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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 7:11:48 PM   
Sfortzando


Posts: 174
Joined: 1/30/2009
Status: offline 		So next time you are tempted to label someone as "vanilla" be sure you've taken time to peer inside the packaging and check the contents.
 
Yes dad. Can I go outside and play now, or do I have to finish my vegetables, first?

Lables, along with judgement and descrimination, are a vital part of a functioning society. They help communicate ideas and allow people to more easily relate to one another. I lable myself 'kinky', and my good friend lables herself 'vanilla'. We don't mean anything derogatory towards one another by it - it's just a quick, easy way to describe what we are in this regard. The same can be applied generally. While there are certainly instances where vanilla is meant as more of a slur, most of the times it's just another way of saying not kinky.

To hijack the oft quoted cliche - guns don't kill people. People kill people. Lables aren't the issue, here.

(in reply to pdv99)
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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 7:21:12 PM   
SassySarijane


Posts: 1558
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: KC Area Missouri
Status: offline 		I know the term vanilla is often used in a derogatory manner to describe those not into what we do. For me it has always translated, with no derision, to someone not into bdsm, plain and simply.

Here is the definition given in "The Dictionary of Scene-Friendly Terms":

Vanilla Describes things, activities and people who are not part of the SM scene, for example, "We had vanilla sex last night," meaning "We had sex without including any SM scene elements." The term is no longer derogatory except as used by immature, cliquish, snobby, poopie heads who don't think the way we do. [Devon & Miller]

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 7:25:51 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		I have seen labels that show racism, sexism and many other kinds of prejudice. I've seen labels be very destructive. Yes, you are right, Sfortzando, we do need to label things so we can function. I have made a personal decision to avoid labels that are not necessary. I have a friend. Some call him gay and many have other hurtful names for him. I just call him friend. Much simpler to me. I am not condemning everyone who uses labels, I just ask you to think if you really need the label to describe the person or group.

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 7:37:10 PM   
Voodali


Posts: 255
Joined: 10/2/2007
Status: offline 		I think someone needs to come up with and ice cream themed code, similar to the hanky code (if they haven't already).  If vanilla=standard missionary heterosexual activity and whatnot, how about the other flavors ?  Chocolate is the most obvious one, but what about raspberry ripple, chocolate mint and rocky road ?  Which flavor is the most perverse ? Is there a hierarchy of flavors, with vanilla being at the bottom and something like blue bubblegum and razorblades being at the top ? What flavor are you ?

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 7:52:08 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		yummm...bubblegum icecream..... havent had that in YEARS!

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 7:54:16 PM   
Sfortzando


Posts: 174
Joined: 1/30/2009
Status: offline 		I'm gay. I have lots of gay friends. I have lots of straight friends. They are all my friends, but if some chick comes up and asks if 'Joe' might be interested in her, I don't say "No, Joe's my friend", I say "No, Joe's gayer than a tree full of monkies on nitrousoxide".

As far as racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry is concerned - lables only have as much power as we give them. We queers and lezzies are taking back the word faggot in much the same way as African Americans have taken back the N word. My girlfriends and I throw the words bitch, cunt, and whore around at eachother all the time because we can, and we know that we're not actually bitches(at least, not usually), cunts, or whores. My mother and my father label themselves divorcees, and while it's certainly not the be all, end all of who they are, the label decribes generically, but effectively, a significant part of their lives and has even gotten them dates! (I'm a divorcee." "Oh really? I feel you, babe...")

The problem isn't in the lables themselves - it's when people get so hung up about them that people forget they're just tools for describing what we are and then don't take the time to look further into who we are.

(in reply to MidMichCowboy)
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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 8:10:18 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		You make a very good argument. I've just decided that labels are too confining to describe a person.
I had a very good friend, Robert. Some called him gay. That was so one dimensional. He was the only person who I trusted to watch my autistic son when I needed help. He was the person who convinced me I was brave enough to go to Rocky Horror Picture show in drag (God knows you won't have to worry about that happening again, I blinded over a dozen people). I got to teach him to ride horse. He tried to teach me some photography, but I will never have his eye for light and composition. He taught me how to conduct oneself at the end of life. Yes, I guess he was gay, but he was so much more.
I will acknowledge you are right and labels will be used. You are a very intelligent lady and you make very persuasive argument. I will just quietly continue in my way of trying to look deeper and avoid one dimensional labels.

