RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar

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GreedyTop -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 9:22:49 AM)
[sm=applause.gif] beeble!

aidan -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 9:34:02 AM)
I'd just like to point out I've noticed the subtle but still present prejudice in a lot of the posts about younger subs in this thread. While I'm not particularly mad at anybody for comments like young people generally being morons, bugs, whatever, because a lot of you have been kind to me while I've been here, it doesn't make me feel any better or care any less when you say "Oh, but Aidan, he's one of the good ones." And you're right MoGa, I suppose technically people have the right to be rude and bigoted. But just because one can do something does not mean they should do something. If people are going to air their biases they should expect to be called on it.

MoGa -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 9:53:44 AM)
quote: And you're right MoGa, I suppose technically people have the right to be rude and bigoted. But just because one can do something does not mean they should do something. If people are going to air their biases they should expect to be called on it. Aidan, I agree. That is why I mentioned the fact that your Mistress was calling people "bigots" here on this thread. She has already called out those who used words like "bugs" and "morons" to prove her point. I used her words to prove my point. Just because she can call people bigots, doesn't mean that she necessarily should. That is my point. Be well <Hugs> MoGa

aidan -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 10:09:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MoGa quote: And you're right MoGa, I suppose technically people have the right to be rude and bigoted. But just because one can do something does not mean they should do something. If people are going to air their biases they should expect to be called on it. Aidan, I agree. That is why I mentioned the fact that your Mistress was calling people "bigots" here on this thread. She has already called out those who used words like "bugs" and "morons" to prove her point. I used her words to prove my point. Just because she can call people bigots, doesn't mean that she necessarily should. That is my point. Be well <Hugs> MoGa Well, if it's an accurate description of their actions and views... I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not a nice thing to be called. Most people who are prejudiced, bigoted, whatever, don't like to be told they are. The way to avoid this is very simple; either try to change your outlook, or don't make insulting, generalizing statements about others. Or, to put this another way: if I walk around dressed as a police officer, and people come up to me reporting crimes, I really shouldn't get bent out of shape about it. I may not be a cop, but I am wearing a cop's uniform.

Lockit -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 10:15:18 AM)
I have read every post that LH has made on this thread and no where does she say anything insulting or offensive towards younger men. Yet she was picked out of the group to first come against and accuse when the anger was actually at other's who said things that cannot be pushed off on the one pointed out first. If you are upset about bug statements, then point to that person not someone else and accuse them of the words coming from another. LH didn't say those things. To come against her shows a number of things that I would consider unfair and maybe even predudice agasint her personally. Why else would you give her credit for something that someone else said? I think LH presented her position in a light hearted manner without insult. The wrong person was pointed out...

GreedyTop -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 10:16:26 AM)
~fr~ wow. just.. wow.

Lockit -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 10:20:34 AM)
I don't understand Greedy. I don't see where LH said anything like what she was called out for.

MoGa -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 10:29:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aidan quote: ORIGINAL: MoGa quote: And you're right MoGa, I suppose technically people have the right to be rude and bigoted. But just because one can do something does not mean they should do something. If people are going to air their biases they should expect to be called on it. Aidan, I agree. That is why I mentioned the fact that your Mistress was calling people "bigots" here on this thread. She has already called out those who used words like "bugs" and "morons" to prove her point. I used her words to prove my point. Just because she can call people bigots, doesn't mean that she necessarily should. That is my point. Be well <Hugs> MoGa Well, if it's an accurate description of their actions and views... I mean, don't get me wrong, it's not a nice thing to be called. Most people who are prejudiced, bigoted, whatever, don't like to be told they are. The way to avoid this is very simple; either try to change your outlook, or don't make insulting, generalizing statements about others. Or, to put this another way: if I walk around dressed as a police officer, and people come up to me reporting crimes, I really shouldn't get bent out of shape about it. I may not be a cop, but I am wearing a cop's uniform. That goes along with the freedom of speech I was speaking about. These are opinions, based on what they believe. Whether it is right, wrong or bigoted or not, is irrelevant. It is their right to freely state how they feel, just as it is my right to either take offense by it or not. Now, if people come up to me and Geoff (Which they do) and state their opinions about our age differences, they have that right, but I also have the right to tell them to fuck off (Which I do). It is all in the way we choose to react in any given circumstance. MoGa <Trying hard not to picture Aidan in a police uniform> [:D]

