quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


It's all a farce. All this argument proves is that Socialism blows chunks because once nanny government feels it has the duty to dictate whether or not we have a right to smoke it then must assume the duty to dictate our butter consumption, dictate what recreational activities may or may not be be too dangerous to pursue,  dictate whether or not our sexual choices are safe enough, and so on and so forth.

But thanks for playing anyway, it's been real fun, we'll see ya next time...  

quote:

ORIGINAL: shannie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
It's all a farce. All this argument proves is that Socialism blows chunks because once nanny government feels it has the duty to dictate whether or not we have a right to smoke it then must assume the duty to dictate our butter consumption, dictate what recreational activities may or may not be be too dangerous to pursue,  dictate whether or not our sexual choices are safe enough, and so on and so forth.

What really sucks though is when you have a police state anyway, with the government policing every facet of family and personal life (based on the lie that it's gonna lower insurance costs, or whatever) -- and  you don't even get free health care for it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Bad argument. Why do we recall cars, cribs, medications?  The gov't does not allow known faulty and harmful products to be sold or introduced into the market place.  Cigarettes are killers. No intelligent argument can refute this. 

I just quit. It sucks big ass.  I quit for a variety of reasons.  One, I would like to live as long and as a healthy and productive life as possible. Two, not allowed to smoke in any public buildings in Chicago (which makes perfect sense to me).  Three, why are these fucking things even allowed to be in the market place in the first place?  They are a flawed product. What pleasure is derived is not worth the cost of lugging around oxygen tanks or not being able to move around due to diminished lung capacity in the future.  They age you. One can spot a smoker by looking at their face, imagine what they are doing to your organs. They are gross.  They smell and make you stink as well. They yellow your teeth and your lungs and everything else that the smoke comes into contact with.

I loved smoking.  I joke around that life is not worth living without them.  They are a horrible product.  Their cost cannot be estimated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Bad argument. Why do we recall cars, cribs, medications?  The gov't does not allow known faulty and harmful products to be sold or introduced into the market place.  Cigarettes are killers. No intelligent argument can refute this. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
The gov't does not allow known faulty and harmful products to be sold or introduced into the market place.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
I just quit. It sucks big ass.  I quit for a variety of reasons.  One, I would like to live as long and as a healthy and productive life as possible. Two, not allowed to smoke in any public buildings in Chicago (which makes perfect sense to me).  Three, why are these fucking things even allowed to be in the market place in the first place? 

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Bad argument. Why do we recall cars, cribs, medications?  The gov't does not allow known faulty and harmful products to be sold or introduced into the market place.  Cigarettes are killers. No intelligent argument can refute this. 

There is a difference between items made for recreational and entertainment and those made to serve a more utilitarian purpose. Also, there are many arguments that can refute "cigarettes are killers". This is because all studies using cigarettes in humans use correlations. As such you cannot use it to establish causation. Yes, people who smoke tend to die more often and sooner than others. However, this could be from a myriad of other life choices acting separately or together with cigarettes to cause this. Either way, your logic is terribly flawed and it appears you are letting your emotions speak as opposed to research and a sound thought process.

Just to point out either you poor use of words or lack of thought on the subject you state:

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
The gov't does not allow known faulty and harmful products to be sold or introduced into the market place.

Just after you use the word "recall". To recall something it must first be introduced.

• Caution: Cigarette Smoking May be Hazardous to Your Health (1966-1970)
  
• Warning: The Surgeon Generall Has Determined that Cigarette Smoking is Dangerous to Your Health (1970-1985)
  
• SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy. (1985-)
  
• SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Quitting Smoking Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks to Your Health. (1985-)
  
• SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking By Pregnant Women May Result in Fetal Injury, Premature Birth, And Low Birth Weight. (1985-)
  
• SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Cigarette Smoke Contains Carbon Monoxide. (1985-)

• Smoking causes peripheral vascular disease
  
• Smoking causes emphysema
  
• Smoking causes mouth and throat cancer
  
• Smoking clogs your arteries
  
• Don't let children breath your smoke
  
• Smoking - A leading cause of death
  
• Quitting will improve your health
  
• Smoking harms unborn babies
  
• Smoking causes blindness
  
• Smoking causes lung cancer
  
• Smoking causes heart disease
  
• Smoking doubles your risk of stroke
  
• Smoking is addictive
  
• Tobacco smoke is toxic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush
William Lynn was just confirmed as the new Deputy Defense Secretary.

Yep ex-Raytheon LOBBYIST William Lynn as deputy defense secretary.

Just saying...this is the right thread....

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Well geez Sanity,I don't know how your going about doing it,but if your sex is high risk......perhaps your not doing it right.
Basically when you get right down to it .....its sort of insert tab A into slot B and repeat...repeat....repeat.
Get a little rythme going and repeat.No one need get hurt.
Unless....you want to get hurt.In that case you can't really call that high risk....thats just BDSM

quote:

domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Bad argument. Why do we recall cars, cribs, medications?  The gov't does not allow known faulty and harmful products to be sold or introduced into the market place.  Cigarettes are killers. No intelligent argument can refute this. 

There is a difference between items made for recreational and entertainment and those made to serve a more utilitarian purpose. Also, there are many arguments that can refute "cigarettes are killers". This is because all studies using cigarettes in humans use correlations. As such you cannot use it to establish causation. Yes, people who smoke tend to die more often and sooner than others. However, this could be from a myriad of other life choices acting separately or together with cigarettes to cause this. Either way, your logic is terribly flawed and it appears you are letting your emotions speak as opposed to research and a sound thought process.