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 8:20:04 PM   
Sfortzando


Posts: 174
Joined: 1/30/2009
Status: offline 		I agree with you as well, to a point. Labels are one dimensional. That's why we use more than one of them. I'm not just gay, I'm a gay, female, starving art student who's a fanfiction geek and kinky. All that tells you is what I am. It doesn't say a damn thing about who I am. When people start assuming our lables are what we are is when problems arise, the the problems are with the people - not the lables. 

(in reply to MidMichCowboy)
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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 8:22:42 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

quit eating deer


I am in rural Virginia, so that's not an option.

QED - quod erat demonstrandum, freely translated "it proves my point" (literal "that which had to be proven"). Once you live in the US for a while, you learn not to do things like "QED", "sub judice", "fortnight", and "the trouble and strife"....

Hey...he just got one 2 weeks ago.  Give it time!!!!! And you forgot "meat and two veg"   that's my personal favorite!!!!!

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 8:24:11 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		*snort*

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 8:39:17 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		^^^^fast reply^^^^
A number of years ago I was in a kinky chatroom.  One man mentioned that he lived in city X and I said ‘hey, my sister lives there!’ He asked if she was married, and I said ‘yeah, but even if she was single, she’s vanilla.’ 
His reply:  “I date white women sometimes.”
It’s all about the context, isn’t it?


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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 8:49:31 PM   
Sfortzando


Posts: 174
Joined: 1/30/2009
Status: offline 		I date white women, sometime.

Lol! I never thought about it that way. Context is way important. 

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 9:13:58 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

if some chick comes up and asks if 'Joe' might be interested in her, I don't say "No, Joe's my friend", I say "No, Joe's gayer than a tree full of monkies on nitrousoxide".

*Wipes sprayed beverage from computer monitor* Thanks for that!!

I totally agree with you, BTW. Labels are just a shortcut way of referring to a given characteristic, not the be-all, end-all of who someone is as a person. I'm a het kinky submissive, which says only 3 things about me, and certainly not the most important 3 things. Vanilla, as it is used in this community, simply means someone not into BDSM, D/s, or kink (now we get to define kink, lol). It really means nothing more than that until it is put into context, at which point it becomes either a broad definition with no judgement attached to it, a compliment, or an insult- depending on how it is used.

As is always the case, context matters more than the actual definition of a word, if there even is an actual definition. 


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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 9:29:52 PM   
Sfortzando


Posts: 174
Joined: 1/30/2009
Status: offline 		No prob! The monkies thing is usually good for a spittake or two.

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 9:31:49 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		I'm not one for either behaviourism or dualism as I see everyone as an individual. I try not to use labels which are unnecessary and certainly those which are derogatory.

I personally disagree that some people are not kinky, as I feel that kink along with stupidity are intrinsic parts of human nature.

I've also read here that it means sex which is 'boring' or 'conventional'.. but then again I have to ask, when is sex boring or conventional?

Is it when you're both lying there sweating so much it's starting to trickle into your eyes? It's been over twenty minutes, nothing much has been happening apart from the gentle rocking motion of the mattress, the rhythmic tapping of the headboard against the bedroom wall, and he's breathlessly trying to communicate.. 'Almost there love..' whilst she's lying there terrified, watching a wasp flying around the room, hoping it's not going to land on his sweaty, hairy bottom?

'Is it in yet love?'
'Can't feel it.'
'Oh fuck.'
'Here... let me help you'
Is this what we mean by conventional sex?

Is it when you're both there on the bed, five or six condoms lie unused but discarded on the bedroom carpet, and he announces that the last available condom in the house 'isn't going to go on properly'?

Or worse, the condom fits.. the right hand comes into play, he climbs on top of her, it goes in.. there is a pause...

'Darling, it's gone soft again..'

This couple are getting it together, she's all excited, he can feel it coming but it's all under control,she's just about to come... then there's a knock on the bedroom door.

Silence.

And on the other side, 'Mummy, can I have a drink of water?'

On this side... sighs.

I admit to being a little tongue in cheek here, but I'm assuming that everyone 'does it' a little differently from everyone else, so is sex really all that conventional and boring?

