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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 8:24:22 AM   
Aynne88


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Allows and encourages? How about I just chose not to breed because I don't want to be a mother? More should go that route. Walk into a Wal-Mart for 5 minutes if you can stand it, that alone is a reason for not pro-creating. Unfortunately I do agree with the basic premise that more educated and less religious people are having fewer families or none at all and the ones that are not seem to producing litters. 

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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 8:31:20 AM   
Lockit


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Anyone, thing, entity that suggest's that rape is motivated by some reproduction something or other, rather than anger and the other things that rape truely is motivated from... is someone or an entity that I will consider garbage and not worth the read even if there is something else in the writing that might be of worth.  Every good lie has some truth it in.  I would not consider anything else they said worth my time to consider.  (I am a bitch like that.  I will simply be the dim witted, uneducated and closed minded one, who isn't evolving and do so in comfort.)

Seeing a man with a fist and putting it to your face, while tackling you to rape you isn't saying.. I want you to be my um's mama and spread my gene's.  They are saying I wish to control you and use you like the bitch you are and I want it to feel good to me.

Ask anyone who was raped if they thought their rapist was angry and controlling or if the rapist just wanted to reproduce... I will go by their answer's before some theory, especially a theory from a man who has never been there.

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 8:35:02 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Anyone, thing, entity that suggest's that rape is motivated by some reproduction something or other, rather than anger and the other things that rape truely is motivated from... is someone or an entity that I will consider garbage and not worth the read even if there is something else in the writing that might be of worth.  Every good lie has some truth it in.  I would not consider anything else they said worth my time to consider.  (I am a bitch like that.  I will simply be the dim witted, uneducated and closed minded one, who isn't evolving and do so in comfort.)

Seeing a man with a fist and putting it to your face, while tackling you to rape you isn't saying.. I want you to be my um's mama and spread my gene's.  They are saying I wish to control you and use you like the bitch you are and I want it to feel good to me.

Ask anyone who was raped if they thought their rapist was angry and controlling or if the rapist just wanted to reproduce... I will go by their answer's before some theory, especially a theory from a man who has never been there.


So ... your mind is made up ... don't bother you with any facts?

Got it.

Firm


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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 8:38:43 AM   
Lockit


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Which facts?  The fact's of the experienced rape victims I have worked with... the studies and personal experience?  Or the fact's of a theory which goes into so much fact that they lose fact's?  I guess I am closed minded.. and on this one... I doubt I will change my mind.

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 8:43:35 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Which facts?  The fact's of the experienced rape victims I have worked with... the studies and personal experience?  Or the fact's of a theory which goes into so much fact that they lose fact's?  I guess I am closed minded.. and on this one... I doubt I will change my mind.


What is your evolutionary explanation for rape in the human species?

Firm


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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 8:48:25 AM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

quote:

No. It has little or nothing to do with "social memory".

I was thinking under social memory as accumulation of knowlege and understanding (evolution of the information sphere in general). In terms of genetic evolution I am used of thinking that genetic traits propagate through offspring. It seems to me in human race preffered mate (traditionally women prefer strong, rich, smart) selection does not lead to more than average (rather less) offspring. For example poor and uneducated in average have more children than educated and rich. So leaving more copies of genes or even healthier children is not any more the purpose of selecting a mate. It is rather trivial though and obviously noticed.



Eh... why does this have a ring of Eugenics to me?

The theory of evolution also proposes that dominant species can often be the most cooperative species. A wolf pack is not a signal of weakness biologically among wolves neither is it a sign of such socially. The murder rate in many U.S. cities, however, might very well be a sign of a socially weak society just as a family wracked with domestic violence, drug addiction, and incestuous relations may signal a weak family culture.

And President Bush's Ivy League education and privileged background no more infers he is the progeny of biological superiority traits than Frederick Douglas servitude in slavery inferred he was the progeny of  biologically inferior traits.

And dare I say what most men or women like (especially women because men are more inclined to be led by their aroused erections) in contemporary America, has more to do with what television programing they are watching as they sit on their soft, ever growing, plump hind sides. Marylin Monroe would be considered "fat" by today's Hollywood and high fashion standards (not to mention most men today and yesterday don't like skinny women).

