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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 3:06:54 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Sorry, I thought we needed an interjecton of humor at the moment............you took my name in vain..... That might be seen is racim against us bovine types you know.


My apologies, Bull.  I'll try to use another favorite term of mine, horse manure.  Of course, now I'm going to offend the equines here. 

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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 3:10:41 PM   
lronitulstahp


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Nowhere did i say that MOST Latinos are are descendants of Blacks....but i will say that MOST are descendants of some Indiginous group people.  The conquistadores did a fair amount of intermingling and  breeding, but not enough to entirely eradicate the  mostly Native origins of most Latino people. 

A Spanish last name doesn't necessarily mean that a person is a Spaniard.  The names were forced in amny cases, and given as a means of conquering.  Similiar to the Johnson's and Brown's given to the descendants of African slaves.  Hell, my maiden name is Dutch, but damned if i'll be clonking around in wooden shoes just yet.

< Message edited by lronitulstahp -- 2/18/2009 3:13:18 PM >


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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 3:11:18 PM   
SilverMark


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As a legal issue Civil Rights indeed is encompassed by the job of Attorney General....and as a group Americans aren't great at dealing with race....we never have been.
It might very well be one of the most touchy issues and most of us aren't ever comfortable discussing it and especially with those of another race. There is validity to his statement.

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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 3:14:22 PM   
kittinSol


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General reply: if these boards are representative of the state of racial awareness and sentiment in America today, there's still a shit load of work to be done. Whenever a black politician addresses the subject it's as if someone was poking a raw nerve with a lighter, according to the reaction of certain people. Perhaps they'd do well to wonder why they feel so threatened? 

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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 3:48:24 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Nowhere did i say that MOST Latinos are are descendants of Blacks


I didn't say you did.

quote:

but i will say that MOST are descendants of some Indiginous group people.  The conquistadores did a fair amount of intermingling and  breeding, but not enough to entirely eradicate the  mostly Native origins of most Latino people.    


In some Latin American countries, mestitzos do make up the majority.  In some they don't.  Like I said, western Europeans did a fair bit of intermingling with Native Americans too.  We don't get our own racial preference group for affirmative action programs. 

quote:

A Spanish last name doesn't necessarily mean that a person is a Spaniard.  The names were forced in amny cases, and given as a means of conquering.    


You've missed the entire point of my response.  You and many others make the claim that whites will be a minority in the U.S.  It's not true, unless you combine white hispanics, non-white hispanics, blacks, asians, and indigenous North Americans into one group.  Whites will still be the largest group in 2042. 

I'll tell you why this irks me.  I've heard this assertion made since I was a child.  It's a false assertion made by professional race baiters and left wing academics to pretty much say, "In your face whitey."  Well it's a false assertion. 

When a black politician says that America is cowardly on race, he really means white America.  Well when we make an attempt to discuss these issues, we are branded racists and taunted with bogus figures about being the minority in 50 years.  When a white public figure makes a joke about race, he's ostracized.  When a black public figure does it, the Lefties giggle.  ".....When yellow will be mellow, and when white will do what's right." 

Our attorney general wants us to stop being cowardly and discuss these issues...fine by me.  But he should recognize the double standard placed on whites in those conversations. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 2/18/2009 3:49:36 PM >

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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 4:18:36 PM   
domiguy


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I run with a great crowd. We speak our minds.

I try never to say something in front of whites that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying in front of others.  It makes life fairly easy to lead and removes the feeling of hypocrisy.

We are a polarized nation. Until we start making the same public education that is available to upper class whites available to all then I'm in support of some sort of  "affirmative action."

Whites have had it their way in this country since it's inception....Everything that any other ethnicity has achieved they have, for the most part, had to fight and die for.


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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 4:35:18 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

i wonder though, in say 2042 http://www.thebusinessedition.com/hispanics-to-form-majority-in-us-population-by-2042-1284/  when whites may no longer be the majority in this country....will the idea of Affirmative Action  and quotas to protect the rights of minorites become somehow more palatable?


