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ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

You have to realize that the other end of the spectrum exists as well.  Honestly, how many other submissives Aidan's age has proven to be as good of a submissive for you?  Out of the countless number out there, how many have really measured up in any sort of comparison?

I have nothing against you defending your position, your preference, or your sub.  I'm just saying that along with the cream of the crop, the bottom of the barrel and all those in the middle exist as well.

The long and the short of it is that I don't see any relationship between being exceptional and age--or being a dullard and age. One of the most tiresome experiences I've had with a submissive in my life was the 48-year-old I dated before I collared Aidan.

Same is true of a lot of other superficial features that people really can't control, and which can be construed as positive or negative depending on whether you choose to have an open mind.

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ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama

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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Thank you, Lockit!  As a person with chronic illnesses looking ahead to years of caregiving, I am glad that someone sees what I am seeing!

I'm not sure why this is such a big deal for you, Shakti. 

A number of reasons, some of which should be quite obvious. If I was a woman with a black male submissive in my life, and a group of my peers were having such a very bigoted, trashy little conversation about how they could never dominate a black man because blah blah racist assholes blah--? Then yeah, I would be a pretty shitty person if I didn't say something, and respond very negatively.
 
I am not sure that anything we said was trashy, racist or comparable to what you have said here.  Of course you have every right to defend what you believe in, but I really don't know what exactly you think we have said that was insulting to younger men.  We have said that we want conversation with our spouse that basically flows with understanding of basically things we have known and experienced.  That isn't calling younger men stupid or dull or anything else.  It is simply that we want someone of our own age group that get's what we talk about. 


I don't like the belittling and insulting tone that this thread began with, quite frankly. And even without the ugly tone of some of the posts, it's been demonstrated in the course of this thread that certain reasoning about the vices of younger men is...to put it as politely as possible...faulty at best.

What tone are you talking about?  What vices have we spoken of?

MoGa has been kind enough to share her personal experience with us, for example. She sounds as if she has her own health issues to deal with these days. She doesn't use those issues as an excuse for discriminating against younger men. In fact, she seems to have been very happy with a younger submissive, who is well aware of her health issues and adores and serves her anyway.

We haven't said that we couldn't find a younger man who would face it all with us.  What is right for some isn't going to be right for others and I do believe we should have a choice in how we handle the illness's or our family life and whatever is going on there.  Some of us have adult um's that might have issue with things... some who dont have children might not consider that fact and even if we didn't, it is still a choice of how we handle what we have going on.  What might be happening in one situation could be far different even if there are similar situations.  We haven't said it couldn't happen... we only said we didn't want it to happen in our own live's and I don't think that is insulting or abusive towards anyone.
 
Some may be very happy with a rare younger man, but really, how many would want an older woman, ill and with parents or other family members who are ill too?  That is a lot to take on.  There are mobilty issues at my house.  There is a fact that I cannot get out very often because of my adult son's hours and needs.  You cannot compare our situations even if they seem similar.  Some older men have had families of their own, have had illness themselves or situations that would help them be prepared for this.  I am not saying a younger man couldn't do it... I am saying an older man might handle it all better.

I don't discuss the details of my own personal situation much, LadyH, but YOU should be well aware that my mother has serious physical handicaps and mental health issues. Further more, we share a home; my 20-year-old submissive deals with this every day and does so every bit as well as many older men would--considerably better than most. Moreover, he had every chance to make up his mind about this relationship with full knowledge beforehand of my situation.

I know some younger men who are caregiver's that are amazing, but again it is hard to compare situations.  I am happy for you all... I really am and I respect all of this more than you will most likely believe, but it isn't something that is going to happen in my situation most likely. 

If reality had anything to do with it, in other words, this conversation would be over. But that's the problem with prejudices--people will continue to defend them LONG after they've been proven to have no basis in reality.

If you say so... reality can often be based on many things of a more personal nature.  And we all know, people view things differently and that doesn't have to amount to prejudice or a lack of reality.

I really don't give a damn who y'all choose to sleep with, or to dominate. If you're only ATTRACTED to older men, physically--groovy. Personal attraction is just personal attraction--it's not about character. But I can seriously do without the "reasons" that people use to justify their personal tastes, many of which have really ugly implications if you actually hold them up to the light. I can also seriously do without the weird ego trips that older people inflict on younger people on these forums and in this community, for no other reason than because they're older.