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 8:56:56 AM   
Lockit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Which facts?  The fact's of the experienced rape victims I have worked with... the studies and personal experience?  Or the fact's of a theory which goes into so much fact that they lose fact's?  I guess I am closed minded.. and on this one... I doubt I will change my mind.


What is your evolutionary explanation for rape in the human species?

Firm



Evolutionary explaination for rape in the human species?  Stunted emotional human growth and wellness.

I realize I may not see the bigger picture that you may see and know... I realize a lot of arguements that you could put before me and other's and I cannot argue much of what you might say.  I have always respected you and your lady and love some of the things I have read... but I cannot accept anything that suggest's some higher motive for rape other than the sick, twisted, angry, controlling and damaging thing it is to me and to other's.  If it is survival to some or evolution or whatever... cool... but I don't care to study that.  Unless these studies have found ways to stop it.

Ask William Bonin why he did what he did... or the many other crazies?  Study them... as many tried to do... getting lies from a liar... getting facts from crazy liar's.  What motivates a rapist?  Ask a rape crisis professional with more education than me.  I have yet to find one who suggested even that it was an evolutionary process of survival or reproduction and have never read such in this field.

I stood on the Leeza show and confronted the writer that was doing a book on William Bonin and would do so any day of the week.  She was studying him... learning what made him tick... and in one sentence I stopped that book and her lil project.  She shut the f up and I am glad she did.  So was the audiance.

Some of us will not see rape for anything than what it is in the moment of rape and afterwards... that is simply the way some of us will continue to view it.  And I had the backing of every family memeber there on the show that had their own experience with a rapist who turned murderer so he could keep himself out of jail by not leaving another talking victim like my brother.

As much as I respect you Firm... we will simply have to disagree on this one.  Hopefully with some respect.

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 9:21:16 AM   
FirmhandKY


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Lockit,

Rape is an intensely negative personal experience.  I understand that.

I do not claim to understand all the issues, either way.  I do know in order to combat it, that we must understand it, from a dispassionate point of view.  Which is difficult due to the emotional weight that it carries.

The Thornhill book is an attempt to understand rape in the context of evolutionary theory, and through scientific inquiry.  Some of the facts and theories go against the more commonly accepted social theories of rape, and do attract strong reactions from many people.

Such reactions, when integrated into a scientific approach, may well shed more, or better light on the issue, or even disprove some of Thornhill's basic theories.

But the end result - the best understanding possible - is the most critical aspect of the inquiry so that our best understanding can be used to minimize the damage, ameliorate the effects and to prevent the emotional destruction that this aspect of humanity causes to individuals and families.  Which is your goal as well.

I do not take offense at your comments, and understand your position (I think).  We can certainly disagree without being disagreeable.

Firm


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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 9:46:25 AM   
Lockit


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I agree that more needs to be known and believe that some will through trial and error get more information.  Most will be passionate about their work, but not need to go in with the passion for whatever that I or other's might have.  I would not make a good scientist in this or many other things.  I did want to go into the science of medicine and had my passion's, but that was far different than this.

Believe me, I wanted to understand and I studied other people's studies on some of these people.  I even read where some of the victim's of these well known rapist and murderer's were called party to it all as my brother was because Bonin would lie and he had an accomplice and he would misdirect things.  These guys were often smooth con men.  For years my brother was considered by many to be that accomplice until they found that my brother was the reason Bonin got caught by the Orange County Register... the police wouldn't listen to him.  A former victim that might have an agenda.  If it hadn't been for the OC Register Bonin would have killed more young men.  I can't see Bonin as wanting to reproduce anything but more damage to human beings for his own satisfaction.

We tried to see what was in Bonin's past that would bring this on.  We tried to get info on other's.  I have seen tv interviews and such and simply do not feel that anything I saw, done by anyone... tv or print, was actually getting anywhere honest with the victimizer's.  I feel it will have to come from some place else.

Until there are real answer's... I will stick with my own as it comes from actual experience's of my family, me personally and people I know in person.  That is evidence to me.