Bullshit.  I get so sick of hearing that.  Hispanic isn't a race, it includes a large percentage of caucasians.  Even if you include white Hispanics, they still only make up 30% of the estimated population in 2042.  "Whites" which is any person of European decent without a Spanish surname will still make up 42% of the population.  You only make whites a minority, when you combine Asians, Hispanics, and Blacks together.  Seperated, whites still make up the largest group. 

Actually you are partially correct. The so-called Hispanic or often termed Latinos are a by product of Spanish colonialism which is anglo-European.

However, over the last several centuries have had a many varied offspring mixed with islanders and Asian now often called Carribean or polynesian and represent the same as creol or mulatto. So much of the Latino population now are a vast mix of races born of that colonialism.

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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 4:43:30 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I run with a great crowd. We speak our minds.

I try never to say something in front of whites that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying in front of others.  It makes life fairly easy to lead and removes the feeling of hypocrisy.

We are a polarized nation. Until we start making the same public education that is available to upper class whites available to all then I'm in support of some sort of  "affirmative action."

Whites have had it their way in this country since it's inception....Everything that any other ethnicity has achieved they have, for the most part, had to fight and die for.

Correct but what is 'white' or ethnic ? The Germans, Irish, Italians etc. had to blend, learn, work to survive as well. The Irish were among the most marginalized of all European 'ethnics' yet came out strong and without any special help.

The problem since has been the power structure of whites actually acting very similar but most often NOW not nearly as oppressive as other 'ethnically' pure power structures around the world.

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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 4:59:56 PM   
lronitulstahp


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quote:

It's a false assertion made by professional race baiters and left wing academics to pretty much say, "In your face whitey."  Well it's a false assertion. 



There are professional race baiters???? Holy shit, with all the threads on this site alone started by race baiting hobbyists....i see some people are missing out on their true potential!  Somebody better check Monster.com before that niche gets all filled up....especially in this economy.

As far as "in your face whitey!" well that just stinks of paranoia...i'll let you in a little secret...and this may get my Race card taken away....psst "there is no conspiracy to stick it to "whitey"....it's a false assertion made by fearful hate mongering groups and individuals that has been perpetuated throughout the history of this country.  It's about as grounded in reality as the idea that because of the acts of some slaveholders, all white people are evil, and hateful, and enjoy oppressing all people of color. 

i really sincerely hope you don't buy into that slaveboy.  You seem like a bright person, and i enjoy learning alot from your perspective in regards to many  historical  facts.  i also enjoy heated debate, if respectful, and thoughtful.  Without any hysteria....this thread could be proof that the Attorney General has less to worry about than he thinks.


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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 5:05:09 PM   
Vendaval


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In my experience, talking openly about race and ethnic backgrounds is usually a taboo subject in most social settings.  That changes if you find people coming together for that specific discussion.  Sometimes I let racist comments pass and sometimes I speak my mind, it depends on the circumstances.  What is different now from say the 1950's, is that most conversations about race are behind closed doors.

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 5:18:51 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

I run with a great crowd. We speak our minds.

I try never to say something in front of whites that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying in front of others.  It makes life fairly easy to lead and removes the feeling of hypocrisy.

We are a polarized nation. Until we start making the same public education that is available to upper class whites available to all then I'm in support of some sort of  "affirmative action."

Whites have had it their way in this country since it's inception....Everything that any other ethnicity has achieved they have, for the most part, had to fight and die for.

Correct but what is 'white' or ethnic ? The Germans, Irish, Italians etc. had to blend, learn, work to survive as well. The Irish were among the most marginalized of all European 'ethnics' yet came out strong and without any special help.



Not talking about anywhere else.

The Irish were not given shit when they arrived. They had to fight and die. However, it is difficult to look at someone and say with complete confidence that they are Irish.  They didn't have to learn to blend...They simply blended.  They lost the accent and voila! They got here on the fucking Mayflower! All Europeans found it easy enough in this land. Those who have had it tough were the ones that could not simply blend in to the fabric of this nation.

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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 5:20:39 PM   
MarsBonfire


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I'm still waiting for an answer to a question that was first posed on the national stage by Jerry Seinfeld.... "If I LIKE their race... is it racist?"

