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"Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 8:31:03 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		So the concept is really easy to grasp - our vanilla friends might take umbrage if we call them, or refer to them as Vanilla...most don't think of themselves as "vanilla" and the way in which it is used can imply superiority and sound condescending...sort of a DUH issue...

And yet, I got caught in it.  Six of my best friends in the world and I used the term vanilla in reference to them.  It was casual, never even crossed my mind what I said might hurt anyone.   It has made its way around the circle, and it caused hurt feelings in people I would never want to hurt. 

So just a word of caution.  It is easy to get used to thinking of "us and them" and casually and carelessly throw out that term - Vanilla...and cause 31 flavors of hurt...


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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 8:33:10 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
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Status: offline 		There's no such thing as vanilla !!
Everyone has some kink or fetish

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 8:51:39 AM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim
And yet, I got caught in it.  Six of my best friends in the world and I used the term vanilla in reference to them.  It was casual, never even crossed my mind what I said might hurt anyone.   It has made its way around the circle, and it caused hurt feelings in people I would never want to hurt. 



The bolded portion is, IMO, the most important.  It sounds to me as if one person heard this reference and took it to mean something other than you intended.  That person's bias colored the word and the bias was passed along to your other friends.  Those friends made the mistake of taking the bias as the truth of what you said, rather than come to you and ask what you meant by it *before* they formed an opinion. 
 
Vanilla is just a word -- it has a neutral value.  As a metaphor, it represents a different "flavor" of activity that will appeal to some tastes and not others.  There's nothing inherently wrong with this.  I don't think people need to be especially careful when using the word "vanilla" to describe those without a taste for WIITWD, and I don't think you need to feel bad because you used it to describe your friends.  In your place, I would be much more offended that someone took it upon him/herself to place a value judgement on it that you didn't intend and then ran to your other friends to tell tales.  That's not a sign of a good friend.  In your place, I'd be more inclined to exclude that person from my conversations in the future.

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 9:11:57 AM   
Usako


Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline 		I don't use the term vanilla so I'm a-ok. lol

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 9:29:44 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

There's no such thing as vanilla !!
Everyone has some kink or fetish

I agree for the most part here as there are many 'vanilla' fetishes. In social circles or among 'vanilla' friends I don't even go there in conversation and tend to deflect conversation that does go there. I have had a couple women shake their head even after they brought up the subject BDSM and munches in the conversation. Now I let them tell me 'all about it.'

I don't think this was to 'feel-me-out' either but sometimes just to try and show their 'vanilla' disdain.

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 9:59:45 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Heh, there's many people who engage in bdsm that cop an attitude when it comes to kink-free people.

Some people just have to feel more amazing than they really are.


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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 10:02:00 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		I've always seen "vanilla" as more a word used within the Scene not outside of it.


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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 10:09:15 AM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline 		I never considered myself vanilla when i was married. I still snicker at the thought to be honest. Perhaps not into kink, but we were not boring.

I do not look at my friends as them verses me either. It just isnt in me to do that. I dont say oh my Christian friends, my Witches friends, Jewish friends, etc, it makes no sense to me. No one's relationship is a carbon copy, so i dont look at relationships this or that.

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 10:16:06 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds

I never considered myself vanilla when i was married. I still snicker at the thought to be honest. Perhaps not into kink, but we were not boring.

I do not look at my friends as them verses me either. It just isnt in me to do that. I dont say oh my Christian friends, my Witches friends, Jewish friends, etc, it makes no sense to me. No one's relationship is a carbon copy, so i dont look at relationships this or that.


Did someone say that vanilla was boring?

Where?

If someone has then I'd feel sorry for both the sex and the ice cream and the relationships they've had that led them to that belief.


< Message edited by thetammyjo -- 2/13/2009 10:17:10 AM >

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 10:27:05 AM   
junecleaver


Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
Status: offline 		I think vanilla particularly outside of the scene really can be scene as offensive.  If someone called me vanilla and especially if I weren't present when they did so...I would feel miffed.  Within the scene, I can understand the use of the word.  Even though, I find it usually doesn't describe whatever is being described very well.

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 10:41:16 AM   
oceanwynds


Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds

I never considered myself vanilla when i was married. I still snicker at the thought to be honest. Perhaps not into kink, but we were not boring.

I do not look at my friends as them verses me either. It just isnt in me to do that. I dont say oh my Christian friends, my Witches friends, Jewish friends, etc, it makes no sense to me. No one's relationship is a carbon copy, so i dont look at relationships this or that.


Did someone say that vanilla was boring?

Where?

If someone has then I'd feel sorry for both the sex and the ice cream and the relationships they've had that led them to that belief.