So I thank you for agreeing to disagree! lol 

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 3:02:48 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Hiya Firm,

One of the things I have found in reading Thornhill and a few other things, is that there is a big difference in forced procreation, and what causes most rapes. Now some of the fundamnetal repressions in rapist may be consistant with the Thornhill theories, which seemed very interesting to me. In most of the books, papers, etc. it seemed easier to discuss when looking at it as forced procreation and what triggers that as a compulsion that cannot be controlled.

As to the OP, no one is truly equal to another we are all different. I have a rather long post in a different section of these forums on equality. The system we are in is not equal either, but it has little to do with the genders as much as power. I believe in equal pay for equal work and equal treatment under the law, but I also believe that in general each gender has it's strengths in weaknesses. Once the right amount of strengths and weakness, combined with compatability, are mixed, you get a "whole".

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 4:44:42 PM   
powerplaying


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quote:

men fear the pussy and the power that comes with it. 


Really? It's hard to believe for guy like me who has sucked and fucked some of them.
The pussies seems pretty harmless, and there was no power coming along.
Playing with the toys can be fun, although not as much as whipping an ass.
Must be brainless guys who fear them. On the other hand, most people are brainless, ...

< Message edited by powerplaying -- 2/16/2009 4:48:57 PM >

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 4:53:47 PM   
Kana


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Nobody is equal.
any questions, go read John Rawls.
Everyone has some skills that give them advantages to others.
Externalities such as parents, country of origin, etc...all also have huge effects on equality.

I can honestly comprehend and respect the concept that all beings are created equal and should have some inalienable rights.
but God help the world if I have to start treating everyone equally because that will never happen.
Fuck.
The world is full of dickwads.

Me?
I am a pig.
I am an intellectual elitist.
Course referring to both Rawls and Pearl Jam in the same sentence,
"I won the lottery when I was born."
So I have some singular advantages that I didn't earn that gave me an advantage many others didn't have.

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 5:22:18 PM   
hopelessfool


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Which facts?  The fact's of the experienced rape victims I have worked with... the studies and personal experience?  Or the fact's of a theory which goes into so much fact that they lose fact's?  I guess I am closed minded.. and on this one... I doubt I will change my mind.


What is your evolutionary explanation for rape in the human species?

Firm



Dominance, Its why men rape men in prison, its why men rape children. Its a show of whos in power and whos not. Rape in effect breaks alot of people emotionally, making them able to be molded and manipulated under the rapist. It breeds fear of the rapist's gender, it breeds insecurity. With these weakness's the rapist can use the knowledge of what hes done to his victim as a way of making her consent to the treatment in some cases. Even so knowing that person is always out there, fearing just a little bit, the person that raped them, always looking over their shoulder, and living with that knowledge. It gives the rapist power over the woman. Dont get me wrong women can get over most of the truama of rape, as well as move on and lead happy producitve lives. but even mostly moved on even 10 years later 20 years later, that little tiny peice of you is controled by that person.

As for equality, i am equal to every male and every female in terms of worth, in terms of ability. my life is no less important or more important then any other person. However I can not do alot a man can do, just as a man can not do alot of what i can do. We are not equal in the sense of what we can do whats a strenght whats a weakness, but life in general isnt measured in how important a person is in my opinion. A kings life should be saved just as much as a peasents. However With out EACH gender well then wed all be screwed.

As for women being naturally submissive, most women didnt start being too "submissive" until the raise of one god religions, and even before it was simply easier to manipulate a man into doing what they wanted then doing it themselves.

The appearence of "submission:" doesnt mean submission, would you rather something you want get done, or would you rather everyone whos upset of what bits you posses being in power going O.o you sneezed at exactly 2:45 pm this afternoon You cant possibly know what your doing.  Its both genders behind the greats of the world. its also both genders behind the destructions of the world. Men arent better. Women arent better.

As for dealing with being a submissive. Do you submit to everyone you ever meet ever? Im assuming the answer is no, it takes a special kind of person to bring it out in you like it does with many women.  That man is special because he as a man is all the physical emotional and mental traits that go inside of you and makes bells ring. Its just a natural progression of evolution, Fem Dom or fem sub, Male Dom or male sub, we pick out partners because they set off our inside bells.