The majority of what I am hearing here is that younger people are morally inferior to older people and that they are not worth loving or dominating because they are not real people.

No one said anything of the kind as far as I am aware.  It seems you are putting meaning to our words that I seriously don't see.  I do not feel anyone is inferior as a human being or in worth.  We have stated that we want someone that knows where we are coming from and it is easier and have mentioned issues with society and family... which we don't have to accept and might be willing to deal with in agreement that it isn't right... but still it is a choice, not an attack. 

Seriously--"squashing a bug"? "Morons"? "Unable to hold a conversation"? Give me a fucking break. Where the hell do people get off saying crap like this? Getting over 30 is NOT an antidote to stupid, selfish, OR dull. In fact, getting older just makes all three of those things exponentially worse.

Who said these things?

Anyway. Given my personal experiences and my personal relationships? Sorry, Hib, but I would be an asshole of Biblical proportion if I did not talk back to this nonsense, and call it what it is: ugly, bigoted, and nine different shades of DUMB. My submissive has earned that much from me; I'm not going to let him twist in the wind while people basically call him worthless, stupid and weak in a public forum. He wouldn't allow anyone to talk about me that way, I see no reason that I shouldn't have his back as well.

No one called your submissive anything!  I wouldn't even say that about a younger person... and I don't think anyone said such things.  From what I know, most really respect your submissive. I know I do.

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ORIGINAL: Lockit

I am not sure that anything we said was trashy, racist or comparable to what you have said here.

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ORIGINAL: azjojoba

Moga -- your hour of writing was beautiful and I enjoyed reading it! 

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I happened to stumble upon marriage material and a soul mate in the package of a 22-year old (and no, he didn't want to have kids either) that was more mature than many of the 30-40+ year olds who were my peers at work.  There's something to be said for emotional intelligence, emotional maturity and the gift of perception combined with high practical intelligence, and I think a man can have this at any age.  People always looked at my man, even at age 22, and said he's an "old soul" - I don't know what that literally means, but I get the general idea, and I just know that I had the playfulness, sweet innocence and youth built into a person who also had an unbelievable amount of emotional maturity, capacity for learning and incredible empathy and social perception.  At 22 I was able to bring him to extremely socially stifling corporate affairs that had a previous boyfriend, MUCH senior than him, making a fool of me.  It has nothing to do with age, and so I see Shatki's point quite easily.

Of course, the point of this thread was more about the idea of "casual relationships" with men quite a deal EVEN younger, but the bottom line is I was seen as a cougar, already, when I took in a man 10 years younger than me right out of college and married his ass before anyone else could get their paws on him :)

Now he's over 30,a and I joke that I have to now find some more 20somethings to keep me fully satisfied.  Luckily his emotional maturity also includes an incredible compassion for understanding my -- quirks.

Akasha

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ORIGINAL: MoGa
I am not hearing where this has been typed. Maybe it was edited, before I got a chance to hear it?

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My point is that an age limitation is very much like a height limitation or a race limitation; a man cannot do anything to change his physical age, no matter how spotless his character

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ORIGINAL: MoGa
I choose not to take offense by it, because everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

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ORIGINAL: TranceTara
MissMorgan, as always, thank you. Your posts speak me and help me see deeper into myself.
You're more than welcome, Tara. I'm glad we're on the same page, so to speak, it's comforting to know I'm not 'alone' in how I think and conduct myself.

And thus I had just come out to her as a lesbian and a submissive. And, she loved it. lol 
That really is lovely to read. We often see threads started by people asking the million dollar question, "How can you tell if another person is xxxxxxx", I don't think it's anything other than a reactance on a subconscious level, our intuition making us jump up and stand to attention... Sometimes I've ignored it, to my regret, and as time has gone by I've pondered the 'what ifs'. The older I get the less likely I am to allow my reservations the general rule of dominance.

