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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 12:01:07 PM   
hardbodysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Can anyone seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated towards the top?


(Uhhhhmmm...wealth, by definition...is concentrated at the top!).



Incorrect. The word "wealth" does not imply unequal distribution. Wealth is economic resources, and the word itself has nothing to do with where or how it is concentrated. The prevailing economic and political systems determine its distribution.

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 12:01:31 PM   
awmslave


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quote:

Only if we allow the system to stay rigged that way.

The system regulates itself: an excessive concentration of  wealth on the top inevitably leads to recession. This is where we are.

(in reply to hardbodysub)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 12:03:13 PM   
CreativeDominant


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What a crock.  Sam Walton certainly earned his money the same way you and I do...he went out and started with a little and stuck to it and wound up with a lot.  A hell of a lot.  As did the founders of J. C. Penney and Montgomery Ward and Ford, etc..

I am soooooooooo tired of the mantra of "the rich get this break and the rich get that break and the poor get nothing".  What a load...the poor got houses that they could not qualify to buy because the government put pressure on institutions that had the banks facing being charged with racism if they did not give loans to these people, if they did not qualify people who could not come up with the down payment.  President Obama's "fave" organization stands to get almost 4 billion in the "Porkulis" package.  In my own state, almost a 3rd will go to helping the homeless...not by giving them jobs or building a new company where they might get jobs...just helping them.

And what would you have the "government" do...take away money that rightfully belongs to someone else---whether inherited or earned---because the people have decided that an amount beyond a certain number is too rich?  Perilously close to the old Marxist mantra:  To each according to their needs, from each according to their means.  Does...not...work.  No man will ever go out and work for others in the same way he will work for himself and his own.  Nor should he have to.

You want fairness...I agree, get rid of some of the loopholes that are used by the wealthy BUT at the same time, quit shoring up those ...and you know they exist...who have been too lazy, too "sick", too something to get up off their ass and go to work.  Institute a "flat tax"...a fair tax...across the board.  If they take 15 percent of my income, then take 15% of the CEO's income and 15% of the factory worker's income.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 12:14:25 PM   
hardbodysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Can anyone seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated towards the top?
http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm

Now, the rich don't earn their money in the sense that you or I go out and sell our time/labor in exchange for the weekly paycheck. No, it's the money making money. How does it do that, in such a lop-sided way? The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.


Of course people can seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated toward the top, just as they can argue that "intelligent design" is science. They just can't argue that way logically and legitimately. Doesn't make them less serious, it just makes them wrong.

People who argue that those who have the most money worked the hardest are totally full of BS. My career has given me the opportunity to see, up close and personal, both ends and the middle of the income and wealth scales, and it's clear that people at the top generally do NOT work any harder than those at the bottom. Usually, it's the other way around.

Communism clearly isn't the answer. People need to be rewarded for hard work, for innovating, inventing, and taking risks. They also need to be able to pass along wealth to their dependents. But there's no reason for those dependents to receive so much intergenerational wealth that they don't have to lift a finger their whole life, for so much wealth to be so concentrated that the beneficiaries also control the political system by virtue of their inherited wealth. That's what perpetuates the cycle.

What's needed is a balance of reward for work, and fairness in distribution of wealth. People will always disagree about what the proper balance is, but neither extreme is good, and right now we're at one extreme.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 12:29:11 PM   
CreativeDominant


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What's needed is a balance of reward for work, and fairness in distribution of wealth. People will always disagree about what the proper balance is, but neither extreme is good, and right now we're at one extreme.

Are you kidding me?????  And just who is going to decide what is fair?  The man who didn't earn the money but best knows how it should be spent/distributed?  What gave him that knowledge?  And what gives him that right to take money from others that he himself did NOTHING---and I mean work or even have the luck to be genetically related---to get?

You don't reward people for hard work by telling them..."congratulations!!!  You've worked very hard to earn your money and as long as it is in your hands, you can keep it...but the minute it goes to anyone in your family who DIDN'T work to get it, then it now belongs to the people...even though we told you that it was yours and even though you earned it".  Talk about "progress"...yes, progress on the road to socialism.

(in reply to hardbodysub)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 12:32:48 PM   
awmslave


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quote:

And what would you have the "government" do...take away money that rightfully belongs to someone else---whether inherited or earned---because the people have decided that an amount beyond a certain number is too rich?


