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Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/14/2009 8:45:38 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Can anyone seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated towards the top?
http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm

Now, the rich don't earn their money in the sense that you or I go out and sell our time/labor in exchange for the weekly paycheck. No, it's the money making money. How does it do that, in such a lop-sided way? The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.

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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 5:00:25 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Can anyone seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated towards the top?
http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm

Now, the rich don't earn their money in the sense that you or I go out and sell our time/labor in exchange for the weekly paycheck. No, it's the money making money. How does it do that, in such a lop-sided way? The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.


No, the rich don't earn their money like me or you. 

Lets put  aside "inherited wealth" like the Kennedy's for example, or John Kerry's wife, that many in this country have because of great grandpa, or grandma or Dad...and lets speak of those who became rich like a Warren Buffet, a Bill Gates, a Michael Dell, a Jerry Seinfeld, a Bill Clinton. In every industry there are those who dominate the industry at the top..and those that go to work and put in hours for a paycheck.

People became rich...because they were smarter than most of us...more inventive than most of us, more aggressive than most of us..worked smarter than most of us...more politically astute than most of us, became professional at their "jobs" by working those long hours...took risks that most of us would not dream of taking...failed but learned from failure instead of assuming the embryo position or waiting for a government bailout. Some like those greedy but pretty damn smart Wall Street guys, were in the right place at the right time.  

I believe a person doesen't become rich when he doesn't have the NEED to become rich..the passion for what he is doing.. when his/her only horizon goes no further than the next paycheck, run out and  buy a sixpack and Parrrrtyyyyy!!  And, by the way, a lot of Americans are damned happy doing just that...make enough to feed the kids...keep the wife happy...fix the leaky roof..and live for Sunday football games. 

It's not money that truly makes your rich....it's the life you make for yourself.  On the other hand I would rather be rich than poor....  :)

< Message edited by corysub -- 2/15/2009 5:01:30 AM >

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 5:15:58 AM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Can anyone seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated towards the top?
http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm

Now, the rich don't earn their money in the sense that you or I go out and sell our time/labor in exchange for the weekly paycheck. No, it's the money making money. How does it do that, in such a lop-sided way? The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.


To me there is a fundamental battle going on as to whether the present oligarchy form of government currently in existence in the U.S. will be displaced by a restoration of democracy.  It also explains the republican/conservative fear of the word "socialism."

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 7:04:08 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Can anyone seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated towards the top?
http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm


It will always be this way. If it were all evened out, within a generation you would again see it start sliding to a small percentage holding the wealth.

quote:


Now, the rich don't earn their money in the sense that you or I go out and sell our time/labor in exchange for the weekly paycheck. No, it's the money making money. How does it do that, in such a lop-sided way? The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.


Define rich for me. Beyond what annual income? Could you give some examples of the tax laws and regulations you are refering to. So if all the "rich" people just picked up and moved, would the country be better for it? If so, how? If not, why not?

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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 7:08:52 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Hippie, the dems have done just as much to steal from the poor as the pubs.  You know that as well as I do.  Both major parties are almost totally corrupt.  Niether cares about the poor or the endangered species known as the middle class.
Both parties have putin corrupt tax laws and have raped the American worker with trade deals that drive more of this country into poverty every day.

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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 7:59:33 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
The reason we disparage socialists is because of attitudes like that. Anyone who gets ahead must be evil (socialists as fundies). Their idea is to keep everyone down so we're all equally miserable, and anyone who dares to try harder must be punished.

Getting rich is strictly forbidden.


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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 8:05:44 AM   
mrbob726


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Illinois
Status: offline 		I never earned a dime working for a company or business owned by a poor man. Think about it - - 

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RE: America: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 8:06:27 AM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		when Americans voted bush in the second  term it left me cold...I exposed higher prices at the pump and got them. I expected to work longer hours for less pay overall and got that too.  I expected people making over 75k a year to get tax brakes that I will never be able to use..and I got that too.  And I expected more American really  high paying jobs to leave this country..and I got that too.  Do I expect all that to change..maybe..with time and real effort..but so far all I can really do it batten down my hatches cause it seems to be getting worser and worser...Dam..what will it be like for my 20 and my 24 year olds in a few years...

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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 8:18:46 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf


Define rich for me.


Well, the top 1% sounds like a good place to start.

quote:

Beyond what annual income? Could you give some examples of the tax laws and regulations you are refering to.