It is more of the impression I have gotten from people who are into BDSM. I would love to be wrong on that.
Thank you for clarifying.

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 10:48:51 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		There's no end of things for people to get *miffed* about.....lol

It's not TOO difficult to get your head around the fact that people who are *in* ( I use that word loosely) have terms for people who are *not in*.

In Dorset, ( a UK county) the locals call tourists *grockles*...... I get over it when I'm visiting Dorset...lol.
I don't mind being a grockle..... I don't live there, so I'm not *in* enough NOT to be a grockle. That's the rules.....lol

I don't think of a *them and us* ......I AM one of them..but I have to say that I don't know a single person who's *not into* my choices who'd be offended by some bdsm * term*.

agirl




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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 11:21:34 AM   
Godhand502


Posts: 20
Joined: 10/27/2008
From: Louisville, Kentucky, USA
Status: offline 		I don't think there is anything wrong with the term vanilla. If the shoe fits, wear it. Besides, its either calling them "vanilla" or "square". I think vanilla is less offensive than "square" or "L7". I have a vanilla friend that I brought to a munch last week. People commonly referred to him as vanilla. He referred to himself as vanilla. No feelings were hurt.

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 11:26:21 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		Could you define "L7"?

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 11:44:20 AM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		A reference to a hand gesture with one hand resembling an "L", the other resembling the numeral "7". When finger and thumb of opposite hands touch, the gesture resembles a square.

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 11:51:02 AM   
girlygurl


Posts: 6973
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: in the palms of His hands
Status: offline 		I'm just curious, what is offensive about the word "vanilla" even the implication of calling someone vanilla doesn't sound bad to me imo. I view it as distinguishing one person from another, that's all.

There are times when it's prudent to make that determination... Just ask Greedy and the Pirate... they did it for their wedding.

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 12:11:25 PM   
LinnaeaBorealis


Posts: 8595
Joined: 10/5/2008
From: Insanity & beyond
Status: offline 		Any word in any language can be hurtful to people who allow themselves to be hurt by it.  When we decide not to allow ourselves to be hurt by certain terms, they no longer have that power.  Case in point:  The Dyke March every year in San Francisco.  "Dyke" used to be a derogatory term, but we took it back & made it mean something positive.  It no longer had the power to hurt.  I don't set out to hurt others with my words & when it happens inadvertantly, I do apologize, but I don't think that I will stop using words because there is an infinitessimal possiblility that someone somewher might get their feelings hurt.



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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 12:51:25 PM   
Amaros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: girlygurl

I'm just curious, what is offensive about the word "vanilla" even the implication of calling someone vanilla doesn't sound bad to me imo. I view it as distinguishing one person from another, that's all.

There are times when it's prudent to make that determination... Just ask Greedy and the Pirate... they did it for their wedding.
The connotations are "bland", "generic", "mediocre", and that could be hurtful to those who feel they have distinguished themselves in ways outside the sexual arena. i.e., the implication of "Vanilla" is that you are lacking individuality, which may not really be the case, it is a generalization and generalizations often break down on the individual level - though I have known people who wear their mediocrity on the sleeves, most people resent the implication even if it happens to be true - most of us wish to be recognized and valued for ourselves.

It is, IMO, pretty much a throwaway term used within the community specifically to distinguish degrees of sexual adventurousness, and to some, perhaps an even larger extent, the attitudes, behaviors, mode of dress or expression etc., i.e., participation in the kink/alt subculture - because the term is used by subcultures outside the BDSM/kink community, Goth subculture for example has some even more insulting euphemisms and may take these distinctions more seriously than the typical kinkster in more or less reciprocal proportion to how oppressed they feel by whatever represents itself as the dominant culture.

Heh, reminds me of the whole "Disco sucks" thing sometimes, i.e., Rock vs Disco - they both emerged from essentially the same scene to begin with - just the usual friction at the margins of any cultural shift as it starts to fractally reiterate.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 2/13/2009 12:53:07 PM >

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 1:19:48 PM   
Nikitaa


Posts: 416
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Funny story. (I think is funny)
I not know word vanilla was used to describe not kinky people until I make profile on collarme. My kinky girlfriend and my sub never mention the word. This why I not originally understand purpose of vanilla ice cream cone next to my post and why I not become offended as some new people have become offended with vanilla cone.

I thought CM was offering all new forum people virtual ice cream.

This why in introduction forum I began offering all new people free chips and dip. I thought offering virtual food was collarme tradition. Later I realize mistake when I figure what Vanilla means. I still offer chips and dip (or other treats) in introduction. Now is Nikita tradition.

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RE: "Vanilla" can hurt Vanilla Friends... - 2/13/2009 1:40:52 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Best post on CM for an age ...LOL.

agirl


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