Lockit -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 10:45:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit I am not sure that anything we said was trashy, racist or comparable to what you have said here. In one thread, we have younger men referred to as both "insects" and "morons", it is clearly stated that they cannot carry on a conversation after scening and that they are to be used as meat at best, and we have it heavily implied by both you and Hib that they lack moral character and are incapable of offering you the understanding and care that you need, while AUTOMATICALLY older men are more likely to do so--simply because they are older. You are putting words into my mouth. What I said was that I felt from prior experience with older and younger men that I would be more likely to find what I need in an older man because of his life experience. There are fools of all age's. If I said something similar about subs from the military, men of another race, gender assignation or national origin, etc? People around here would ride up my ass with a jet-fueled broomstick. And rightly so, because I would be horribly rude and also flat-out wrong. The rules of common courtesy and decency do not change because we are discussing people of a different age group. Trash is trash, bigotry is bigotry, and really unpleasant remarks do not get any more attractive when they are leveled by the power group of "age" than when they are leveled by the power group of "gender" or "race". I do not care about anyone's preferences so long as they are simply preferences. What I don't like to hear is people justifying their preferences by making nasty generalizations. And no, I'm sorry, I don't get any more sympathetic when people basically excuse their attitudes by saying "Well yes, maybe AIDAN is special, but in general young people are scum." I wouldn't want to hear that if my partner were black or a woman and I don't want to hear it because he's under thirty either. I persoanlly did not say anyone was scum, not did I imply it and I don't believe that LH did either. There are special people of all age's... for the most part, younger men would not be who I wanted a relationship with for many reasons, but there are some younger men who I think are amazing and some who are simply young. That doesn't have to be an insult. They are the maturity of their age, but other's are not. I have been with a couple of those rare types. Why would I insult all young men if I have been with young men? If you are unaware of all the nasty little remarks and comments about young people that have been posted to this thread, try reading it again. Then imagine that these women are talking about anyone you respect or care about in this tone. You will have no problem seeing the "trashy" and the bigoted if you look at this from my point of view. I did not see the post you were talking about. I went back and read it today and saw the post then. I focused more on what LH and I said. I just don't see where LH got credit for the trash talkin bigotry.

ShaktiSama -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 1:43:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beeble I'm sorry but I disagree strongly and find your comparisons with racism to be a complete red herring. Sorry you don't get the obvious similarities between one irrational prejudice and another. A lot of bigots don't. It's part of the defensive bastion with which they defend their bigotry and insulate themselves from reality. quote: Emotional maturity is acquired gradually. The fact that you assert something like this, and that it may be true in your case, does not make it a fact that applies to all people. There are at least three 20-year-olds on this thread who are more mature than many people twice and three times their age. quote: If the only difference is legality, why aren't you campaigning against this `unjust' law? Wow, speaking of red herrings? Are you seriously trying to compare me, or any other person in a relationship with a consenting adult, with a fucking child molester? Wow, could you people recycle the tactics that get used on gay people a LITTLE BIT MORE, do you think? [:'(]

ShaktiSama -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 1:57:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit I did not see the post you were talking about. I went back and read it today and saw the post then. I focused more on what LH and I said. I just don't see where LH got credit for the trash talkin bigotry. LH doesn't get credit for that; my only disagreement with her OR with you are the times when you are basically arguing that young people are less capable of love or nurturance than older people are. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of offenders in this thread who are far more crude and up front about their remarks, but since the same prejudice is shared across the board, I'm just dealing with the prejudice. I am not necessarily one of those people who finds a prejudice more acceptable if you say "homosexual" rather than "fag". In any case, as I said before--I've made the only positive points I had to make about this issue long ago. If you feel I have misunderstood or misrepresented you, I apologize. I understand that you have a number of special concerns in your relationships with men; my only response to these aspects of your posts was to point out that many of us do. I do not wish you less happiness than anyone else, regardless of the age of your partners. I am simply do not agree with the ageist stereotypes that are present in the BDSM community and in society at large, and since they affect me and my loved ones personally--I tend to take them personally.

beeble -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 3:47:01 PM)
quote: beeble wrote: Emotional maturity is acquired gradually. ShaktiSama wrote: The fact that you assert something like this, and that it may be true in your case, does not make it a fact that applies to all people. There are people who wake up one morning and are suddenly fully emotionally mature, having not been so when they went to bed the previous night? quote: ShaktiSama wrote: There are at least three 20-year-olds on this thread who are more mature than many people twice and three times their age. Um. I never said there weren't quote: ShaktiSama wrote: Wow, speaking of red herrings? Are you seriously trying to compare me, or any other person in a relationship with a consenting adult, with a fucking child molester? Absolutely not. You are engaged in a consensual relationship with somebody who is perfectly capable of making his own informed decisions about his life. The point is not his age but his maturity. But why does this argument apply to a 20-year-old when it doesn't apply to somebody one day before the age of sexual consent? Why isn't the acceptability of that relationship judged on the maturity of the participants rather than their ages? Why is it bigoted not to consider a relationship with a 20-year-old but commendable to vehemently reject a relationship with somebody fractionally below the age of consent? beeble. [Edited to fix broken quoting]

ShaktiSama -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 4:11:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beeble The point is not his age but his maturity. And the point has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've been talking about. There has been NO indication from anyone in this thread that there is any desire to challenge the age of consent laws. Shall we arbitrarily change the subject next to having sex with animals, so that you can dehumanize me and my partner further? Or are you content with simply repeatedly comparing me to a rapist of children?

