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Race - 1/31/2009 6:49:59 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Let's square up on definitions quickly. Racist means someone proud of their race, nothing more except possibly to live up to the ideals of one's forefathers. Prejudice is expecting a certain attitude or whatever from someone based on their race, and more prevalently in the US, skin color. Bigotry is thinking one is superior due to their heritage, and for no other reason. These may not be excatly according to Webster, but they are within the following text.

Now I was born and bred racist and prejudiced, but not bigoted. The racist part was not a big thing, but since I had some warriors in my heritage, they expected me to go into the military, and so forth. I hope I wasn't too much of a disappointment.

The prejudice part was unlike anyone would get today, see it was not chiefly white/black. It was don't trust Italins with certain things, French, Ukrainians. Things like that. It was not a totally black/white thing at all. In fact neighborhoods were fairly segregated when I was young and back then I rarely saw any Black people.

So in some of my time, in introspection I have come up with a theory. Well a proposed theory, on why it is so hard for some to give up on the bad aspects of racism, prejudice and bigotry. Because it involves family.

This is hard to word. The "keep away" instinct is common to many animals. As they, in the wild, based on their instinct, run away from us, we run away from each other. Take the case of the racially segregated comunities of the past, there could still be fueds.

Remember Romeo and Juliet ? How about the Hatfields and the McCoys. You should be able to visualise a Hatfield saying about his daughter "I would rather see her marry a ______ than a lowdown McCoy". From where do such attitudes spawn ? Is it natural to have an aversion to one of another race just because they are different ? Or did something happen in the past ? Is it a grudge ?

Or is it more like schools (sp-skoals ?) of fish, where there is simply a natural instinct to be with one's "own kind". Even if that's so, do the fish attack each other (other than to eat them) ? I mean fish seem to have the ultimate peace plan, if you can't swallow it, leave it alone.

Maybe part of my point is also that you can't really unlearn anything, but you can learn beyond it. We have learned beyond our fear of fire and the weather. Most societies have moved beyond the fear of the suprnatural.

moved beyond the fear
learned beyond the fear

listen to myself !

Is fear the root of it all ?

T
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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 6:54:45 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Is fear the root of it all ?



First, there is no such thing as race; "racism" comes, therefore, from a misconception. Racism is not about self-pride: it's about the erroneous belief that one is superior to others because of Mendelian traits.

Secondly, I believe that yes, fear is the root of it all, and the route of all hatred.



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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 7:29:25 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Race is a social construct and fear of the stranger is the root of prejudice and hatred.  Fear of the unknown is a powerful motivation.

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 7:49:58 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		OK kit, might as well settle this.

I completely understand your idealist projectrion that there is no such thing as race, but that is what it is. While I agree that we are all part of the human race, I also agree that a dog is a dog. Some shun this type of analogy, but bear with me.

A labrobdor is a dog. A terrier is a dog. A shepherd is a dog. A spaniel is a dog. They can breed. They are not usually inherently violent toward those of other breeds, except maybe pitbulls or whatever that only eat gunpowder and barbed wire and such.

They can tell your race by your skull almost a hundred years after your death. There are differences. There have been differences in the development of language as well, because of differences in the soft palate in Orientals for example. All in all, I have my doubts that human life started all at once in one place.

Some are vehemently opposed to the dog analogy, but keep with it, if you intend to retain a reputation for an open mind (ummm). The different breeds of dogs out there have come from all over the world, but some don't mix very well. Certain of the hybrid or "engineered" breeds do have an unexplained hostility to one another, some even to each other of the exact same breed. One might wonder how they would ever breed but, well, they do. Sound familiar ?

You know I am comparing myself to dogs here. I am confident in my humanity, and it has no effect. I could do something stupid that looks feminine, and someone could make a joke about me being a "closet fag" or some shit and it wouldn't bother me at all.

But if someone is not secure in their orientation, they become the most defensive the most quickly. I know I am not a dog, but the subject is quite complex and I needed an analogy.

I still compared myself to a dog. I like dogs. I like cats too, and cats and dogs like me. But I know I am not one. I simply drew an analogy.

At any rate, to actually appreciate our similarities, we have to see that it is real. If there are real similarities there are no doubt real differences. If we are to recognize what is real, that means ALL that is real. That means our differences as well, and ignorance of those is simply ignorance.

I hope this helped.

T

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 7:54:04 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Term, your canine theory flies in the face of science. You cling on to outdated notions that have no grounding in any kind of genetic reality... but you asked whether fear was at the root of racism, and yes, it is. And fear stems from ignorance. Educate yourself, please! You're intelligent, and you can handle the truth.