This is very good point. How to solve the problem? Whatever would be the optimal solution for the problem is not going to be executed because the government is part of the rich, it searches for solutions how to hide it and somehow solve the problem without a radical change. Basically this is what the stimulus package is. Obviously the package does not solve anything but just wins some time. Not surprisingly one of the largest funding increases in the package are for police and prisons. Predicting the trend: we are moving towards totalitarianism which is one of the solutions. It is predicted that the crisis will lead to net loss in small and mid-size businesses and increase in corporate power. Better in my view would be to introduce structural changes in the system that would lead to a wider wealth distribution. There are many ways to do it. Too bad the most likely it is not going to happen as US is in essence plutocracy.


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 12:40:43 PM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Greetings Lookie,

You have a very well stated post.

I see this as being pretty much in line with natural selection and it's rather contrary with the concept that became an over used campaign phrase of McCain, "The Distribution of the Wealth".

In General:

The Greatest athletes become All-Stars, Pro Bowlers or Gold Medlists.

The Best Military leaders become Generals, or more appropriately Sergeants Major .

The Best Businessmen become wealthy. As it should be.

I agree that some have wealth handed to them, but it is foolish to fret over this. If the silver spoon club are incapable of sustaining their wealth it will soon belong to the man that can rightfully take it. A fool and his money will soon be parted.

Men (again gender neutral) that are capable, will rise to the top. Those sitting around whining about their terrible life or the unfair conditions that are holding them back (in chains/ slave reference/ it's a mental thing) will serve those with the ability to own. Or in other terms; those with the skill, determination and or the ruthlessness to take and keep what they want will be the masters. If you don't like your present position, do something about it on your own.

Interestingly enough in the good ole' US of A up to this point, the master can be anyone that is on his game. I hope it remains as such, if not I suspect we will too become appathetic as a nation and our wealth will vanish.


I only agree with you to the point I agree with any implicit inference that he behooves people in general to adapt to the "game."

That said, I think your view is a little to simplistic. In fact the military functions more like a socialist environment than a capitalist environment. The Marine Corps will use 6 Marines to move an object of the same weight the civilian world will employ 1 man to do. If the U.S. military began resembling the civilian world's corporate drive for profit it would resemble more the culture of Conquistador adventurers than the socialist culture of ethics (which encourage leave no man behind I might add) it has today.

Business and athleticism, while they may share some things in common, are not necessarily the same kind of animal. Many athletes like Shane Mosley and Oscar Dela Hoya where groomed literally from youth - receiving intense training in early formative years - to become great champions today. Few men can enter a sport late in life (usually that means after your mid 20's) like Bernard Hopkins and become a millionaire champ. Extremely rare.

The world of academics and professional life tends to also require sociologically nurturing environments in most peoples formative years to propel them to success. I don't believe it coincidental that U.S. President's come from certain alma maters. Harvard is a king creator or President creator if you prefer, but not necessarily UW-Milwaukee. In fact I feel quite confident in suggesting that there will never be a UW-Milwaukee graduate elected to the U.S. Presidency no matter if he or she is a combination of scholarly and saintly mixed with enough aduacity and prudence to lead executively.

Men and women can arise to upper-middle-class life or even to the higher socio-economic socities in the U.S. for a number of reasons. As far as world freedoms go it remains a fairly free society, it is driven by capitalism, and civil rights have improved over the decades for gays, women, and racial minorities. In this sense capitalism is a good because it allows for uppward mobility - which also is requires an indivdual to expend energy (calories) to improve their quality of life.

On the down side capitalism also assumes, or may even require, losers in the "game." And the game is learned well if you have good tutors (kind of humbles the self-made man theory). Many Americans - and I mean many - simply do not have the quality of tutors or mentorship to develop them into knowledgable, aware, compotent "players" in the game. And after a certain age, even in the United States, it becomes almost impossible to recover lost time and create an "American dream" for yourself.

Most Americans that are born in the middle-class remain in the middle-class for most if not all their life. Same holds true for rich and poor respectively for their own socio-economic category. Middle-class Americans (not upper-middle-class) have what we might call "middle-class values" and they train or indoctrinate their children with the mindset of obedience to both the system and authority. A sociology teacher of mine in a former study of some kind she was hired to do, found that upper-class people teach their children to be creative and to that extent, never mind obdeience to the system.