Lockit -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 4:34:07 PM)
Shaktisama, you continue to put words in our mouths with intent that is so far off base because you view all things as you see them. Well I can't even agree with you because you add to the mix of anything we say and project. Therefore, I will not argue as I didn't imply or say the things you have claimed. I said an older man has more life experience and that is what I need in my life and if that isn't good enough for you... stew baby. I am done with your easy insult and frustrations. Have a great night.

hardbodysub -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 4:54:09 PM)
quote: I happen to think an older man just may be more suitable and understanding of my limitations. It isn't bias... it is experience I am deciding that on. I have to agree with ShaktiSama on this one. The above statement is the literal definition of bias. Bias isn't intrinsically bad. A lot of the time, there's a very good reason for it. But if you have any predisposition in favor of, or against, someone because of his age, if you have a preconceived notion that he's more or less likely to fit your desires because of his age, that is bias. You will probably find that the bias works quite well for you in most cases. But you will probably miss out on some of the exceptional cases, the outliers, men whose age belies their other qualities.

hardbodysub -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 4:56:55 PM)
Maybe you wouldn't actually be a cougar, but would you feel like a cougar if your "boytoy" looked much younger, even if he wasn't?

Lockit -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 5:00:58 PM)
Okay I am biased in not wanting a man in his twenties for whatever reasons I have previously given. Read all my post to hear all I have said. I have been with younger men... I just want a man with more life experience than a man in his twenties typically has... I shall burn in hell I am sure for my bias... Take one sentence out of all my post and not consider the whole... or all that was said... lol I know my life... and that is that... call me whatever you want... I really don't care. So we can add bias to bitch. lol

beeble -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 5:05:35 PM)
quote: ShaktiSama wrote: [...] are you content with simply repeatedly comparing me to a rapist of children? I am not accusing you of being a child rapist. I am not accusing you of being morally equivalent to a child rapist. I am not accusing you of being anything like a child rapist. For the record, I do not think there is anything wrong with your relationship. I don't give a hoot how old you are or how old your partner is. I am pointing out that, whatever you may say about people who aren't interested in having a relationship with a 20-year-old, it is considered perfectly normal to not consider having a relationship with somebody who's just below the age of consent. Therefore, for some ages, it is OK to say `That person is too young for me, regardless of their maturity' but, for other ages, it's unreasonable to disregard somebody just because of their age. Now, different people will put that boundary in different places. I think everyone will agree that it should be at least the age of consent but what's so completely unreasonable about putting it a little higher? You shouldn't be so quick to condemn as a bigot anyone who puts a boundary line in a different place to you. beeble.

ShaktiSama -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 5:21:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beeble You shouldn't be so quick to condemn as a bigot anyone who puts a boundary line in a different place to you. Try to get this clear: I don't give a damn where anyone else sets their personal boundaries. What I care about is whether the speak about and to others in a rude, belittling, and degrading fashion. You can set your personal boundaries anywhere you like them. You don't like men, women, transsexuals, blacks, whites, Asians, young people, old people, fat people, thin people, stupid people, weird people, vanilla people? That's your affair. It's your body and your life--do what you want with them. The place where it crosses over the line is when you open your mouth and you express these personal druthers in a way that is belittling, degrading, rude or tends to promulgate negative stereotypes of others. This is when your personal opinions become a problem to the rest of the world. The very title of this thread contains a common insult which is leveled at women who have relationships with younger men. There are comments and attitudes in this thread which are genuinely belittling, degrading and offensive. This is what I object to. I do NOT care what people's personal preferences are. I do NOT care what choices they make in their own lives, so long as they hurt no one else. But promoting negative stereotypes of others is NOT a public service, nor is it a human right. In fact, it's just the opposite.

hardbodysub -> RE: Confessions of a femdom cougar (2/27/2009 5:30:52 PM)
I did read your post, as well as the others, but it was all irrelevant to my comment, which was purely about the definition of "bias". As I said, bias isn't intrinsically wrong. Having a bias is often logical. But we should recognize that the bias exists, and how it affect our decisions, because it's not always a positive thing.

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