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 7:58:59 PM   
YoursMistress


Posts: 894
Joined: 12/17/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Let's square up on definitions quickly. Racist means someone proud of their race, nothing more except possibly to live up to the ideals of one's forefathers. Prejudice is expecting a certain attitude or whatever from someone based on their race, and more prevalently in the US, skin color. Bigotry is thinking one is superior due to their heritage, and for no other reason. These may not be exactly according to Webster, but they are within the following text.



I have to wonder if, by justifying the definitions to a dictionary, you are posting what you know will ultimately incite emotional responses far after the original post has drifted off into previous pages.  When William Jefferson Clinton asked his inquisitors to clarify what the definition of "sex" was in the contest of the investigation, and he declared that by that definition he never had sex with Monica Lewinsky, he was absolutely right, and at the same time lying to the entire country.  Are you deliberately poking at the readers, or naive in thinking that everyone will read and agree to the stipulations of the original post? 

yours


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May your service of love a beautiful thing; want nothing else, fear nothing else and let love be free to become what love truly is. -- Hadewijch of Antwerp

As a rule, I don't like to make general statements.

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 8:23:37 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		kit you just don't get it do you ?

I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY, but in a limited (license invoked) vernacular.

We are in the human race, OK. But people are not the same, around the block or around the world, and I mean physiologically as well. Fly in the face of proven scientific facts, seventy five years from now they find your skeleton, they will know more about your origins than you do.

What I AM TRYING TO SAY, embrace those differences. They are not to be shunned. It sounds as if you think everyone in the world is the same, if so you need a better eye doctor. Some people like halubki and others like halumki. That is the same, other things are different. Much different.

But why are our differences to be shunned and hidden away. On a site like this of course I realize that some things are better left private, but when it comes to living life, growing a greater understanding of one another, why our differences are so profound at fucking that up because of certain people. We are not all the same, science proves it every day in new drug teting and such, and it has beeen proven so much in the fields of medicine, anthropology and a few other disciplines that you simply can't fly in the face of it.

And the more you try the worse you look. If you can't at least stipulate that we are akin to different breeds of a species, then leave it at that. If you will not move, then I am not going to wear out my keyboard. If you find a thread such as this offensive, you are invited to post in other threads. I am not going to argue with you until the end of time when I have scientific evidence on my side, which you totally ignore, somewhat like a Catholic.

I have said enough now. I stop now. Anyone else here thinking about this ? I didn't come here to argue with one person ad nauseum.

T

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 8:24:53 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		You can try and re-define the word "race", Term, but I'll stick with the concensus definition, as will damn near everyone else. No cigar.

Find me the original research whereby "they" can tell what someone's "race" was by their skull 100 years after their death.  I know finding stuff on teh Interwebs takes time, so take your time.

Your second post, with the doggie "analogy", is just flat-out goofy. Humans are not, with very few exceptions, dogs. No cigar.

A fish named Wanda Juliet. Uh-huh.
I was just marveling at my Wikipedia habits. I started out on a CHinese Cooking site, and went to Wiki to look up "Seitan"- wheat gluten, and ended up at Pastrami by way of
African Hebrew Israelites of Jerusalem
Christian Identity (Aryan nations-type religious nutjobs; Rove's base)
Survivalism
Underground Living
Coober Pedy
Outback
Dingo Fence
Swagman
Waltzing Matilda
Coolibah Tree
Billy can
Corned beef
Pastrami
with a few other sidetrips and diversions.

That's what some of your posts are like. I have no idea at all how you get off on some of the tangents you do. It's entertaining, I'll say that.   Peace

NO SUCH THING AS RACE!!!



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“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 9:30:43 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"I have to wonder if, by justifying the definitions to a dictionary, you are posting what you know will ultimately incite emotional responses far after the original post has drifted off into previous pages"

Given the progress of the thread I wonder if you might be right, although it was nt my intent.

T

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 10:12:07 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I read somewhere that most people are just comfortable being around people like themselves.
That makes sense.
They said that you really see it in the way people worship.
"Black" churches, "White" churches etc.
I always wanted to go to a "Black" church just to hear the music.

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 10:42:21 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

kit you just don't get it do you ?

I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY, but in a limited (license invoked) vernacular.

We are in the human race, OK. But people are not the same, around the block or around the world, and I mean physiologically as well. Fly in the face of proven scientific facts, seventy five years from now they find your skeleton, they will know more about your origins than you do.

What I AM TRYING TO SAY, embrace those differences. They are not to be shunned. It sounds as if you think everyone in the world is the same, if so you need a better eye doctor. Some people like halubki and others like halumki. That is the same, other things are different. Much different.