(in reply to xBullx)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 12:53:35 PM   
hardbodysub


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The point of my post was conveniently missed. You're reacting as though I said all income and wealth should be distributed equally, which I didn't even come close to saying. And I didn't say that nobody should inherit anything, which you also imply. You've ignored everything I said about reward for work and being able to pass along wealth to dependents. So you're arguing against things I never said.

"Just who is going to decide what's fair" is exactly what I was talking about. Right now, the rich decide that, and they've decided to keep it all to themselves. That's the way our system is set up. You seem to contend that, since they have the wealth, they must be smarter and more able to make the right decisions. That's wrong on at least two counts: (1) Most of the wealthy didn't earn it themselves; and (2) even if they did earn it themselves, that doesn't make them any smarter, any better than anyone else at deciding what is best for the whole country. Their short-sighted self-interest can very well lead to horrible situations just like we have now. I didn't say the poor should decide it either. As I said, balance is needed. Time for reasoned negotiation, not the absurd extremes.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 1:00:16 PM   
UPSG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

What a crock.  Sam Walton certainly earned his money the same way you and I do...he went out and started with a little and stuck to it and wound up with a lot.  A hell of a lot.  As did the founders of J. C. Penney and Montgomery Ward and Ford, etc..


The majority of the very rich in the U.S. build their wealth by other means than selling their labor or even entrepreneurship per se. They earn it through things such as inheritance and dividends. And I'm not specifically thinking of children born into wealthy homes, but rather I'm thinking more of the upper-crust of White women in the U.S. who inherit the estates of their husbands after they die of heart attack - and consequently these women hold half the wealth in the United States.

Tobacco, Sugar, Cocaine, pimping, employment agencies, stealing land West of the Mississippi and selling it for cheap, gambling at a card table, prostituting in the back of a bar, being employed by La Cosa Nostra to hijack trucks are all ways of acquiring income or wealth. We moralize employment agencies (temp services often) as good and honorable means to accruing wealth (the owners that is) but we moralize pimping female and male prostitutes as a bad and dishonorable thing. You own a bar you are ok even though alcohol destroys many families and kidneys but you sell a quarter ounce of marijuana and your a jackass. 

Certain people are around mentors that can teach them to pimp, others play cards at a Vegas table, brutality accompained tobacco (plantations/slaves/whips/ships of death) as it does cocaine. La Cosa Nostar can teach young pupils how to extort and invade territories and fight wars. If you are Ivy league, conservative, and brought up in a family or secondary environment associated with the rotating pyramid of upper-military officership, federal politicians, and corporate leaders, then you learn the game of collecting taxes (legalized extortion) and invading territories to fight war (e.g. Iraq and oil fields).

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 2:12:00 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Can anyone seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated towards the top?
http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm


It will always be this way. If it were all evened out, within a generation you would again see it start sliding to a small percentage holding the wealth.
quote:


Now, the rich don't earn their money in the sense that you or I go out and sell our time/labor in exchange for the weekly paycheck. No, it's the money making money. How does it do that, in such a lop-sided way? The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.

Define rich for me. Beyond what annual income? Could you give some examples of the tax laws and regulations you are referring to. So if all the "rich" people just picked up and moved, would the country be better for it? If so, how? If not, why not?

1) I buy and sell things that already exist. I hire labor, pay them well and they pay 35% federal income tax on upper salaries. I sell at a higher value that your labor added and after 1 year long term [sic] capital gains and pay 15% federal tax on those gains. You could pay $35,000 on your $100,000 income from your getting up in the morning and labor and I pay $15,000 on $100,000 capital gains I made on the golf course (where all there is...is lunch and others like you, have jobs) ...whatever that is.

2) I develop a piece of commercial property and lease it up at a cost of X. Once leased up just enough (or even fully) obtain a non-recourse mortgage at X + ? millions maybe (lender can only take the building) based on a certain X times net cash flow all of which I turn over to the lender. The mortgage amount over and above my total cost (basis) I put in my pocket TAX free and walk away from the building. You see...I did not sell so I don't even pay a capital gains tax. My 'earnings' are not earnings at all but the proceeds of a loan.

Want more ?

