian


but dotn get me started.. as a black american male i wouldnt want to see the end figures broken down into sub group



Funny, you don't look like a black American male.

Maybe it's the lighting on my computer.

(in reply to nysian)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 8:34:06 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: nysian


but dotn get me started.. as a black american male i wouldnt want to see the end figures broken down into sub group



Funny, you don't look like a black American male.

Maybe it's the lighting on my computer.



Mine also. I even asked the FedEx guy (a black american male) what his opinion was. He laughed, fist nudged me on the shoulder and said "honey, that ain't no dude!"

AND Merc, dammit, if I could qualify for that cabinet post I would be able to write a check to the IRS for the whole darned thing!

Be vewy vewy careful with tax guys named David, from Australia. They "create" great returns getting you......great returns. Show you how legit all of it is, then disappear with all the documentation, when the REAL tax man comes asking questions...


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 2/2/2009 8:37:18 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Produce the note ! - 2/2/2009 8:46:44 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

merc and LaT, how do you figure that your tax dollars are going to "bail out" foreclosed homeowners ??? No one is suggesting anything of the kind.


When the stimulus money was paid to the financial institutions with the promise the money would be an investment paid back by the mortgagees - the money spent either in litigation or by forgiving mortgages balances and/or payments is tax money. Supporting this initiative, the stimulus or the recommendation of delay tactics is no different that supporting bonus payoffs going to corporate executives. It's not their fault that their contracts call for bonuses and Congress didn't put any conditions on the use of bail out money. It's not their fault that they were coned by lawyer generated contractual language. Selective rationalization is the worst form of agenda disclosing hypocrisy.





merc, merc, the money spent in litigation by foreclosing financial institutions is a mere tiny drop in the bucket compared to, say, the tens of billions in bonuses paid to executives of same. By the way, the litigation to which you refer is called due process and is guaranteed by the Constitution to citizens before being deprived of their homes. Again, what is being suggested by the "produce the note " strategy is simply availing ones self of due process under the law.

The part of your post that I highlighted is truly laughable, merc. C'mon, we all didn't just fall off the back of a cabage truck ! Those poor, poor executives, my heart bleeds for them. I don't believe that their "contracts call for bonuses". Bonuses for these top level executives are dispensed by the Boards of Directors at annual meetings of these corporations, in otherwords, by themselves. I do however agree with you that Congress bungled the oversight and conditions imposed on them before providing TARP funds.

I also agree with your statement that "Selective rationalization is the worst form of agenda disclosing hypocrisy." Your highlighted comment is, imo, the hight of selective rationalization.


_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 60
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