Obama to sign $787 billion stimulus bill Tuesday AP - Sat Feb 14, 11:42 PM ET

In a bow to political reality, lawmakers included $70 billion to shelter upper middle-class and wealthier taxpayers from an income tax increase that would otherwise hit them, a provision that the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said would do relatively little to create jobs.


quote:


So if all the "rich" people just picked up and moved, would the country be better for it? If so, how? If not, why not?


No one is suggesting that.

What much of the research suggests, if you read the link, or saw the data in other sources, is that when these inequities grow to this level it is bad for everyone.

A consumer economy doesn't work very well when disposable income becomes concentrated in fewer and fewer hands.

I don't think that the concentration of wealth occurring just prior to the Great Depression and the concentration that just occurred prior to this economic crisis is just coincidence.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 8:27:54 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.


Hippie, that is absolutely not true.  Republicans have advocated a flat tax or a national sales tax for decades.  EVERYBODY pays either a fixed percentage of their income or pays when they make a purchase.  No loopholes, no bullshit....everybody except the poorest of the poor pays their share.  The Democrats are the ones that hang on to our current bloated taxation system. 

I personally would like to see a flat tax of 15% across the board.  No loopholes...everyone except the poorest of the poor has to pay.  Why are those on the Left so opposed to such a fair system?  Because they really don't give a shit about fairness.  They want class warfare and they want to continue perpetuating the deadly sin of envy. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 2/15/2009 8:28:44 AM >

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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 9:46:12 AM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		I like the concept of the Fair Tax, slaveboy.  It actually has serious research to back it up, which makes it unique among all the plans for funding the

You pay the tax only if you buy something NEW.  Buy used?  Tax was already paid on it.

It doesn't increase the price, as some would say...it keeps it about the same because: 
1) you keep your WHOLE salary to start!  (less state, if applicable)
2) no more embedded taxes in the items we purchase (the item's price reflects it's real price...and then when you pay the fair tax on it you pay pretty much what you pay now for it BEFORE tax.  -- does not reflect state sales taxes...)
3) there is a "tax prebate" for everyone based on a minimal income and the fair tax you will pay on essentials is in your hand.
4) businesses would move BACK to the US, since it would become a good place to be for a corporation.
4a) businesses don't pay the tax anyway...it is passed along as a cost of doing business to the customer.  "Business paying income taxes" is B.S. as a result anyway...just a way to hide tax dollars in the final cost of an item.
5) many more reasons...check www.fairtax.org

Me?  I'd like to be rich.  I don't envy them...I admire the way they figured out a way to get there.   Inherited wealth, well...some of us are born in the US and others are born in Ethiopia.  Last time I checked, no one was promised that life would be easy or fair.

And you know, there are plenty of "rich" people who do things for others.   For example, just recently   Leonard Abess Jr gave $60,000,000 out of his own pocket to people who worked in his bank, even those that retired    ( http://www.miamiherald.com/460/story/904842.html )   I can't see anyone who is poor being able to do that...

Most of the rich people I know, and yeah, I have had the chance to hob nob with a bunch at university fundraisers or in other roles, are very generous.  They are particular, but generous.  They want to know what they worked for is being well utilized by the groups/institutions to whom they donate.

So yeah...let's hear it for rich people!   They CAN (and do) change the world. 


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(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 10:10:39 AM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Can anyone seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated towards the top?
http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm

Now, the rich don't earn their money in the sense that you or I go out and sell our time/labor in exchange for the weekly paycheck. No, it's the money making money. How does it do that, in such a lop-sided way? The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.


No, the rich don't earn their money like me or you. 

Lets put  aside "inherited wealth" like the Kennedy's for example, or John Kerry's wife, that many in this country have because of great grandpa, or grandma or Dad...and lets speak of those who became rich like a Warren Buffet, a Bill Gates, a Michael Dell, a Jerry Seinfeld, a Bill Clinton. In every industry there are those who dominate the industry at the top..and those that go to work and put in hours for a paycheck.

People became rich...because they were smarter than most of us...more inventive than most of us, more aggressive than most of us..worked smarter than most of us...more politically astute than most of us, became professional at their "jobs" by working those long hours...took risks that most of us would not dream of taking...failed but learned from failure instead of assuming the embryo position or waiting for a government bailout. Some like those greedy but pretty damn smart Wall Street guys, were in the right place at the right time.  

I believe a person doesen't become rich when he doesn't have the NEED to become rich..the passion for what he is doing.. when his/her only horizon goes no further than the next paycheck, run out and  buy a sixpack and Parrrrtyyyyy!!  And, by the way, a lot of Americans are damned happy doing just that...make enough to feed the kids...keep the wife happy...fix the leaky roof..and live for Sunday football games. 