And after reading all these posts, I realize I was shutting out any possibility for myself by believing I was too old and because of health issues which I judged made me undesirable.
Tara, what is 'too old', too old to enjoy life? Too old to have the capacity to love and be loved? Where does that come from, hon? I'm not growing old 'disgracefully' as such, but I do have a zest for life, I care more for my mental/emotional wellbeing than I do other people's beliefs at how I should live. We're human beings, we are prone to over-complicating our lives to the point of unnecessary confusion. Fear is just a concept, it's only as valid as the importance you place upon it. What do we ultimately fear, rejection by another? If we close that door firmly we'll never allow ourselves any kind of opportunity to discover how rewarding life is when we allow others to share it with us. I've learned that the greatest incapacity is not our physical ailments and disabilities, but the psychological bonds we place on ourselves. We tend to be far more critical of ourselves and punish ourselves far more than others ever could. 

As I spoke with this woman, I started telling her I wanted someone over a certain age, then I had to change that and tell her it's not the age, but what's in the heart. My heart was short-circuiting that old tape. And, after seeing this thread I feel it is yet another message from the Universe that I need to get out of my own way for my own good. [:D]
When there is such a connection, it transcends age, gender, ethnicity, religious doctrines and just about any other confinement, including the physical ones. Positivity is the best wonderdrug there is and if we improve what is 'in there', chances are, we change what is 'out there', too.

And, by opening up I just may allow someone in that doesn't care about anything but what's in my heart and soul. A very valuable lesson indeed.I need not analyze.
Physical constraints are always taken into consideration by anyone, as they should be, but to many they just aren't an area of importance that governs a decision on a romantic level. I'm 45, I have COPD due to asthma and passive smoking but it's stable, I may not able to run a marathon anytime soon, but I refuse to allow it to keep me a prisoner in my home. I tore my achilles severely years ago, as a result, a bony spur grew under the achilles on my heel and I am sometimes crippled through pain. I have an operation to remove the achilles on 24th of March, saw off the bony spur and file it down, plus removal of the build up of scar tissue, then reattachment and a plaster cast for approx. five weeks or more. This operation will go one of two ways, either a complete success (but with a prospect of the spur regrowing in years to come) or I will be permanently crippled in that foot. I would rather take the risk than life with the 'what ifs'. My partner loves me, he's very supportive and I 'know' that if the latter condition is the outcome he's not going to run off due to the physical constraints that'll be placed on me... they won't dictate how my every day life will be lived.  

And as for age and maturity, well, I see hundreds of people a day. Some of the older men and women I come into contact with have no sense of humour, no respect for others and are downright rude. Then there are young adults who are true gentlemen and genteel ladies who are intelligent, wise, and have great wit indeed. *And* some have suffered greatly and understand about physical pain 24/7. Who am I to judge that someone younger could not embrace me for who I am? That was an eye opener.
I have friends of all ages, from all walks of life... it starts with a genuine interest in other people, Tara, that's how most friendships are formulated (I consider great lovers to be the greatest friends we could have b/c they see us in ways others don't), rather than by trying to get people interested in us.

*And, now I know I need to ask this woman out if for no other reason than to have made a new friend who has that most exquisite Northern California energy I love so much. Perhaps she loves picnics at the beach, being serenaded on the guitar and being pampered. lol Thanks ladies! [;)]
A picnic on the beach sounds divine! Ask away, I'll book my ticket... oh bugger, you didn't mean me?!? [:(] Here I was wondering what you would pack into that picnic, I love cucumber, and egg mayonnaise sandwiches, oh oh and scones, I adore scones. Seriously though, make it casual, invite for a picnic on the beach one lazy saturday or sunday afternoon and see where the sunshine and the breeze over the sea takes you both.

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ORIGINAL: aidan

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ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Sure, I am looking forward to the Watchmen movie.

Actually, Watchmen is more of a cultural touchstone for people in their 30s and 40s and 50s.

Just saying.

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you feel that people have the right to be rudely bigoted in public.

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ShaktiSama wrote: I'm summarizing LadyPact's post about the "extraordinary" young people on this forum that are the "exceptions to the rule" of a generalization which is extremely negative.

Sorry, but to me this is basically a remark about "special Jews" who are "not like the others". I've heard this same remark countless times about blacks, women, gays, whatever--fill in your group of choice who are generally bad while some "special" ones are ok.