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 9:37:44 PM   
Racquelle


Posts: 600
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline 		Its the lusty seed pod of a tropical orchid, cultivated and coveted.  They pick and dry the pod - sweat it under thick blankets, cure it, pamper it...until it has reached a state so exquisite that the mere scent of it is an aphrodisiac.

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 9:56:46 PM   
Sfortzando


Posts: 174
Joined: 1/30/2009
Status: offline 		Mmmm...talk foodie to me.

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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 9:58:01 PM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline 		Can't argue with that.

(in reply to Sfortzando)
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RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 10:01:05 PM   
softopening4u


Posts: 20
Joined: 2/16/2009
Status: offline 		vanilla is that that is ...the untrusted.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Define Vanilla, Go On ...... - 2/20/2009 11:25:14 PM   
TranceTara


Posts: 152
Joined: 12/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Sfortzando
Lables, along with judgement and descrimination, are a vital part of a functioning society. They help communicate ideas and allow people to more easily relate to one another. I lable myself 'kinky', and my good friend lables herself 'vanilla'. We don't mean anything derogatory towards one another by it - it's just a quick, easy way to describe what we are in this regard.


quote:

MidMichCowboy
I just ask you to think if you really need the label to describe the person or group.


quote:

Sfortzando
We queers and lezzies are taking back the word faggot in much the same way as African Americans have taken back the N word. My girlfriends and I throw the words bitch, cunt, and whore around at eachother all the time because we can, and we know that we're not actually bitches(at least, not usually), cunts, or whores.


quote:

MidMichCowboy
I've just decided that labels are too confining to describe a person.


quote:

Sfortzando
Labels are one dimensional. That's why we use more than one of them.I'm not just gay, I'm a gay, female, starving art student who's a fanfiction geek and kinky. All that tells you is what I am. It doesn't say a damn thing about who I am.


You both bring up such great points. (And 100 bonus points for knowing about vanillin Sfortzando!) Yes, labels can be confining. That is because of our attachment to them. If I say the word tree, what is the first thing that comes to your mind? To some they may think of redwood, some maple, some may think of future paper, others may think of home to birds, etc. We all have preconceived ideas and notions. Sometimes we need to use a label to help get our point across. But, we do not need to be attached to that label. That is what I got when you said the label may describe *what* we are, but NOT *who* we are. It gives an idea about us, but does not touch upon our essence.

Intention is extremely important as well. If one's intent is to malign or bring about an ill intent, then it is not a label to me. It is a slur.

I do not like to define myself. Some people use the term multi-dimensional. If I were to label myself: the former dyke militant lesbian separtist turned bisexual then leather pain slut kinkster lesbian turned spiritual explorer vanilla girl turned zen buddhist asexual celibate turned bisexual explorer seeking something turned Tibetan Buddhist tantra lover turned celibate seeker guitar loving acoustic/folk/blues middle aged sort of submissive not quite slave but something turned... LOL I've lived a lot longer than you Sfortazando so I have more labels which can explain what I have been, what has molded me and what I may be now, but not the future me.

I love the analogy in buddhism of the finger pointing at the moon. A guru can show the way, but do not confuse the way with the teachings. Yet, many need something to relate to before they find there is no way, it just is. All we have is this moment and in this moment I cannot be defined. Unfortunately our 3rd dimensional material world would not be able to function without labels. So, the Newtonian/Decartesian/dualistic/label views have a purpose. But in the grand scheme, they don't help define our essence for the Truth of who we are is beyond any intellectual capacity of understanding. First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is a mountain, only now I am not attached to *mountain*. It just is. When someone is pointing at the moon, do not get lost in their finger, look at the moon. (Now, if their finger is in my cunt, then I might be more focused on that finger. )

When it says lezzie, lezzie, lezzie on her label, label, label you will like her, like her, like her on your table, table, table.



quote:

Sfortzando
"No, Joe's gayer than a tree full of monkies on nitrousoxide".


quote:

Voodali
I think someone needs to come up with and ice cream themed code, similar to the hanky code


Okay, now I am thinking Ben and Jerry's Chunky Monkey!

Sláinte,
TT



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“Listen, I am trying to cope with the presence of God and the Universal Human Experience, and I haven’t even had a cup of tea yet!” -French and Saunders

(in reply to Sfortzando)
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