I keep thinking about all the various races of people I've met members of, and how there have been very, very few assholes among them... (most of the assholes I know are of my own race... [just look at some of the people on this forum, and you'll see what I mean. Most are white like me.] Sorry about that, everyone!) I guess I'm the opposite of racist, in many ways....

What's the word for that? A xenophile?

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RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 5:28:56 PM   
Vendaval


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Time for clearing up a few misconceptions here, Anglo specifically refers to White and English speaking, not French and not Spanish.
As an example think of the term WASP = White, Anglo-Saxon and Protestant.
 
Think back to history lessons on the European colonial empires in the New World.  The French and Spanish were much more likely to intermarry and have progency with the Indigenous Peoples and Carribbean Natives and Black Slaves than the English soldiers and colonists.  Which is why you have terms like creole and mulatto and mestizo.  Mezlcar = mix --> origin of the term Mexican.  Hispanic is a term referring specifically to people speaking the Spanish language.
 
So you have two terms commonly used, Hispanic and Latino/a, that refer to ethnic origins, national origins and the Spanish language.  And within the same population different social and geographical areas use the terms a bit differently.  Like the differences in cuisine and terminology between Califs (California) and Tejas (Texas) and Florida.


"n.  Anglo pl. An·glos also an·glos

  • Informal An Anglo-American.
  • An English-speaking person, especially a white North American who is not of Hispanic or French descent.
    Usage Note: In contemporary American usage, Anglo is used primarily in direct contrast to Hispanic or Latino. In this context it is not limited to persons of English or even British descent, but can be generally applied to any non-Hispanic white person. Thus in parts of the United States with large Hispanic populations, an American of Polish, Irish, or German heritage might be termed an Anglo just as readily as a person of English descent. However, in parts of the country where the Hispanic community is smaller or nonexistent, or in areas where ethnic distinctions among European groups remain strong, Anglo has little currency as a catch-all term for non-Hispanic whites."

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anglo's?r=14



    "n.   Latino pl. La·ti·nos
    A Latin American.

    A person of Hispanic, especially Latin-American, descent, often one living in the United States. "

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Latino



    "Hispanic
    Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.

  • Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.
    n.   A Spanish-speaking person.

  • A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent.
    Usage Note: Though often used interchangeably in American English, Hispanic and Latino are not identical terms, and in certain contexts the choice between them can be significant. Hispanic, from the Latin word for "Spain," has the broader reference, potentially encompassing all Spanish-speaking peoples in both hemispheres and emphasizing the common denominator of language among communities that sometimes have little else in common. Latino—which in Spanish means "Latin" but which as an English word is probably a shortening of the Spanish word latinoamericano—refers more exclusively to persons or communities of Latin American origin. Of the two, only Hispanic can be used in referring to Spain and its history and culture; a native of Spain residing in the United States is a Hispanic, not a Latino, and one cannot substitute Latino in the phrase the Hispanic influence on native Mexican cultures without garbling the meaning. In practice, however, this distinction is of little significance when referring to residents of the United States, most of whom are of Latin American origin and can theoretically be called by either word. "

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hispanic


    quote:

    ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
    Actually you are partially correct. The so-called Hispanic or often termed Latinos are a by product of Spanish colonialism which is anglo-European.

    However, over the last several centuries have had a many varied offspring mixed with islanders and Asian now often called Carribean or polynesian and represent the same as creol or mulatto. So much of the Latino population now are a vast mix of races born of that colonialism.


    _____________________________

    "Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
    So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
    great day, I will tease you all the same."
    "WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


    http://KinkMeet.co.uk

    (in reply to MrRodgers)
  • Profile   Post #: 33
    RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 5:31:49 PM   
    StrangerThan


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

    Popeye, I'm with you on ending affirmative action programs.  I think he's baiting people too (specifically white people).  I've heard this assertion from blacks before.  We (meaning white people) aren't honest about their views of other races.  Honestly, there is a bit of truth to that.  But that's what happens when you turn any white person into a social pariah for uttering anything considered remotely offensive. 