It's not money that truly makes your rich....it's the life you make for yourself.  On the other hand I would rather be rich than poor....  :)


Cory,

I think it would behoove you to read Kevin Phillips "Wealth and Democracy." He goes into great detail in re inherited wealth.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to corysub)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 10:21:28 AM   
MichiganHeadmast


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/13/2006
Status: offline 		Hippie, I was gonna dispute your premise, but the ingenious addition of a "K" to America convinced me your logic must be impeccable.

Only thing I'll add is that maybe we should emulate Zimbabwe (sorry, no place to put a K in there) and everyone can be trillionaires.

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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 10:38:05 AM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		From wikipedia:



_____________________________

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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 11:12:03 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

Hippie, I was gonna dispute your premise, but the ingenious addition of a "K" to America convinced me your logic must be impeccable.

Only thing I'll add is that maybe we should emulate Zimbabwe (sorry, no place to put a K in there) and everyone can be trillionaires.



Wow and here I thought he just misspelled it.

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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 11:36:33 AM   
Crush


Posts: 1031
Status: offline 		sure,

Zimbabkwe .. .




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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 1:05:34 PM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Can anyone seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated towards the top?
http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm

Now, the rich don't earn their money in the sense that you or I go out and sell our time/labor in exchange for the weekly paycheck. No, it's the money making money. How does it do that, in such a lop-sided way? The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.


No, the rich don't earn their money like me or you. 

Lets put  aside "inherited wealth" like the Kennedy's for example, or John Kerry's wife, that many in this country have because of great grandpa, or grandma or Dad...and lets speak of those who became rich like a Warren Buffet, a Bill Gates, a Michael Dell, a Jerry Seinfeld, a Bill Clinton. In every industry there are those who dominate the industry at the top..and those that go to work and put in hours for a paycheck.

People became rich...because they were smarter than most of us...more inventive than most of us, more aggressive than most of us..worked smarter than most of us...more politically astute than most of us, became professional at their "jobs" by working those long hours...took risks that most of us would not dream of taking...failed but learned from failure instead of assuming the embryo position or waiting for a government bailout. Some like those greedy but pretty damn smart Wall Street guys, were in the right place at the right time.  

I believe a person doesen't become rich when he doesn't have the NEED to become rich..the passion for what he is doing.. when his/her only horizon goes no further than the next paycheck, run out and  buy a sixpack and Parrrrtyyyyy!!  And, by the way, a lot of Americans are damned happy doing just that...make enough to feed the kids...keep the wife happy...fix the leaky roof..and live for Sunday football games. 

It's not money that truly makes your rich....it's the life you make for yourself.  On the other hand I would rather be rich than poor....  :)


Cory,

I think it would behoove you to read Kevin Phillips "Wealth and Democracy." He goes into great detail in re inherited wealth.

Uncle Nasty



I understand...and that's what I tried to point out in the second sentense of my post.I guess I should have expanded on the power of inherited wealth instead of letting it slide by..but my focus was to answer the OP in that you can come from humble beginnings in a democratic capitalistic system as we have had until today in the United States and become a multi-billionaire.  Not that people in Europe, Russia, Communist China have not also achieved that level of wealth..but in our country there seems to be more opportunity.  You can make it in this country..you can even become President notwithstanding the color of your skin.  Speaks loads for the free spirit of the American people in a free capitalistic society. 
The question of the day is what is the democrat Party and our new Presidents vision of where the country should be in 5-10 years...What is the meaning of "Change"...something no one really knows,  although some early signs are evidenced by the "Lack of Stimulus Plan" just approved by Congress.

And I will take your suggestion and read the book.  Thank you...

(in reply to UncleNasty)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 1:09:14 PM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		It has been several years since I read it but as I recall he used a lot of incontrovertible factual data. I also recall not agreeing with, or liking, all of his conclusions.

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to corysub)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 1:23:07 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Unfortunately the people in Washington don't listen to "The People" anymore.
They listen to the scumbag "Lobbyists" who give them rich people's money!
And, those same "lobbyists" take money from foreign countries in order to steal *our money* in what they call, "foreign aid."
That's what needs to be stopped.

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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/15/2009 2:33:46 PM   
awmslave


Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.


Partisanship here is inappropriate. USA is plutocracy, there are no parties in reality. Look at the CEO pay multiple vs average worker pay: the huge increase falls into president Clinton years. I have always said Clinton is so far the best example of coropratism.  The stimulus and TARP (arguably) is nothing else than protecting the rich at the expense of future generations.

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