The rich, the corporations and their lobbyists...actually write the laws of this country through what the OP is trying to illustrate...a PLUTOCRACY. After all...all that money is now 'free speech' people. [sic]


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/16/2009 2:28:59 PM >

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 2:21:13 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

What a crock.  Sam Walton certainly earned his money the same way you and I do...he went out and started with a little and stuck to it and wound up with a lot.  A hell of a lot.  As did the founders of J. C. Penney and Montgomery Ward and Ford, etc..

I am soooooooooo tired of the mantra of "the rich get this break and the rich get that break and the poor get nothing".  What a load...the poor got houses that they could not qualify to buy because the government put pressure on institutions that had the banks facing being charged with racism if they did not give loans to these people, if they did not qualify people who could not come up with the down payment.  President Obama's "fave" organization stands to get almost 4 billion in the "Porkulis" package.  In my own state, almost a 3rd will go to helping the homeless...not by giving them jobs or building a new company where they might get jobs...just helping them.

And what would you have the "government" do...take away money that rightfully belongs to someone else---whether inherited or earned---because the people have decided that an amount beyond a certain number is too rich?  Perilously close to the old Marxist mantra:  To each according to their needs, from each according to their means.  Does...not...work.  No man will ever go out and work for others in the same way he will work for himself and his own.  Nor should he have to.

You want fairness...I agree, get rid of some of the loopholes that are used by the wealthy BUT at the same time, quit shoring up those ...and you know they exist...who have been too lazy, too "sick", too something to get up off their ass and go to work.  Institute a "flat tax"...a fair tax...across the board.  If they take 15 percent of my income, then take 15% of the CEO's income and 15% of the factory worker's income.

Sam Walton 'earned' his money by purchasing 80-90% of what he sold at Wal-Mart from the Chinese 'gulag.' How many college degrees and real effort did it take to do that ? For all world-wide comparison he used essentially...slave labor. The remaining capitalists were just later to the game.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 2:23:19 PM   
Sanity


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(Chinese) Socialism equals slave labor... no shit, huh.

You hit the nail square on the head with that one.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Sam Walton 'earned' his money by purchasing 80-90% of what he sold at Wal-Mart from the Chinese 'gulag.' How many college degrees and real effort did it take to do that ? For all world-wide comparison he used essentially...slave labor. The remaining capitalists were just later to the game.



Edited for clarity





< Message edited by Sanity -- 2/16/2009 2:29:00 PM >


_____________________________

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(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 2:34:09 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


(Chinese) Socialism equals slave labor... no shit, huh.

You hit the nail square on the head with that one.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Sam Walton 'earned' his money by purchasing 80-90% of what he sold at Wal-Mart from the Chinese 'gulag.' How many college degrees and real effort did it take to do that ? For all world-wide comparison he used essentially...slave labor. The remaining capitalists were just later to the game.


Edited for clarity

You just don't get it do you ? How stupid can you possibly be ? The Chinese are CAPITALISTS FASCISTS and are communists in name only to maintain their fascism and the new role model of economcs. The west's capitalist would move 100 MILLION 200 million, 300 million more American and western jobs or more to China if they could and will try because they can't have their slaves back right here.

'Communist' China is very profitable for ME as I invest in Chinese labor...NOT those costly, lazy Americans that actually want to make something called what, what...a living wage. Who do they (you) think you are ?

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/16/2009 2:39:15 PM >

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 3:18:39 PM   
Sanity


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The Chinese peasants were initially promised Socialism, yet (predictably) they were delivered into total slavery.

And aren't socialist leaders are always "capitalist fascists"?

Example - you don't hear of Barack Obama living in a humble manner, and you never will. He'll lecture us about all the sacrifices we need to make in the name of "global warming" and then he climbs on his personal private Boeing jetliner (Air Force One now) and fly off to Hawaii for a few days in the sun, then he'll fly back to Washington and crank the thermostats in the White House up to 85 degrees so he can dress down and pretend he's still at the beach.

But us? Why, according to Obama, we can't even continue to eat all we want...

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h-wpxs1Re-8vx2Zk5xnYygW1W67w


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
You just don't get it do you ? How stupid can you possibly be ? The Chinese are CAPITALISTS FASCISTS and are communists in name only to maintain their fascism and the new role model of economcs. The west's capitalist would move 100 MILLION 200 million, 300 million more American and western jobs or more to China if they could and will try because they can't have their slaves back right here.