But why are our differences to be shunned and hidden away. On a site like this of course I realize that some things are better left private, but when it comes to living life, growing a greater understanding of one another, why our differences are so profound at fucking that up because of certain people. We are not all the same, science proves it every day in new drug teting and such, and it has beeen proven so much in the fields of medicine, anthropology and a few other disciplines that you simply can't fly in the face of it.

And the more you try the worse you look. If you can't at least stipulate that we are akin to different breeds of a species, then leave it at that. If you will not move, then I am not going to wear out my keyboard. If you find a thread such as this offensive, you are invited to post in other threads. I am not going to argue with you until the end of time when I have scientific evidence on my side, which you totally ignore, somewhat like a Catholic.

I have said enough now. I stop now. Anyone else here thinking about this ? I didn't come here to argue with one person ad nauseum.

T


If you study different countries and different cultures you will find that different peoples do things differently for the exact same reasons.

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Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

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Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 10:44:07 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Given the progress of the thread I wonder if you might be right, although it was nt my intent.

T



      Hope does spring eternal in minds that wander off the beaten paths, Term.  One never knows. 

     Once upon a time, I thought "rascism" meant treating people differently because they looked different.  I thought that was bad.  Now I see that the word has come to mean NOT treating people differently.  It's all very confuzzling, and I've decided it is best to just mostly leave it alone.

     Good luck with this one.  Sometimes a gem appears in the mix.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 10:52:40 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

OK kit, might as well settle this.

All in all, I have my doubts that human life started all at once in one place.



Why do people say things  like this?   Have you personally uncovered some fossil records to refute what is pretty much considered to be a universal fact?

< Message edited by domiguy -- 1/31/2009 10:53:17 PM >

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 10:56:21 PM   
blacksword404


Posts: 2068
Joined: 1/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

OK kit, might as well settle this.

All in all, I have my doubts that human life started all at once in one place.



Why do people say things  like this?   Have you personally uncovered some fossil records to refute what is pretty much considered to be a universal fact?


Well he is fighting God and science on that one.

_____________________________

Don't fight him. Embrace your inner asshole.

Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

Genuine catnip/kryptonite.
Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 10:59:59 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I read somewhere that most people are just comfortable being around people like themselves.
That makes sense.
They said that you really see it in the way people worship.
"Black" churches, "White" churches etc.
I always wanted to go to a "Black" church just to hear the music.


The women.  the problem with white churches is that the pews are filled with flat asses.

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 11:33:48 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Term, your canine theory flies in the face of science. You cling on to outdated notions that have no grounding in any kind of genetic reality... but you asked whether fear was at the root of racism, and yes, it is. And fear stems from ignorance. Educate yourself, please! You're intelligent, and you can handle the truth.

Well he starts off wrong anyway. Racism is simply coming to any conclusion based solely upon race other than upon what science can tell us with real certainty. Those are the few genetic differences like skin color and genetic predisposition or not...for acquiring a disease.

Bigotry is that belief in a person that their race or ethnic background is superior to another.

Prejudice is pre-judging and can but does not require it be upon racial judgement. One can show or speak of prejudice against anything. Most of us I am sure, have seen prejudice about the D/s. M/s BDSM lifestyle as it were.

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RE: Race - 1/31/2009 11:43:42 PM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline 		having races is not a problem...racism is. (if you look at history it sadly was always there it seems, at least prejudice about groups)
does it mean all races will be happily with eachother..hopefully...but not any soon I am afraid. We can't even live with people "of the same race".
Guess it is a human race thing.

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RE: Race - 2/1/2009 4:00:00 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		FR

Race is indeed a social construct, no one is 'white' or 'black' or whatever look at peoples skin, no one has a flawless colour. And racism is the dominant 'race' ie white people beliving that they are better than other races, this may be on a conscious or subconscious level. Simple really.

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I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

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RE: Race - 2/1/2009 4:19:37 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Many people have, and will continue to for centuries to come, argued the toss over what defines 'race'. What is certain is that defining race is arbitrary and that by trying to isolate racial distinctions people are perpetuating racism. One thing is for certain tho, Termy, you were NOT born and bred a racist, you learned those behaviours and just as it took many years to formulate those prejudices, you can also take the time to get to know the root of your fears and overcome them. All it takes is the right incentives - as with old dogs.

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RE: Race - 2/1/2009 4:20:33 AM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		It's almost as if I can predict the future of this thread: firstly people will start debating if there is such a thing as different human races and then everyone is going to get bogged down in Darwin's theory of evolution and find it doesn't apply to human discussions.

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Nobody wants to listen to the same song over and over again!

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