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" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 5:57:06 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Hiya Firm,

One of the things I have found in reading Thornhill and a few other things, is that there is a big difference in forced procreation, and what causes most rapes. Now some of the fundamnetal repressions in rapist may be consistant with the Thornhill theories, which seemed very interesting to me. In most of the books, papers, etc. it seemed easier to discuss when looking at it as forced procreation and what triggers that as a compulsion that cannot be controlled.


It is unlikely that any individual's conscious goal during rape is procreation.  One of the major discussion points in the book is whether or not rape is really a "reproductive mechanism" or just a byproduct of the less descriminating male sex drive.

An extract from the book:

     Chapter 3

    Why Do Men Rape?

    Selection favored different traits in females and males, especially when the traits were directly related to mating. Although some of these differences could have arisen from what Darwin called natural selection, most of them are now believed to have evolved through sexual selection.

    The males of most species--including humans--are usually more eager to mate than the females, and this enables females to choose among males who are competing with one another for access to them. But getting chosen is not the only way to gain sexual access to females. In rape, the male circumvents the female's choice.

    To appreciate the significance of female choice in human evolution, it helps to remember that adaptations evolved because they helped individuals overcome obstacles to individual reproductive success. In ancestral populations of many species, including humans, the difficulty of obtaining the parental investment of a choosy member of the other sex was a prominent obstacle to reproductive success for individuals of the sex with the lesser parental investment. That is, the difficulty of gaining sexual access to choosy females was a major obstacle to reproductive success for males. Owing to the significance of this obstacle throughout evolutionary history, there would have been strong and effective selection pressures favoring traits in males that increased their access to mates.

    One means of gaining access to a selective female is to have traits that females prefer. If possession of certain resources increased a male's chances of being chosen as a sexual partner by a female, there would have been selection for males who were motivated and able to accumulate those resources. If the ability to influence other males increased a male's chances of being chosen as a sexual partner by a female, there would have been selection for males who were motivated and able to attain influential status. If success in physical competition with other males affected the number of sexual partners a male could secure, there would have been selection for traits in males that made them more successful in such competition. Perhaps most important, there would have been selection for intense sexual desires in males that motivated them to seek sexual sensations and, hence, drove them to strive in the activities that led to those sensations. And these desires would have been designed to peak in adolescence and early adulthood, when males attempt to enter the breeding population and when competition for mates is most intense.

    Many traits of human males clearly are adaptations designed by sexual selection for success in obtaining resources and status and in winning various forms of male-male competition (Alexander 1979; Symons 1979; Ellis 1992; Grammer 1993; Buss 1994; Barber 1995; Betzig 1995, 1997; Geary 1998). There is also evidence that, in human evolutionary history, sexual selection favored males who exaggerated their status and their resource holdings in order to be chosen by females (Buss 1994; Geary 1998). The evidence of powerful sexual desires in males, peaking around adolescence and early adulthood, is even more overwhelming (Symons 1979; Alexander 1979).

...

    Rape as a Type of Sexual Selection

    Smuts and Smuts (1993) have suggested that sexual coercion is best conceptualized as a third type of sexual selection (in addition to mate choice and intrasex competition) rather than as merely a form of intrasex selection. (Sexual coercion, a broader term than rape, is defined as obtaining sexual access by intimidation, harassment, and/or physical force.) Like intrasex competition and intersex mate choice, sexual coercion affects differential access to mates. Of course sexual coercion interacts with the other two forms of sexual selection, but it is conceptually distinct from them for the following reason: A sexually coercive male may succeed in the competition for mates by coercing mating even though he loses in male-male competition for females and is not chosen as a mate by a female.

    Because all three forms of sexual coercion--physically forced mating, harassment, and intimidation 1--have significant survival and/or reproductive costs for females, a variety of female traits evolved because they reduced those costs. Indeed, many aspects of female social behavior-- including pair bonding with a male and female-female alliances across species--may be explicable as adaptations against male sexual coercion (Smuts and Smuts 1993; Mesnick 1997).

...

    Human Rape: Adaptation or By-Product?