Just to point out either you poor use of words or lack of thought on the subject you state:

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
The gov't does not allow known faulty and harmful products to be sold or introduced into the market place.

Just after you use the word "recall". To recall something it must first be introduced.

Please spare me any argument that cigarettes are not a health liability. I've smoked them for seven or eight years.  I know what they do to my body.  I can feel the shit in my lungs. I work in a field where the majority of my clients are around retirement.    I don't have smokers as clients...Too dead or too sickly.

Your's is the kind of post that I would normally tear into and quickly become moderated.  Laughable and not well thought out.

Here are some warnings and causation for you......

United States of America

• Caution: Cigarette Smoking May be Hazardous to Your Health (1966-1970)
  
• Warning: The Surgeon Generall Has Determined that Cigarette Smoking is Dangerous to Your Health (1970-1985)
  
• SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy. (1985-)
  
• SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Quitting Smoking Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks to Your Health. (1985-)
  
• SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Smoking By Pregnant Women May Result in Fetal Injury, Premature Birth, And Low Birth Weight. (1985-)
  
• SURGEON GENERAL'S WARNING: Cigarette Smoke Contains Carbon Monoxide. (1985-)

Though America started the trend of labelling cigarette packages with health warnings, today the country has one of the smallest, least prominent warnings placed on their packages. Warnings are usually in small typeface placed along one of the sides of the cigarette packs with colors and fonts that closely resemble the rest of the package, so the warnings essentially are integrated and do not stand out with the rest of the cigarette package.

Australia

In early 2006 a new initiative was introduced, with graphic images depicting the effects of smoking cigarettes to be displayed on cigarette packets. As of March 1, warnings must cover 30% of the front and 90% of the back of the box. The 10% of the back not occupied by a warning is used by the message "Sale to underage persons prohibited".
For cigarette packets, warnings include:

• Smoking causes peripheral vascular disease
  
• Smoking causes emphysema
  
• Smoking causes mouth and throat cancer
  
• Smoking clogs your arteries
  
• Don't let children breath your smoke
  
• Smoking - A leading cause of death
  
• Quitting will improve your health
  
• Smoking harms unborn babies
  
• Smoking causes blindness
  
• Smoking causes lung cancer
  
• Smoking causes heart disease
  
• Smoking doubles your risk of stroke
  
• Smoking is addictive
  
• Tobacco smoke is toxic

With each warning is an accompanying graphic, and detailed information on the back of the packet. In addition, cigar and loose tobacco packets show other, slightly altered warnings. These warnings target the misconception that alternative, non-cigarette tobacco products are less harmful.
Australian cigarette packaging laws also prohibit the use of terms such as 'light', 'mild', 'extra mild', etc. This is to counteract the impression that certain tobacco mixtures are less damaging to health than others. To the same effect, while the carbon monoxide, nicotine and tar content of particular brands of cigarettes used to be mandated, the display and/or advertisement these figures is now prohibited under the government's "All Cigarettes are Toxic" campaign.

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I really cannot believe that someone today can suggest that smoking is not a killer.  I love it.  I have just made the choice to live, age gracefully and live a long boring, and intolerable smoke-free existance.

Sanity, 100% correct... It is fucked up to tax them.  Either pull them or let people enjoy them.  Same with alcohol.  Don't play the hypocrite card. 

Oh yeah, in Chicago smokes are hovering around 8 bucks a pack. Just one more reason to quit.

I have never missed anyone like I miss my smokes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crush

here ya go:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/11/senate-approves-lobbyist-deputy-defense-secretary/

Senate Approves Former Lobbyist as Deputy Defense Secretary William Lynn was registered until July as a lobbyist for Raytheon Co., but the Senate looked past that to confirm him as the Pentagon's second-in-command.  AP Wednesday, February 11, 2009 show_baynote_guide("ArticleGuide"); WASHINGTON -- The Senate voted overwhelmingly on Wednesday to confirm William Lynn as deputy defense secretary, endorsing President Barack Obama's decision to waive ethics regulations by putting a former defense lobbyist in charge of day-to-day operations at the Pentagon. Republican Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Charles Grassley of Iowa expressed reservations before the Senate voted 93-4 to approve the nomination. McCain, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said he was disappointed Obama would backtrack on his promise to keep lobbyists out of the federal government. On his first day in office, Obama issued an executive order forcing individuals to wait two years before they could be hired for the agencies they had lobbied and to remove themselves from involvement in issues related to their former employers. "Obviously the American people were promised one thing but delivered another," said McCain, Obama's opponent in the presidential election. Grassley called into question Lynn's work as Pentagon comptroller during the Clinton administration. As chief financial officer, Lynn "advocated very questionable accounting practices that were obviously not in the public interest," Grassley told his colleagues on the Senate floor. Lynn was registered until July as a lobbyist for Raytheon Co., where he advocated for six programs: the Navy's new generation of destroyers called the DDG-1000 surface combatant; the advanced medium-range air-to-air missile; radar for the F-15 fighter jet; a new version of the Army's Patriot anti-missile program; the classified satellite network called the Future Imagery Architecture system, and the Multiple Kill Vehicle, a technology designed to counter ballistic missiles. Lynn has promised to remove himself from decisions involving these programs for one year. He also has promised in a recent letter to McCain that he would seek written permission from Pentagon lawyers for one year when "circumstances would cause a reasonable person with knowledge of the relevant facts to question my impartiality."