    I'm not sure what he wants us to admit other than it would be a hell of a lot easier to get on with life if someone wasn't standing there demanding that you have an opinion on race so they can debate it with you. My stance is pretty simple. I don't like people in general. I don't care for the somewhat anal need to identify one's self as a hyphenated American. I don't care for avoiding truth, even if avoiding it will keep me on the good side of the racial or PC hall monitors. I nearly failed sensitivity training when I didn't want to classify myself as anything but American. The instructor felt it would promote harmony and understanding if everyone else knew where my ancestors had lived. So said I was African-American. When she turned red, I just shrugged and said if science is right, we all are.

    She really didn't want the truth. Oh, maybe the first part of it because that truth is my ancestors came across the Atlantic as indentured servants. I found them, not on the list of passengers of said ship, but on the list of cargo. That would have given her plenty of reason to commiserate, sympathize, and generally find some reason to feel sorry for me - which you know, is sorta like saying, you're less than me because of your past. She didn't want the rest of the truth - that I was raised in southern appalachia in a family so poor that if we didn't grow it, catch it or kill it, we pretty much didn't eat it. People think I'm joking or talking about the early 1900's when I tell them we plowed with mules and I didn't see my first tractor until I was 14. I'm 49. This was in the 70's. I used the GI bill and worked a dozen jobs to get through college and support two daughters. I've been told many times I was priveleged by people who didn't understand what that privelege actually was. It wasn't color. It was family. As for the rest of the privelege, if you want some, I still know people who will give you a hoe, a long hot summer, acres of potatoes, corn and beans to hoe, cows to milk, hogs to feed and dinners of corn bread and milk. It's grand stuff. Tellin ya. Then you get to go out into a work force that considers you lax, incompetent and ignorant because of where you grew up.

    I sit in board rooms and class rooms teaching people of every color, every race, every geographical corner of the US. The only thing most have impressed me with is that people are people. It's the one's who constantly seek to define and segregate that cause most of the problems.




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    RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 5:38:53 PM   
    Vendaval


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    Ever group of immigrants has faced barriers because of language, culture, skin color, etc.  The original slums on the East Coast were for the Irish immigrants who were regarded as dangerous since their were poor and Catholic and had large families and were depicted in the political cartoons as violent, sub-human drunks.  The Italians were suspect because they were also Catholic, darker skinned and spoke a different language.  The Germans were the ethnic group most directly affected by Prohibition because guess who owned all the breweries. 
     
    Anyone not in the WASP; White, Anglo-Saxon & Protestant category was suspect.  We can talk more about immigration quotas that targeted Chinese immigrants and immigrants from Eastern and Southern Europe but that is a whole other discussion.
     
    The pattern of immigration is that the first generation comes here speaking the native language and learns English but not perfectly.  Their youngsters, second generation, learn English in the school system and also speak the native tongue.  By the third generation they have pretty much assimilated into the mainstream culture and likely have changed some of their first if not their last names.  Hopefully they can retain traditions and their native languages while still being part of mainsream, post-modern America.
     
    Oh, and as a personal example, think of all the grand-unmentionables arguing in English with their grand parents in the native tongue but they can still understand each other perfectly!  That is a classic moment in the American experience.



    quote:

    ORIGINAL: domiguy

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: domiguy

    I run with a great crowd. We speak our minds.

    I try never to say something in front of whites that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying in front of others.  It makes life fairly easy to lead and removes the feeling of hypocrisy.

    We are a polarized nation. Until we start making the same public education that is available to upper class whites available to all then I'm in support of some sort of  "affirmative action."

    Whites have had it their way in this country since it's inception....Everything that any other ethnicity has achieved they have, for the most part, had to fight and die for.

    Correct but what is 'white' or ethnic ? The Germans, Irish, Italians etc. had to blend, learn, work to survive as well. The Irish were among the most marginalized of all European 'ethnics' yet came out strong and without any special help.



    Not talking about anywhere else.

    The Irish were not given shit when they arrived. They had to fight and die. However, it is difficult to look at someone and say with complete confidence that they are Irish.  They didn't have to learn to blend...They simply blended.  They lost the accent and voila! They got here on the fucking Mayflower! All Europeans found it easy enough in this land. Those who have had it tough were the ones that could not simply blend in to the fabric of this nation.