    There are currently only two likely candidates for ultimate causes of human rape:
      It may be an adaptation that was directly favored by selection because it increased male reproductive success by way of increasing mate number. That is, there may be psychological mechanisms designed specifically to influence males to rape in ways that would have produced a net reproductive benefit in the past. "How could rape increase reproductive success?" ask Wrangham and Peterson (1996, p. 138). "There is," they continue, "a blindingly obvious and direct possibility: By raping, the rapist may fertilize the female." Remember, however, that identifying an effect that may have increased reproductive success in past environments is not the same as identifying the function of an adaptation.

      It may be only a by-product of other psychological adaptations, especially those that function to produce the sexual desires of males for multiple partners without commitment. In this case, there would not be any psychological mechanism designed specifically to influence males to rape in ways that would have produced a net reproductive benefit in the past.

    There are reasons for seriously considering each of these hypotheses. On one hand, rape is usually costly in evolutionary terms, owing primarily to potential punishment of the rapist or to his potential injury by the victim or by her social allies. When associated with any trait, such costs imply that the trait has had overriding reproductive benefits. The existence of such costs might be expected to act as a selective pressure, producing psychological mechanisms that caused males to be more likely to rape when the potential costs were low. On the other hand, many human behaviors other than rape clearly are by-products of the intense sexual desires of human males and the sexual choosiness of human females: Sexual abuse of children can be seen as an example of males attempting to gain sexual access to individuals who, because of their age, are relatively unable to control sexual access. Bestiality is a means of experiencing sexual stimulation somewhat like that experienced in intercourse with a human female with-out having to be chosen by one. Frottage (rubbing a woman's body through her clothing, usually in crowded quarters such as an elevator) and genital exhibitionism give sexual stimulation to male perpetrators by circumventing female choice. Masturbation--far more common among males than among females--is the most widespread male behavior that can be seen as a means of obtaining sexual stimulation without being chosen by a human female as a sexual partner. Although all these acts are examples of males' attempting to gain sexual gratification without meeting the criteria of an adult human female's mate choice, none of them are likely to be adaptations. They are apparently all merely by-products of the adaptations governing male sexual desires.8

    We will now examine the evidence concerning whether human rape is a product of adaptations designed specifically to increase a male's reproductive success or whether it is a by-product of adaptations designed for attaining sexual access to consenting partners.

Firm


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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 6:48:50 PM   
MissIsis


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I don't think we are equal, either as opposing sexual genders, or as individuals.  We all have our strengths & weaknesses.  We all have things we can use to contribute to society, & to the world.  How boring would it be if we were all actually equal, & each possessed the same strengths?  What a sad world we would live in. 

There are exceptions to everything.  I chose a male dominated field to work in.  I cut meat.  I was told over & over again how women be meat cutters because of the heavy lifting involved.  I needed to be stronger.  I started lifting weights, so I could accustom my body to be able to deal with heavy lifting every day.  Quietly, and with perseverance, I showed I could do what the men were doing.  I didn't really have to fight anyone for the opportunity.  I just had to prove I could do it day in & day out & show I was genuinely interested.  When the opportunity came, I was ready.  I could hold my own with just about anyone else.  I learned to cut meat before it came in little pieces in boxes that just needed to be sliced & trimmed a little.  Being a women didn't really cut away opportunities for me.  It just made things a little more challenging. 

Honestly, had things worked out, I would have been happy just to be a stay at home mom with some time to volunteer once in awhile in things that interested me.  I loved being home & taking care of a husband & my family.  I loved having dinner ready every night & doing the extra little things that help make someone elses life happy.  This is just my story, one woman's story.  I always thought working around meat would be a great job, but after one failed marriage & another failing rapidly, I knew I needed to find a way to start supporting myself & my family.   I knew the only one I would be able to depend on, would be me.   I am not angry at all.  Sure it would be nice to have someone to share my life with, but it isn't the only important thing to me.  Quite frankly, I am not in a place right now, where I feel I can afford to depend on anyone else.  I am fortunate to live in a place where I am afforded the respect to be able to make those choices. 

You mentioned women putting up with abuse.  I don't think this is necessarily just something women put up with.  I have known men who have put up with abuse from the women in their lives as well.  It is about the life being sucked out of them, & what they know being less scary than the freedom they don't know about, or have forgotten about.  There are societies that have & do put women in positions of power.   Sometimes, out of necessity, maybe even sometimes out of respect.   I came across an article recently that suggested the male power base of Wall Street may have contributed to the mess the financial world is in right now.  The theory was that if Wall Street was more balanced with women, that women's inclination to be a bit less risky may have helped avert what we are seeing today. 