'Communist' China is very profitable for ME as I invest in Chinese labor...NOT those costly, lazy Americans that actually want to make something called what, what...a living wage. Who do they (you) think you are ?


_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 4:10:56 PM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Can anyone seriously argue that wealth is not being concentrated towards the top?
http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm


It will always be this way. If it were all evened out, within a generation you would again see it start sliding to a small percentage holding the wealth.
quote:


Now, the rich don't earn their money in the sense that you or I go out and sell our time/labor in exchange for the weekly paycheck. No, it's the money making money. How does it do that, in such a lop-sided way? The Republicans have done everything in their power to create a society wherein the rich have all the tax laws and investment regulations written in their favor. The hell with everyone else.

Define rich for me. Beyond what annual income? Could you give some examples of the tax laws and regulations you are referring to. So if all the "rich" people just picked up and moved, would the country be better for it? If so, how? If not, why not?

1) I buy and sell things that already exist. I hire labor, pay them well and they pay 35% federal income tax on upper salaries. I sell at a higher value that your labor added and after 1 year long term [sic] capital gains and pay 15% federal tax on those gains. You could pay $35,000 on your $100,000 income from your getting up in the morning and labor and I pay $15,000 on $100,000 capital gains I made on the golf course (where all there is...is lunch and others like you, have jobs) ...whatever that is.

2) I develop a piece of commercial property and lease it up at a cost of X. Once leased up just enough (or even fully) obtain a non-recourse mortgage at X + ? millions maybe (lender can only take the building) based on a certain X times net cash flow all of which I turn over to the lender. The mortgage amount over and above my total cost (basis) I put in my pocket TAX free and walk away from the building. You see...I did not sell so I don't even pay a capital gains tax. My 'earnings' are not earnings at all but the proceeds of a loan.

Want more ?

The rich, the corporations and their lobbyists...actually write the laws of this country through what the OP is trying to illustrate...a PLUTOCRACY. After all...all that money is now 'free speech' people. [sic]



Doing trade as a corporation is fully taxed at the corporate rate. You are creating a situation that I have never seen in the "real world" and would love to know of any companies that are
paying a 15% "capital gain tax' on their earnings.  Capital gain taxes apply to assets held more than one year...I would appreciate your list of companies that operate this way other than Investment Funds that don't by a product.  If you did have a company that bought an item that already exited, held it in a warehouse, and sold it for a profit...why would you pay someone $100,000 a year as a "secrurity guard'...What else is he/she doing....

In your second example, you didn't create earnings,  you created a "liability" since you have a contract with the lender to repay the "loan" you took against the property.  You have borrowed money in the bank..not earnings...and if you spend it..and those "tenants move out" you still owe the mortgage.  A lot of people in Florida and Cali were playing that "game"...and now they are bankrupt. 

I'm not going to discuss your final point...of course the rich write the tax laws...and the spending bills, and the regulations affecting development around land they own...and bridges to their properties, and kill projects to put "windmills" offshore their beachfront compounds..and on and on.  Who do you think control the political world that writes these laws...the poor??? 

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 4:29:46 PM   
hardbodysub


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You clearly have no idea of what has been going on in China for many years now. Economically, they have completely embraced unbridled capitalism, and the resulting unrestrained greed is what has resulted in the current slave labor issues and unsafe products.

The Communist Party has nothing to do with the economic concept of communism. They are purely a fascist political power that has retained their historic name.

(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 4:44:26 PM   
Sanity


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Oh, I know exactly what's been going on in China.

The Chinese Politburo discovered after many years of literally starving millions and millions of Chinese peasants to death and after other staggering atrocities committed in the name of the people that, no matter what they did, Socialism can never work. And so in desperation they have recently began to introduce limited capitalism, and their economy took off like a rocket ship.

And today the experiment continues.


quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

You clearly have no idea of what has been going on in China for many years now. Economically, they have completely embraced unbridled capitalism, and the resulting unrestrained greed is what has resulted in the current slave labor issues and unsafe products.

The Communist Party has nothing to do with the economic concept of communism. They are purely a fascist political power that has retained their historic name.