    _____________________________

    "Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
    So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
    great day, I will tease you all the same."
    "WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


    http://KinkMeet.co.uk

    (in reply to domiguy)
    Profile   Post #: 35
    RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 5:39:47 PM   
    NeedToUseYou


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    quote:

    ORIGINAL: kittinSol

    General reply: if these boards are representative of the state of racial awareness and sentiment in America today, there's still a shit load of work to be done. Whenever a black politician addresses the subject it's as if someone was poking a raw nerve with a lighter, according to the reaction of certain people. Perhaps they'd do well to wonder why they feel so threatened? 

    For the record, until I read your comment all I had read was the snippet in the OP, which made the view of the article perfectly clear(I went back and read the thing after your comment). So, at least for me my comments weren't tainted by the color of the idiot thinking its his job to pontificate on who people should associate with their personal time.

    It seems odd you'd attribute the responses as being based on him being black. That's fucked up, IMO, and speaks volumes about the glasses you are viewing the world with.

    (in reply to kittinSol)
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    RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 5:42:48 PM   
    slaveboyforyou


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    quote:

    There are professional race baiters????


    Iron, what do you think Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton do for a living?  If they're ministers, why do I never hear them talking about Jesus Christ or having discussions about the Bible? 

    quote:

    As far as "in your face whitey!" well that just stinks of paranoia...i'll let you in a little secret...and this may get my Race card taken away....psst "there is no conspiracy to stick it to "whitey"....  


    I don't think they're is a conspiracy.  I said that tongue in cheek.  But I do believe there is a concerted effort to mislead people with statistics about future racial makeup in the U.S.  I do think that this is done for racist reasons, and it's directed toward whites.  Non-hispanic whites ARE NOT going to be in the minority.  We will be the largest group out of several in the future United States.  We simply won't be an overwhelmingly white nation.  I'm not bothered by that possibility, and I'm not worried about the future. 

    quote:

    i really sincerely hope you don't buy into that slaveboy.  You seem like a bright person, and i enjoy learning alot from your perspective in regards to many  historical  facts.  i also enjoy heated debate, if respectful, and thoughtful.  Without any hysteria....this thread could be proof that the Attorney General has less to worry about than he thinks.   


    I'm not buying into anything Iron.  I appreciate the fact that you enjoy my posts, and that sentiment is mutual. 

    (in reply to lronitulstahp)
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    RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 5:56:01 PM   
    OneMoreWaste


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    Hey, complain all you want, but I think it's nice to see that the new AG has a firm grasp of the obvious. You really can't take that for granted with politicians. 

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    RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 6:22:14 PM   
    MasterShake69


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    the moment someone makes a comment or holds an opinion thats not PC and they are called racist.  Thats why there is never a real conversation about race.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

    quote:

    WASHINGTON – Attorney General Eric Holder described the United States Wednesday as a nation of cowards on matters of race, saying most Americans avoid discussing awkward racial issues. In a speech to Justice Department employees marking Black History Month, Holder said the workplace is largely integrated but Americans still self-segregate on the weekends and in their private lives.


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090218/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/holder_race

    Apparently Mr. Holder doesn't think we spend enough times talking about race.  We're a bunch of cowards, because we're not out in our local taverns and coffeeshops having open, frank discussions about important topics like skin color and ancesteral origins. 

    So let's have a discussion about "racial matters."  Our new attorney general has sent out the call, and we should all stand up and take notice.  Otherwise, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton may soon be out of work.  We have to keep this fight against racism perpetual. 

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    RE: U.S. Attorney General thinks America is cowardly on... - 2/18/2009 6:29:06 PM   
    MasterShake69


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        a slightly different topic.  Don't you find it funny that Hispanics which are descendants of Native-Americans want to speak there language in the united states.  A language (spanish)of the people who initially conquered them ;)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

    Did i hit a nerve? You're correct that Hispanic isn't a race, but Latinos aren't Caucasians....they are a mix of races, largely descendants of Native-Americans  that mixed often  with white, and commonly African Americans.
    Es Verdad....lo siento.
    edited to add....if you read the link i included...it was including Blacks and Asians....i wan't trying to mislead or bullshit anyone.

    (in reply to lronitulstahp)
    Profile   Post #: 40
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