I know rape was mentioned here.   Just because someone writes a book, doesn't mean they are an authority on what they are writing about, nor does it mean they are correct in what they put down on paper.  Many societies where people roamed around naked never had to deal with the rape issue at all.   Every study I have ever read about on the topic, all state that rape is never about procreation.  It is about grabbing power, & about anger.  I will leave the fantasy bdsm part out of this topic.  Bdsm is generally consensual for many of us.   I am not even sure about rape having anything to do with dominance.  Being dominant is, to me, something someone is, & comes with confidence & a responsibility. 

As far as men being more accepted by a women when they are overweight & dumpy looking, I don't believe that is always true.  Men are rejected for those reasons just as women are. 



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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 9:17:10 PM   
MissSepphora1


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I would like a few men fighting over me.  That would be pretty awesome.

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 9:23:08 PM   
MissSepphora1


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Maybe there is a reason why some men feel they can only reproduce through rape.  Those may be the men no women want, because they are CRAZY!

And, did that mention beastiality?  You have totally lost me now.

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RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/16/2009 9:38:14 PM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool
As for women being naturally submissive, most women didnt start being too "submissive" until the raise of one god religions, and even before it was simply easier to manipulate a man into doing what they wanted then doing it themselves.


Eh, that's not what I'm led to believe from some of the history I have read including the history of marriage. In fact I would find it hard to believe anyone could concluded Christianity did not revolutionize the marital relations between men and women - at least in the West.

What grand freedom did Christianity impose upon married men? You must only marry one wife, you can't divorce her, and you must remain as chaste to her as she to you. Amazing! That certainly must be on par with the harems throughout the collective Asiatic religions collectively called Hinduism or the harems held in China once upon a time. Of course those mantillas must have been as oppressive (and here we get back to the OP's inaccurate historicity of how sexually objectifying female fashion in the West came a long - because it certainly didn't start among the religious of Portugal) as Chinese foot binding women used to go through. But hey! Milan, London, Paris, Sao Paulo, and L.A. are known to be societies on the whole, twice as oppressive on women as what you can find throughout the neo-Confucious, Buddhist, Asia and Pagan Africa.

I'll tell you what, the Northern Baptist Church and Judaism in general, treats young girls and women a hell of a lot better than much of Pagan Africa where young girls are to this day given into slavery to the local village medicine man to toil as literal chattel slaves and work his bed, all to rid bad omen from what some ancestor did 100 years ago.

And dare I say the first feminist in the West were Catholic Nuns (e.g. originally administratively ran hospitals, schools, and were celibate and in need of no husband or male lover).

< Message edited by UPSG -- 2/16/2009 9:39:08 PM >

(in reply to hopelessfool)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/17/2009 2:27:33 AM   
Vendaval


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rednicky,
 
The world is not fair or easy or right, it is what it is and the only thing you have control over are your own attitudes and behaviors.
Finding ways to expressed your anger and frustration and outrage will go a long way towards helping your self-esteem.  You can find groups and clubs in your community or local colleges and universities where you can find people who share your perspectives and become active about the issues that matter to you.
 
Put your anger into action and do something positive with all that energy boiling around inside of you.
 
Peace,
 
Vendaval

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to rednicky)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Are women 'really' equal to men? Truely? - 2/18/2009 11:12:29 AM   
couldbemage


Posts: 112
Joined: 7/16/2008
Status: offline
I'd like look at how the data was gathered for the "women get paid less for the same job" information.

That sounds very suspicious. If a buisness could pay women less, why hire men?

Case in point; women at my ambulance company, on average, work significantly fewer hours. Less of them have ambulance driver's licenses, and they, in general, have shorter stays with the company.

So, if you list everyone at my company as emts, then female emts make far less than male emts. Yet they aren't actually being paid less for the same job. Drivers justifiably get paid more, and longetivety always results in higher pay.

If you adjust for these factors, our female emts actually get payed more.

I'd suspect factors such as these affect many other industries as well.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 80
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