_____________________________

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RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 5:14:02 PM   
Termyn8or


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Accruing wealth takes numbers. You don't go to Goodman's to eat. They are a snadwich shop that has some claim to fame in the area for their corned beef. A couple of times I was able to get a seat, where I saw so much money coming in it was ridiculous. People's orders filled within a scant few minutes and each one of them dropping well over twenty bucks. This goes on for eight hours/six days. Sometimes the line runs all the way outside and in the front of other establishments in the little strip mall where they are located. When you go to Goodman's you just find out who all wants sandwiches and pile up their money, take it on in. It's actually only the second best corned beef place in the city, but I made a joke about when the owner wants to buy a house or something, walks into the bank, they asks what he does for a living and he says "I own a little sandwich shop" and when they find out it is Goodman's they say "Oh have a seat Mr Goodman, take your shoes off if you like, have a cigar".

In other words, it is easier to get a dollar each from a million people than to get a million from one. That is a very important part of the formula, that is if you intend to earn it.

So does Mr Goodman deserve more money than me, probably. In the beginning no doubt he dealt with everything, after while hires others to make the sandwiches, run the shop and count his money. If he does this just right, if he has the ability and desire to start another sandwich shop on the other side of town, what's to stop him ? A bunch of work in the beginning, but after a while he can walk away having hired the cooks and other personell as well as the bean counters. He's back where he started, probably on his boat somewhere, but having nearly double the customers has about double the income, and has walked away. There is nothing stopping him from doing it again and again.

On the other hand, George W Bush ran businesses into the ground. Two are of note, but there were about four others with such a short life span that they don't even get mentioned. Does he deserve the money ?

Do I deserve twice the money anyone else makes where I work ? It's all in what you do. Give me a penny for every gallon of gasoline sold in this country.  Some chemical companies actually do get that, like for an additive or something, and thrive on it.

So they get a buck a million times a day, that's how it's really been done, and is done. Getting a million bucks in a million days from now does not work.

That is the concept.

T

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 5:17:06 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
Without re-quoting both Sanity and cory but with all due respect, what we see is actually how things operate.

Something bought (anything, real estate, art, co. stock etc. bonds, securities) at one price and I sell later either creates short term capital gains or loses. Here we assume gains for our debate. Any corporation, LLC, sole proprietorship Sub chapter (s) corp...any business can do this and it goes down on schedule C income or some appropriate tax form.

After only a year my profit or gains are for tax purposes...long term gains which is ridiculous. I owe taxes of 15% of the net which is my sale price minus my basis (basis is all purchase costs and capital improvement costs) If I work for a salary that goes on 1040 either from w-2 or 1099 and my chart can take me up to about 35% of my adjusted gross income. That is immoral prima facie.

On China, they are NOT communists except in name only so the party leaders control the military (may not last forever) and maintain the police state while Chinese peasants may buy shoes making a few $/hr many millions come from the countryside (their land being stolen and developed) to earn $3/DAY to make 20 pairs of $200 basketball shoes, blue jeans, computers etc.

The so-called communist party has created between 100 and 200 Chinese 'communist' Billionaires some of which party and lose millions in Vegas. They steal the profits from the labor of their peasants.

For many capitalists, China is the modern role model of mixing 1 billion peasants into an industrial economy as to essentially steal their labor just as was stolen from slave cotton-pickers back in the day.

Note: There are 70-80,000 yes, THOUSAND riots every year in China put down by the brutality of the police to maintain this fascist slavery.

The western capitalist is taking great advantage of this and Sam Walton made himself a multi-billionaire building a chain of stores fighting unions, paying Americans as little as possible while purchasing his toys and sundry from the fruits of this Chinese slave labor.

China, call them or their govt. what you want but it is the prototypical modern slave state and have formed the model of capitalist fascism but ONLY to the benifit of party leaders and their most trusted and necessary staff, police, law, admin. etc. and that pay drops real fast or otherwise how could they create all of those great Chinese billionaires and captains of industry. Under all of that is the fascist corruption of management actually making a practice of stealing from their employees and without penalty.


< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 2/16/2009 5:22:44 PM >

(in reply to corysub)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Amerika: of the Rich, by the Rich, for the Rich - 2/16/2009 5:33:28 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx


Nothing complicated about what I said, I suspect if someone needed this explained the explanation would exceed reader comprehension in any event. 




Yes, of course.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people on here are so extraordinarily impressed with their own intelligence.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 60
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